It was a succinct yet accurate analysis of your post, to be fair.
Keir Starmer Labour Leader
- Thread starter Damien
- Start date
Starmer has pledged a zero tolerance approach to anti-semitism. Assuming RLB a) believes him and b) knows what zero tolerance actually means, she's pretty pretty daft to do what she did.
She probably thought it was the same as jezbollahs zero tolerance
I'll tell you what, why don't you try and use your words and tell me what your issues are. You might not agree with my take, but I'm pretty baffled by the accusation that there's 'mental gymnastics' on display in it, as, clearly, is another poster.
Exactly, and we can all argue until we're blue in the face about whether or not such an approach is correct or whether that post is anti-semitic or not, but RLB knows the climate of the party and knows that its a topic that should be addressed with the absolute upmost care. I'd be inclined to think she didn't read the article properly and may well have even missed that line, but it's sloppy, amateur stuff if she did. At any rate, it's a needless own goal from her and she's gone and poked a bear that she could have left well alone.
Starmer may also have been looking for a pretext to remove her and it might also represent a purge of left wing members of the party, too, and his reaction to it might have caused or deepened fractures within the party, which doesn't fundamentally change the fact there's a lack of political acumen on display from Long-Bailey who (at least according to her comments on it) seemed to want to stay in Starmer's cabinet.
There is no level of contrition that you can show the Isreal lobby that will satisfy them short of total acceptance of their murderous policies with regards to Palestinians.
RLB is a victim on this.
RLB is a victim on this.
I know virtually nothing of RLB & her history, so I've no bias either way.
Is it possible that she was so quick to fangirl over Maxine Peake that she didn't bother to read all of Peake's words?
Is it possible that she was so quick to fangirl over Maxine Peake that she didn't bother to read all of Peake's words?
RLB came to prominence by declaring she'll never be friends with the tories when she was first elected. It's more likely she just likes articles about how the tories are cnuts.
Just putting it out there... I got my last job ahead of someone that applied for it from an internal post.
They made my job tougher for three months... So I managed them elsewhere. No malice. But they were hampering me doing good work.
If that’s all it is then I’m cool with it.
They made my job tougher for three months... So I managed them elsewhere. No malice. But they were hampering me doing good work.
If that’s all it is then I’m cool with it.
I see what you mean but he’s given her a job, then sacked her, so a little different
He's given her a job and she's only making his more difficult with retweets like that. I think @NinjaFletch summarised it rather well.
Starmer resigned in 2016 as part of an orchestrated coup against Corbyn and he was later made Brexit secretary. At least this is exposing which side of the party is the one that actually has no intent of pursuing unity, in spite of the hysteria we read in the press about Trotskyist purges.
Thanks for the sharp analysis everyone. I hope that the thread on Israel here is taken down or at least renamed since the second part of its name refers to a people and a country who don't exist. Many of the comments portray Israel in a negative light, these comments might be well-documented but are obviously anti-semitic. This forum must show the same zero-tolerance that the party of labour shows when it kicks out its union-backed education secretary for retweeting an interview that had a line about the country's police. I also hope that anything about the Saudi bombing in Yemen is expunged because it is criticising the home of Islam selectively.
Are you kidding?
Are you kidding?
So you think there's nothing to be gained from criticising Israel?
Other parties are available
Looking forward to canvassing for Sir Keir at the next election? Hopefully he'll decide what his views on combating climate change are by the time you're out there trying to sell it to people.Other parties are available
You can look at the results - Corbyn and Bernie are losers, RLB is out, while Orban, Trump and Bolsanaro are in power.
There are neither votes nor structural support to be won from it in most western countries. And rightly so since it is anti-semitic.
Yes I read @NinjaFletch ’s post and it was good.
For me the crux is she was given the opportunity to redact it and didn’t (reportedly). Knowing the sensitivity of the issue she should have bailed on the tweet there and then rather than leave herself open to suggestion
Criticising the Israeli Government is not Anti-Semitic.
I pretty much gave up when I read the climate change comments. It's not a party that represents my views nor do I think it has any chance of improving things at all - not even damage limitation. It's bad and the people who support it are bad.
If only we could all be as enlightened as you.
Other parties are available
Indeed, so good luck to Starmer getting a majority at the next election.
Caring about climate change might not be politically convenient, so we're thinking we might just let the world burn.
It's not defensible.
EDIT - Also you're every bit as self-righteous as me.
Went from being described by Sir Keir as the most important issue facing the planet to 'see you in 4-5 years' and all it took was him winning the leadership.
I just remembered that Gove displayed on his shelf a book by a holocaust denier. Now, Irving is no Charles Dickens when it comes to anti-semitism, but I hope Starmer bravely reminds the public about this scandal from a member of the cabinet. Since of course everything is motivated by a sincere dislike of anti-semitism.
Folk of a certain leaning during Corbyn years are desperate to take a side on on this and the mental gymnastics are poor. As i said before if you don't like RLB and glad she's gone then fine just say it nothing wrong with that but false justifications because you feel the need to take sides undermines your opinions on any issue.
Twitter commenters with nice long threads seem to be reaching for the angle of "well blaming Jews is a trope and tropes are anti-semitic". That's the extent of the logic here and it's backing everyone into a corner that criticising Israel is always just part of the wider trope against jews. If you're from the left that is.
RLB shouldn't be tweeting anything with a mention of Israel so i have no sympathy for her but Starmer has shot himself in the foot with this.
There's a lot of tech articles to do with spying and privacy snooping that often reference Israel, i suspect they'll now be identified as anti-semitic.
Twitter commenters with nice long threads seem to be reaching for the angle of "well blaming Jews is a trope and tropes are anti-semitic". That's the extent of the logic here and it's backing everyone into a corner that criticising Israel is always just part of the wider trope against jews. If you're from the left that is.
RLB shouldn't be tweeting anything with a mention of Israel so i have no sympathy for her but Starmer has shot himself in the foot with this.
There's a lot of tech articles to do with spying and privacy snooping that often reference Israel, i suspect they'll now be identified as anti-semitic.
Realistically do you think Starmer could have done much else? If he’d have stuck with RLB this story would have only gained further traction and any trust he has managed to rebuild within the Jewish community would have been lost.
RLB is an idiot for reading that article and endorsing it after the last 5 years, like you say she shouldn’t have touched it with a bargepole. She ultimately forced Starmer’s hand and he had to make a decision.
I'm not sure it would have as no one really knew it had happened until she was sacked and from what i gather it was her apology that started to trigger the backlash.
Your argument is reasonable though and it could have escalated so assuming thats the case he would have had to take action. Is there a way he could have sacked her without making it seem unreasonable and escalate the divide? I think it should be within his grasp to do so. Could he have instead put her under quick investigation and then put out strong apology and highlighted the lesson to be learned without sacking her or calling this out as anti-semtism? Of course.
I'm very much behind Starmer and i think his quiet opposition in favour of being the competent adult in waiting approach is valid. I'm really disappointed in how he's failing to unite the party though and it already seems like he's not a unity leader and we desperately needed one.
While the move seems harsh in isolation, I think Labour followers across the spectrum need to remember;
- RLB was present throughout the last shadow cabinet and its constant reminder of duty against anti semitism. She should have known better than to get caught anywhere near this
- Keir needs to bring back to the party lost centrists, as these are the voters that are most fluid with other readily made parties to defect to. Some support may be lost on the far left, however, realistically, they have no other home to go to, so will likely be back supporting Labour in future elections.
- Keir needs to keep the pressure on when it comes to showing the contrast of what good leadership looks like, compared to Boris's inability to act on Jenrick and Cummings. He likes doing this in more subtle moves like this one, rather than shouting obvious criticism straight to the opposition. Again, showing a move away from Corbyn, who inarguably alienated a lot of the voters in Dec (you can blame the media etc, but it was a fact come 12th Dec).
Let's let Keir play the long game here.
- RLB was present throughout the last shadow cabinet and its constant reminder of duty against anti semitism. She should have known better than to get caught anywhere near this
- Keir needs to bring back to the party lost centrists, as these are the voters that are most fluid with other readily made parties to defect to. Some support may be lost on the far left, however, realistically, they have no other home to go to, so will likely be back supporting Labour in future elections.
- Keir needs to keep the pressure on when it comes to showing the contrast of what good leadership looks like, compared to Boris's inability to act on Jenrick and Cummings. He likes doing this in more subtle moves like this one, rather than shouting obvious criticism straight to the opposition. Again, showing a move away from Corbyn, who inarguably alienated a lot of the voters in Dec (you can blame the media etc, but it was a fact come 12th Dec).
Let's let Keir play the long game here.
Just to be clear, are you saying that you consider any criticism of the government of Israel as anti semitic?
Loads of people saying that criticising Israel isn’t anti-semitic. It isn’t. However blaming Israel for the death of George Floyd is, as it’s completely untrue. No one taught Derek Chauvin to kneel on a manacled black man for eight and a half minutes so why even bring Israel into it?
Starmer has done the right thing. In a swoop he has shown decisiveness, in contrast to the dithering Johnson who didn’t sack Cummings and isn’t sacking Jenrick any time soon.
And to be clear - RLB has been sacked for being an idiot, not an anti-semite. Shadow Ed Sec should be capable of comprehension as a minimum.
This is a risky assumption. Some Labour "centrists" have already worked towards sabotaging 2 elections for Labour. This strategy could sabotage a third if unity is not achieved.
A victim of her own incompetence perhaps...
Good luck with that.
I think your right - I think labour wont be able to be a broad enough church to house red tory blairite scum and jezbollah fanatics ... one of them will have to go and form a new party
close the door on the way out
I don't know too much about it but it seems refreshingly principled despite being a bit of an overreaction. This is what should be happening with the Torys basically weekly but they've taken on the Trump deny and deflect until it goes away method.
The last 5 years has been filled with people saying they're not going to vote for a Labour party because of who the leader is, but suddenly the idea is beyond comprehension?
Hell, Sir Keir's been courting one of them, who went as far as canvassing for another party twice, through the press since he announced his leadership.