I mean, even Germany have admitted that in the court case at the ICJ. There’s no insinuation about it.
Keir Starmer Labour Leader
- Thread starter Damien
- Start date
What a nonsensical post.
It's hilarious what lies people will tell to absolve themselves of any blame isn't it. It's the people who voted for Labour in 2017 and 2019 (and forever) that are to blame for this Tory shitshow of the last 14 years and not those that voted elsewhere and in many cases actively for it. Amazing.
Yeah I probably will hold my nose and vote for Labour in this election after all is said and done because even though this form of democracy stinks I guess I'm just a bigger person than those who couldn't vote Labour because the full might of the uk establishment said Corbyn was an anti-Semite, or a threat to our national security or whatever other bullshit reason they trotted out that day. You're welcome.
I disagree with the erosion of protest rights but you're a clown if you think this comparable to what the Tories have threatened
You get a choice between two. You self admittedly want the Tories to win knowing what they are. There's no reasoning with you.
So why do you want someone who you've decided chose the Tories for five more years to run the economy again?I disagree with the erosion of protest rights but you're a clown if you think this comparable to what the Tories have threatened
You get a choice between two. You self admittedly want the Tories to win knowing what they are. There's no reasoning with you.
Literally no idea what this is supposed to mean
You've decided Raven has chosen the Tories because they've determined Starmer would be much worse long term. Rachel Reeves is pleased we've not had a Labour government since 2019, because she believes Corbyn would have been much worse long term.
One gets your ire, the other you want running the economic policy of the country. Can you run us through that logic?
That's just a start. Starmer's labour has also destroyed inner party democracy, parachuting his preferred candidates into seats that they have no business being in. Transferred power from labour members to a the bureaucrats. Empowered psychopaths like Luke Akehurst. Kicked out anyone even vaguely left wing.I disagree with the erosion of protest rights but you're a clown if you think this comparable to what the Tories have threatened
You get a choice between two. You self admittedly want the Tories to win knowing what they are. There's no reasoning with you.
Then you have Labour Together who took 700 grand in undeclared donations between 2017 and 2023, which is already corruption but just gives us a taste of what they'll be capable of when they have the countries finances in their hands. You're utterly delusional if you think this version of Labour is going to improve anything for anyone.
Edit: I forgot all about Epstein's best friend, Mandelson, being brought back in to advise.
It’s a different quote.
I suspect Raven will vote for another party but they have actually said they want to Tories to win for the short term pain of losing a centrist Labour party.
i expect that Labour are aware of the difficulties that the country is in financially. They are politically squeezed on taxes and financially squeezed on spending between borrowing when we've seen the market response and printing more money at a time of inflation.
if her view is that Corbyn would have taken reckless borrowing decisions that's her view.
Labour are not centrist, they are to the right of Biden and Cameron.
I mean you're arguing semantics there really.
https://labour.org.uk/updates/stories/10-labour-policies-to-change-britain/
They do have centrist policies. The NHS thing. That's using private capacity with public funding, as far as I can tell, which is still free at point of use. Temporary. I don't believe they'll be allowed to implement a dead neoliberal ideology. The market shat that out when Truss had five seconds as PM. They'll follow a British version of Biden-nomics. The market will dictate it.
The rhetoric, however, is absolutely right of Biden, Cameron, and even Blair.
Some centrist policies, some very rightwing policies. For me, they're right around Theresa May's Tories.
https://labour.org.uk/updates/stories/10-labour-policies-to-change-britain/
They do have centrist policies. The NHS thing. That's using private capacity with public funding, as far as I can tell, which is still free at point of use. Temporary. I don't believe they'll be allowed to implement a dead neoliberal ideology. The market shat that out when Truss had five seconds as PM.
The rhetoric, however, is absolutely right of Biden, Cameron, and even Blair.
I firmly believe Israel is committing genocide in Gaza and their whole operation is appalling. But I don’t believe the Germans are supporting because of the holocaust. That’s why the second quote was stated. Should they be supporting Israel at all, absolutely not.
The BBC was advertising hate for people drowning on boats about two years ago. I cited it elsewhere. That's the UK unfortunately after 15 years of Tory shite austerity-nomics.
Labour, to me, are avoiding the argument rather than engaging on many issues. The needle moved which allows them to get away with it. They're basically avoiding culture wars and inciting targeted culture wars for a right-wing propagandized post-Tory Britain.
How would you explain their bizarrely apologetic stance?
I can’t, it’s stupid.
Why are you so sure it's not historic guilt that's driving their stance?
Perhaps "punishing" is too strong a word but they've just basically said that supporting Israel overrides anything else morally or legally due to their history with the Jewish people which as far as I can tell is what Jones was saying the other week even if he minced his words up a bit.
That would be fine but they haven't avoided being pulled into culture wars, they've actively sided with the Tories.
Because the second quote infers that towards general policy in the Middle East and why would mass murder be a policy for more mass murder. Anyway probably for the Israel thread rather than here. Maybe I’m inferring wrong.
Seems from the statement to the ICJ Germany is explicitly stating the unconditional Israel support is directly due to responsibility for the Holocaust, unless I'm misunderstanding what was said.
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Oh wow the radical leftists would rather inflict short term pain on the British people than have a Starmer government!
Well thankfully the current Labour leadership understands when it gets into power there will be no magic money tree to spend on social programs. Instead the British people will need to tighten their belts for now so we can save for the future!
Well thankfully the current Labour leadership understands when it gets into power there will be no magic money tree to spend on social programs. Instead the British people will need to tighten their belts for now so we can save for the future!
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Once Brexit starts bearing fruit, we will be able to reduce the tax burden on companies.
It's not short term pain when it's people the folks on here like doing it. It's erm... pragmatism. Or something.
It’s worries me that Reeves might actually hold this view.
Pretty much. Someone yesterday on here said they didn’t care how many bribes Streeting takes because he is a good guy for some reason. People developing parasocial relationships for right wing labour MP’s is something I didn’t see coming.
What is the UK equivalent of a Bernie Bro?
Imagine believing that Wes Fecking Streeting is one of the good guys
It’s worries me that Reeves might actually hold this view.
Pretty much. Someone yesterday on here said they didn’t care how many bribes Streeting takes because he is a good guy for some reason. People developing parasocial relationships for right wing labour MP’s is something I didn’t see coming.
So taken by Starmerism, that you're even outsourcing your attempts at insults to a focus group.
If you are anti-Tory and don't vote for labour in a target seat or whichever party is the most viable alternative in a more ropey one then you deserve to be insulted.
Oh I see. Yeah, I'm not anti-Tory, I'm anti-Tory policy.
This must be what the confusion is coming from. Obviously you come at this from a completely different angle, but other people don't lose interest in policies being shit when it's someone else saying it, rather than someone who's face they don't like.
Classic Starm trooper.
How's having Corbyn leading Labour gone for you? being against Tory policies I suspect you are very happy with the results yeah
I would make 2 recommendations.
1 don't get your news from rage baiters on Twitter and 2 listen to Alistair Campbell talking about running elections in the UK as the Labour party. His take on how they had to be conservative in 1997 because of the media and the economic situation is really quite thought provoking and he points out the economy is far worse now..
Maggie Thatcher said that her greatest ever achievement was Tony Blair and new labour. Is there any reason you're promoting that ghoul, Campbell?
I'll pass on taking life lessons from a complete fecking cnut like Campbell, thanks. Did you ask him how happy he is with the Tory government he backed when telling people to vote Lib Dem in 2019, what with anyone who doesn't vote Labour regardless being a fan of the Tories and all that, or once again is it just no marks on a forum that face your ire, rather than people you hold in high regard?
Also playing the 'the media made us do it' card in defence of a government whose prime minister is literally godfather to one of Rupert Murdoch's shitty little sequels is excellent stuff.
Because he explained the political situation in the UK.
You have to run as a centrist Labour party in order to get into power because the electorate are naturally sceptical and revert to the conservatives in the absence of 'sensible' alternative.
You then have to earn room in your budget for the progressive activities you want to fund.
You don't have to like him to understand that he knows how to get a winning Labour election strategy...