Fred is not a DM. Without Fred we would not have won some games. His running and energy alone gets our team going. Matic is our DM.
Kante or Fred?
- Thread starter ThinkTank@Cafe
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If Kante was on our team we'd be second in the league.
Energizer Fred! 
Fred has such a good line splitting forward pass though, beyond the work rate, I love that about him. He's only had like half a season of goodness though and Kante has been doing it for Chelsea, Leicester and France for a while now, so just based on that I'd probably pick Kante.
this Kante debate is over and should be put to bed at this point. Fred is the truth
maybe we can come back and revisit the debate when Kante starts passing longer than 10 yards for starters. theres a reason why he has been mostly average and exposed in a advanced role for 2 managers that play with the ball
This season, it's Fred but at their best, Kante is better. However we have to appreciate what we have and Fred has turned into a very good footballer for us
That would be up there with Phil Jones taking corners.
Fred this season > Kante of this season and maybe last season
Kante since he joined PL till 2018 was much better than Fred this season.
Kante since he joined PL till 2018 was much better than Fred this season.
The most pertinent question is what do you think is ironic?
Fred is more naturally talented then both Kante and Herrera imo. Needs to keep up the good work and there are a couple of levels he can still reach.
Not me. And Kante over Fred.
By being injured?
Nonsense. Luke Shaw won player of the year when he was half the player he is now. But that still won't win him POTY this season as Fred or Bruno or Maguire or Rashford will win it. He won it because the rest of the team were a car crash that season, and not because he was World class. Fred on current form is twice the player Herrera ever was for us.
At the his current moment I’d much rather have Fred. He’s turning into a fantastic player and I can’t help but think there’s more improvement to come from him.
He’s bloody brilliant at the minute and he’s having a very consistent season, he’s pretty reliable at the minute. Obviously that can change but I’m not seeing any signs of anything to suggest his current form is a fluke.
He’s bloody brilliant at the minute and he’s having a very consistent season, he’s pretty reliable at the minute. Obviously that can change but I’m not seeing any signs of anything to suggest his current form is a fluke.
Here are our average positions against City.
Fred is in fact very slightly deeper than Matic in this game. Both are deep and spend more time in their own half.
They both play DM, but having Matic next to him and performing like he did against City obviously helps cover Fred's physical and defensive weakness
Here we are against Everton
This time Matic is deeper than Fred, but both are still deep and not pushing past the halfway line on average. Contrast that with Bruno Fernandes and McTominay who are joining the attacking players with their average position.
We usually play with 2 DMs, that was the case last season with Ander and Matic and has continued this season.
Here we are against Watford
Once again Fred and Matic are relatively similar in their average position with Fred very slightly deeper
So there you have it, our last 3 premier league games all show that Fred is in a very similar position to Matic, the same as Ander's average positions showed that he was in a very similar position to Matic last season. 2 DMs
Let’s not get ahead of ourselves. Fred will have to perform like he has been doing for much more than 3/4 of a season to be in the same bracket as Kante.
Like others have mentioned, they are similar but not quite the same.
I think he excels when he has Matic or McTominay rather than pogba too. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that he performs better when Pogba is missing; he can track players down without having to worry too much about what’s behind him
Like others have mentioned, they are similar but not quite the same.
I think he excels when he has Matic or McTominay rather than pogba too. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that he performs better when Pogba is missing; he can track players down without having to worry too much about what’s behind him
“the expression of one's meaning by using language that normally signifies the opposite, typically for humorous or emphatic effect.”
The posts I mentioned were ironic.
By being average when playing I'd imagine.
There isn’t much between them. I can’t understate the difference in what being part of winning teams and being part of a team considered fo be underperforming does for the reputations of individual players though. It’s one of my biggest frustrations with football, the inability to assess a player objectively outside of the context of his team’s success or lack of.
At risk of being pedantic, Fred is not a defensive midfielder., He is a box to box midfielder.Here are our average positions against City.
Fred is in fact very slightly deeper than Matic in this game. Both are deep and spend more time in their own half.
They both play DM, but having Matic next to him and performing like he did against City obviously helps cover Fred's physical and defensive weakness
Here we are against Everton
This time Matic is deeper than Fred, but both are still deep and not pushing past the halfway line on average. Contrast that with Bruno Fernandes and McTominay who are joining the attacking players with their average position.
We usually play with 2 DMs, that was the case last season with Ander and Matic and has continued this season.
Here we are against Watford
Once again Fred and Matic are relatively similar in their average position with Fred very slightly deeper
So there you have it, our last 3 premier league games all show that Fred is in a very similar position to Matic, the same as Ander's average positions showed that he was in a very similar position to Matic last season. 2 DMs
That's the reason his average position tends to be towards the half way line and doesn't often change despite different opposition.
There's a discernable difference between a defensive mid (Makelele) to a box to box engine (viera)
Could Kante be on the decline? Running is such a big part of his game, so losing half a yard of pace due to injury and getting older would make him so much less useful.
I think he's been on the decline since last season.
This basically Herrera vs Kante 2.0
Can you explain how? I’m really not seeing any irony.
I re-read the posts I referred to for you, Pexbo. And looks you are right
It was my initial perception. The posters were actually supporting Fred. Thanks for being so pedantic. Is pedantic a good word?I'm sorry. I love Fred. But Kante is a Roy Keane.
I'd love to see a midfield two of Kante and Fred in an old school 4-4-2.
Flanked by say a midfielder like De Bruyne or Bernardo Silva on one side, and a Sterling/Mane/Sane/Salah on the other.
Flanked by say a midfielder like De Bruyne or Bernardo Silva on one side, and a Sterling/Mane/Sane/Salah on the other.
Some short memories on here 
I re-read the posts I referred to for you, Pexbo. And looks you are right
It's the perfect word.
If that was true his average position would be further forward than a DM. It isnt.
He goes box to box but he does it from a DM position. He goes far forward but he also goes far back, thats why his average position is level with Matic.
Matic also gets forward himself. Sometimes he even gets caught up trying to do too much himself going on a dribble instead of using teamplay.
Strange question tbh. They're two very different types of player.
Kante is a natural DM and his best attributes are defensive wise like anticipation, reading the game, acceleration and tackling. Kante is literally a smaller and faster version of Makelélé imo.
While Fred is a natural B2B and his best attributes are more attacking wise like dribbling, technique, forward passing, longshot, finishing. In defensive duties his job is usually chasing the ball rather than to anticipate and intercept the play like a proper DM.
The only thing they have in common is their phenomenal work rate, stamina and both very fast for a midfielder.
Both could work really well together in our current tactic imo. It's rather Kante or Matic I think.
Kante is a natural DM and his best attributes are defensive wise like anticipation, reading the game, acceleration and tackling. Kante is literally a smaller and faster version of Makelélé imo.
While Fred is a natural B2B and his best attributes are more attacking wise like dribbling, technique, forward passing, longshot, finishing. In defensive duties his job is usually chasing the ball rather than to anticipate and intercept the play like a proper DM.
The only thing they have in common is their phenomenal work rate, stamina and both very fast for a midfielder.
Both could work really well together in our current tactic imo. It's rather Kante or Matic I think.
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Kante and Fred are 2 different style. Me No, because we need someone who can pass and dictate game, and help defensively, hence Fred is a better choice. Swapping Matic for Kante would be a more acceptable choice, but then I won't want Jorginho, too complicated for our style.
The fact that the question is even being asked is a testament to the improvement shown by Fred.
Hopefully that improvement continues.
Goes to show that moving to The Premier League takes time for some players. His confidence is up, he's more comfortable with the pace and expectations of the game and he's playing to his strengths.
Let's see what happens!
Hopefully that improvement continues.
Goes to show that moving to The Premier League takes time for some players. His confidence is up, he's more comfortable with the pace and expectations of the game and he's playing to his strengths.
Let's see what happens!
Kante easily
He's not been himself for a while to be fair, but he's been messed around a fair bit. Fred has been playing well, but he's no Kante.
He's not been himself for a while to be fair, but he's been messed around a fair bit. Fred has been playing well, but he's no Kante.
Well said, you are only as good as your last few games. The question was not who was better in their prime, its who is better now. Simple answer = Fred.
Kante didn't have a pre season this season and he's been in and out of the team all season with injuries, he hasn't really had a chance to build momentum with games
He hasn't really had any consistent game time this season due to niggling injuries.
He came into the season with an injury and had no pre season either
Smalling & Herrera would still be very useful options for us. Don’t forget we’ve started games this season with Lingard & Pereira in midfield.
You only have to look at their stats to see they are completely different players. Kante excels in defensive areas whereas Fred has the upper hand in offensive stats. Would be good together actually.
Imagine the energy.
Imagine the energy.
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