Kai Havertz

[Blackwidow]

Bayern rarely pay big money anyway, they wait for their targets to run down the contract then take them for a steal.

Like any team that works economically they try to make bargains. Lewandowsky was an exception as he wanted to transfer to Bayern already 2 years/a year before and Dortmund did not sell to Bayern. But if Bayern needs a player they like every team needs that player now and not later - and to replace a player that has the quality of a starting player or even is better costs a lot! And often not to be found in Germany...

I do not think that Bayern would have gotten players like Rode, Rudy or Kirchhoff or even Goretzka (we had with Vidal, Tolisso, Sanches already 3 similar players) if they would not have been for free. But Bayern is not the only team in Germany that takes advantage of free transfers or cheap transfer clauses.

Neuer, Gomez, Gustavo were no bargains.

But yes, the starting eleven of Bayern was pretty cheap.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

Been an admirer for a while and I’ll admit part of the reason I wasn’t keen on Bruno was I knew that move would rule out any future move for Kai Havertz. You’ve got to wonder who will be in for him as honestly I can’t see him staying there much longer. The Pandemic might even be a bit of a blessing in disguise for Leverkusen given probably not many will be able to shell out the 80mil + I would imagine it will cost to get him.

Then if he does maybe go to Bayern of all places the season after. Well that has the looks of some team they are building if they get Sanè this uocoming window.

 

[ROFLUTION]

He's been playing up top lately, right?

Would he be able to play that role regularly and not clash with Bruno's position?

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

Has there ever been a more obvious transfer than Havertz to Bayern?

 

[Acrobat7]

Has there ever been a more obvious transfer than Havertz to Bayern?

Only if he wants to wait a year. Can’t see Bayern spending on Sané and Havertz. Maybe if they offload Tolisso and Martinez. Havertz also somewhat plays the „Müller“ role.

 

[ForEverEleven]

Has there ever been a more obvious transfer than Havertz to Bayern?

It´s not that obvious. I believe Bayern ideally want to sign him but their main focus is Sané, that has been made clear since last year and in the current climate I doubt they would pay 2 huge fees in one window. Apart from that, Bayerns front 3 would be Sane, Gnabry and Lewandowski which probably leaves Müller dropping back into a midfield role, where you also have Thiago, Kimmich and Goretzka who all want guaranteed playing time. I personally don´t really see Bayern selling or benching one of them for Havertz.
Havertz himself said several times that he could move abroad and Leverkusen ideally don´t want to sell him to a national opponent. The only way I see Bayern buying him is Havertz saying that he only wants to go there and Bayern splashing the cash. And both possibilities atm seem unlikely to me.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

I know we won’t get him but imagine having him and Sancho... we won’t but.... god....

 

[Mylock]

I know we won’t get him but imagine having him and Sancho... we won’t but.... god....

He's some player, the only way I could see him coming is if Pogba leaves. Signing Havertz and Sancho would be a game-changer. It would be just like singining a Rooney and Ronaldo. I see Havertz turning into midfield playmaker, he seems to have it all. I see the papers have us as the favourite to sign him, just clickbait. I would say there is a 10 % chance of us signing him at the moment.

 

[Josh 76]

He's some player, the only way i could see him coming is if Pogba leaves. Signing Havertz and Sancho would be a game-changer. Just like singining a Rooney and Ronaldo.

Is he that good?

 

[Zehner]

Like any team that works economically they try to make bargains. Lewandowsky was an exception as he wanted to transfer to Bayern already 2 years/a year before and Dortmund did not sell to Bayern. But if Bayern needs a player they like every team needs that player now and not later - and to replace a player that has the quality of a starting player or even is better costs a lot! And often not to be found in Germany...

I do not think that Bayern would have gotten players like Rode, Rudy or Kirchhoff or even Goretzka (we had with Vidal, Tolisso, Sanches already 3 similar players) if they would not have been for free. But Bayern is not the only team in Germany that takes advantage of free transfers or cheap transfer clauses.

Neuer, Gomez, Gustavo were no bargains.

But yes, the starting eleven of Bayern was pretty cheap.

"Try to make bargains" is a nice way of putting it. Bayern essentially exploits their market position and at least to a certain degree the naivety of young German players to sign footballers for cheap they don't even have a place for quite often. And then they have the audacity to suggest that the Bundesliga should be thankful that they represent the country so well in the CL. I mean, it's not against the rules or anything, it's simply a dirty way of playing your cards that won't make you many friends. You essentially play rough in order to buy assets from your domestic competitors for way less than they would be worth in an open uaction. And that obviously prevents or at least hinders other German clubs' international competitiveness. Really a great international representative of the Bundesliga, the FC Bayern.

And it's also a practice that not many top clubs use. Most of them couldn't even use them if they wanted to. This wouldn't work in La Liga, the EPL or the Serie A.

 

[Mylock]

Is he that good?

The best young talent to come out of Germany in a long time seems to be a complete player. He passes like Ozil, a great awareness of what's happening around him, Brilliant finisher, mentally very strong for one so young, equally as talented as Sancho who is going to be a star for the next 10 years. I spend 6 months working in Germany and saw Havertz play frequently live and can say his movement is amazing, so smart for one so young. He will be the next great midfield General, dictating play from midfield, able to beat the press, similar type of play to Zidane.

 

[NoPace]

The best young talent to come out of Germany in a long time seems to be a complete player. He passes like Ozil, a great awareness of what's happening around him, Brilliant finisher, mentally very strong for one so young, equally as talented as Sancho who is going to be a star for the next 10 years. I spend 6 months working in Germany and saw Havertz play frequently live and can say his movement is amazing, so smart for one so young. He will be the next great midfield General, dictating play from midfield, able to beat the press, similar type of play to Zidane.

I've only seen him 5 or 6 times, but his performance against Borussia MG in the first game back was incredible. Best false 9 game I think I've seen since Messi played there, unless I'm forgetting someone. If he stays there, a playmaker of his quality who has the height and desire to score goals is also sort of reminiscent of Zlatan but hungrier and more versatile. Statistically, 28 in 60 his last 2 years in the league, most as a #10, is just an incredible return for his age, solidly ahead of even a phenom like Rooney (double Zlatan in a tougher league for that matter) at the same time.

Maybe Di Stefano is the right comparison? Scored 3 in 4 basically for Madrid but an all-around midfielder.

I love Sancho but I think Havertz is the only player who I could see going for more money than Mbappe and it not being insane. Like let's say he's Frank Lampard but a cleverer passer and a bigger aerial threat and so is getting 20 league goals from midfield instead of 11 like Lampard did for 13 years at Chelsea. How many hundreds of millions is that worth? Is that worth more than Mbappe getting 70 goals in 50 games a year? I have no idea.

 

[sp_107]

Where he will play ? with SMT/Pogba/Bruno in midfield Sancho on right / Kai on left and Rashford as a CF ? Front 6 of this looks amazing though.

if Pogba staying then adding just Sancho would greatly change the team dynamics.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

He's some player, the only way I could see him coming is if Pogba leaves. Signing Havertz and Sancho would be a game-changer. It would be just like singining a Rooney and Ronaldo. I see Havertz turning into midfield playmaker, he seems to have it all. I see the papers have us as the favourite to sign him, just clickbait. I would say there is a 10 % chance of us signing him at the moment.

I don’t think we stand a chance unfortunately but he’s more talented than I think I initially gave him credit for.

A double signing like that would have those kinds of feelings re-emerge!

He’s got more to his all round attacking game that really surprises me so I wouldn’t put it past him being a false 9 somewhere either. I think 10% is generous haha I wish it were more!

Is he that good?

In short yes.

I thought a lot of it was hype but I’m finding it very hard to come up with a solid criticism of his all round game which you can often find with young players that they lack something (often decision making which is always a huge indicator of success IMO) but honestly he seems to have everything you’d want from an attack minded midfielder and I agree with the above poster that he’s put in one of the best false 9 performances I’ve seen in recent memory.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

Prefer if we get him than Sancho for RW.

But Sancho seems more likely to stay with us longer.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

Prefer if we get him than Sancho for RW.

But Sancho seems more likely to stay with us longer.

Why would you prefer him?
Do you mean playing Havertz at RW or just instead of signing Sancho?

 

[golden_blunder]

Is he more like a lanky Paul scholes? You know the young one who started as a striker/no 10 and got deeper as he got older

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

Muller regen.

 

[-Supreme-]

How effective he is on the right wing? He would be a good alternative to Sancho and I personally prefer a left footed player on our right side

 

[Bebestation]

Personally I'd be okay without Sancho if we get him to play as our false 9.

Rashford and Greenwood should play as our forwards, very narrow but wider only to receive the ball on the counter.

Havertz is a false 9 playing inbetween them. Martial can compete with him and when he does, Havertz has the ability to start at the RF role off Greenwood.

Havertz isnt a RW but I think he can play RF better. None of our wingers should be playing like wingers anyway - these are the games when Greenwood gets too easy to defend against and too far away from goal.

I doubt it will happen but boy, a left footed player capable of playing false 9 and RF even cover RM, CAM and CM is just too good to be true.

 

[AKDevil]

The best young talent to come out of Germany in a long time seems to be a complete player. He passes like Ozil, a great awareness of what's happening around him, Brilliant finisher, mentally very strong for one so young, equally as talented as Sancho who is going to be a star for the next 10 years. I spend 6 months working in Germany and saw Havertz play frequently live and can say his movement is amazing, so smart for one so young. He will be the next great midfield General, dictating play from midfield, able to beat the press, similar type of play to Zidane.

ok, I didn’t want to say it but seeing as you have maybe I’m not so mad after all. Zidane was who he reminds me of. Makes the game look easy and like it’s being played at his pace. At the same time though, looks like he can play in multiple positions.

 

[andersj]

I might be wrong, but it appears to be an opportunity here. Leverkusen is open to sell, timing is wrong for Bayern. Real Madrid, Man City, Barcelona, Liverpool and Chelsea probably not interested due to what they need. Juve has other issues. When was there a chance to get such a huge talent without competition?

At the same time, he has a lot of qualities we lack. Left footed attacker. Aerial threat. And overall a special talent. Hope we do not let it go to waist and pay over the top for Sancho.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

I might be wrong, but it appears to be an opportunity here. Leverkusen is open to sell, timing is wrong for Bayern. Real Madrid, Man City, Barcelona, Liverpool and Chelsea probably not interested due to what they need. Juve has other issues. When was there a chance to get such a huge talent without competition?

At the same time, he has a lot of qualities we lack. Left footed attacker. Aerial threat. And overall a special talent. Hope we do not let it go to waist and pay over the top for Sancho.

Doubt we're his first or second or third choice. Asides from that I don't think we want him or should spend money on him

 

[Josh 76]

Doubt we're his first or second or third choice. Asides from that I don't think we want him or should spend money on him

If he's as good as people are making out, then you have to get him and worry about how he fits in the team after.
These players don't come round often. Plus it stops your rivals getting stronger.

 

[sun_tzu]

I might be wrong, but it appears to be an opportunity here. Leverkusen is open to sell, timing is wrong for Bayern. Real Madrid, Man City, Barcelona, Liverpool and Chelsea probably not interested due to what they need. Juve has other issues. When was there a chance to get such a huge talent without competition?

At the same time, he has a lot of qualities we lack. Left footed attacker. Aerial threat. And overall a special talent. Hope we do not let it go to waist and pay over the top for Sancho.

If we hadn't brought Bruno then perhaps ... and Bayern certainly seem interested (plus not taking the option on Couthino they have space in the squad and wage capacity)... Cant see why Liverpool and Barca wouldn't be interested (and they have CL football)

 

[andersj]

Doubt we're his first or second or third choice. Asides from that I don't think we want him or should spend money on him

Part of the point, he do not have that many choices. And if he is looking to play abroad, Man Utd is always interesting for anyone.

And I disagree strongly that we should not spend money on him (if we can). Such a rare talent.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Is he more like a lanky Paul scholes? You know the young one who started as a striker/no 10 and got deeper as he got older

Not sure about that, he's more effective closer to the box IMO.

Maybe he will develop that side but I feel he will become more of a striker similar to a late stage Cristiano. They've got similar builds and he has a good sense of timing and movement to get chances in the box. Good in the air also.

Personally while he's talented he's not a player we need with Fernandes here unless we turn him into a striker.

How effective he is on the right wing? He would be a good alternative to Sancho and I personally prefer a left footed player on our right side

He's not a winger at all.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

If he's as good as people are making out, then you have to get him and worry about how he fits in the team after.
These players don't come round often. Plus it stops your rivals getting stronger.

I'm all for it if we have a limitless budget but we don't. We also have holes in the squad that Havertz can't fix and we should focus on fixing them first. If we didn't sign Bruno or played a false 9 then Havertz makes sense. Right now all the positions he can play are covered by good players

 

[hasanejaz88]

I mean I love Havertz a lot but I think he's being a tad bit overrated here. He's been in great form recently but at the start he wasn't great.

Seeing guys like Kroos, Ozil and Gotze coming through, I'm not as convinced of his talent as much as I was of them when I first saw them as youngsters. Maybe I've just become more cynical lately.

I would love as much as anyone else for him to be the absolute brilliant star people are claiming him to be, as a Germany fan, but I would clamp down a bit on the comparisons with other greats.

I loved him last season, but this season he just seems a bit off the boil to me, even in his great form lately I think he can do better.

 

[DWelbz19]

I mean I love Havertz a lot but I think he's being a tad bit overrated here. He's been in great form recently but at the start he wasn't great.

Seeing guys like Kroos, Ozil and Gotze coming through, I'm not as convinced of his talent as much as I was of them when I first saw them as youngsters. Maybe I've just become more cynical lately.

I would love as much as anyone else for him to be the absolute brilliant star people are claiming him to be, as a Germany fan, but I would clamp down a bit on the comparisons with other greats.

I loved him last season, but this season he just seems a bit off the boil to me, even in his great form lately I think he can do better.

In the few Bundesliga games/highlights I’ve seen post COVID19 — sort of inclined to agree. He’s extremely versatile and his stats are fantastic, but I do get the impression he’s a tier below the Kroos/Ozil level.

I don’t know how people will take this comparison but he seems comparable to Dele Alli (at least a season or two ago) — a physically strong no.10 who is surprisingly impressive in the air with strong technical ability to match. Very very strong numbers in G+A for their ages respectively. I’d say Havertz seems more natural playing in multiple positions, but it’s hard to quantify if that’s more down to how good of a tactical tinker Bosz is with his tactics.

 

[lenny_1248]

In the few Bundesliga games/highlights I’ve seen post COVID19 — sort of inclined to agree. He’s extremely versatile and his stats are fantastic, but I do get the impression he’s a tier below the Kroos/Ozil level.

I don’t know how people will take this comparison but he seems comparable to Dele Alli (at least a season or two ago) — a physically strong no.10 who is surprisingly impressive in the air with strong technical ability to match. Very very strong numbers in G+A for their ages respectively. I’d say Havertz seems more natural playing in multiple positions, but it’s hard to quantify if that’s more down to how good of a tactical tinker Bosz is with his tactics.

Alli? Nonsense.
He's far more technically gifted with a better passing. He has as soft of a touch as Ozil.
Havertz is like Ozil + left-footed Pires, but with a better physical presence and work rate.
Though there is no reason to discuss him. No chance he comes.

 

[hasanejaz88]

Alli? Nonsense.
He's far more technically gifted with a better passing. He has as soft of a touch as Ozil.
Havertz is like Ozil + left-footed Pires, but with a better physical presence and work rate.
Though there is no reason to discuss him. No chance he comes.

I agree with the Ozil comparison, he definitely has the languid touch and grace that Ozil has(d) though Havertz lacks the passing ability of Ozil (but has more goalscoring). The comparison with Pires is not on though, not even close. Pires was a brilliant winger and Havertz neither has the speed nor the dribbling ability that Pires had. Havertz might be playing as a RW on paper but his actual positioning is still as a central player.

 

[andersj]

If we hadn't brought Bruno then perhaps ... and Bayern certainly seem interested (plus not taking the option on Couthino they have space in the squad and wage capacity)... Cant see why Liverpool and Barca wouldn't be interested (and they have CL football)

He is very different to Bruno. Havertz would be an option for RW and striker. And that is also why I dont think Liverpool or Barcelona would be interested (Barca have issues financially too).

 

[Pep's Suit]

Think he'll move only after EURO.

 

[sun_tzu]

He is very different to Bruno. Havertz would be an option for RW and striker. And that is also why I dont think Liverpool or Barcelona would be interested (Barca have issues financially too).

over the last 3 seasons he has played in the following positions

CF 6% of games
RW 17% of games
AM 63% of games
CM 14% of games

up until the league restarted after the CV 19 break he had played literally 3 games up front (one in the cl, one in the europa and one in the BL) and hes playing there now mainly because volland is injured with ligament damage

Perhaps he could develop into a striker (though I remember people saying the same about Draxler) - but right now hed be perhaps our 4th or 5th choice striker behind Rashford, Martial, Greenwood, Ighalo and possibly Sanchez if we cant loan him out again

 

[lenny_1248]

I agree with the Ozil comparison, he definitely has the languid touch and grace that Ozil has(d) though Havertz lacks the passing ability of Ozil (but has more goalscoring). The comparison with Pires is not on though, not even close. Pires was a brilliant winger and Havertz neither has the speed nor the dribbling ability that Pires had. Havertz might be playing as a RW on paper but his actual positioning is still as a central player.

Maybe. But Pires was not a classical winger, he would often cut inside. That's why he could only play on the left.
And he was not fast either, he was more of a "playmaker" with a great technique and elegancy.
Or you can even draw comparisons with Totti in the way he plays as a false number 9.
Though of course all comparisons are premature. Let's see what he does in top club.

 

[andersj]

over the last 3 seasons he has played in the following positions

CF 6% of games
RW 17% of games
AM 63% of games
CM 14% of games

up until the league restarted after the CV 19 break he had played literally 3 games up front (one in the cl, one in the europa and one in the BL) and hes playing there now mainly because volland is injured with ligament damage

Perhaps he could develop into a striker (though I remember people saying the same about Draxler) - but right now hed be perhaps our 4th or 5th choice striker behind Rashford, Martial, Greenwood, Ighalo and possibly Sanchez if we cant loan him out again

Good point. But look at his skillset. He is obviously not a CM. And he offers something very different than Bruno.

Also, look at his heat maps regardless of what position he play. He receive a huge portion of passes on the brink of the final third close to the touch line on the right side. Almost mirroring Martial/Rashford.

 

[DWelbz19]

Alli? Nonsense.
He's far more technically gifted with a better passing. He has as soft of a touch as Ozil.
Havertz is like Ozil + left-footed Pires, but with a better physical presence and work rate.
Though there is no reason to discuss him. No chance he comes.

He’s a better passer but I don’t know about “far more technically gifted”. He doesn’t hold a candle to Ozil in that regard, for instance, which is where people are getting carried away. He’s shown himself to be the bigger goal threat than Ozil ever has his whole career though.

 

[Righteous Steps]

He’s a better passer but I don’t know about “far more technically gifted”. He doesn’t hold a candle to Ozil in that regard, for instance, which is where people are getting carried away. He’s shown himself to be the bigger goal threat than Ozil ever has his whole career though.

Yes looks like a far more stiff unathletic Ozil to me, Ozil had a great burst of pace and was so smooth dribbling and manoeuvring with the ball.

 

[Zehner]

Good point. But look at his skillset. He is obviously not a CM. And he offers something very different than Bruno.

Also, look at his heat maps regardless of what position he play. He receive a huge portion of passes on the brink of the final third close to the touch line on the right side. Almost mirroring Martial/Rashford.

I've seen almost every game of Havertz. He's more of a CM than a winger. Even in the games he nominally started on the right, he always drifted into the center. I wouldn't trust these statistics. I've seen so many times that the media had him as a RW in their line ups and in the game it looked nothing like it. His best positions are the right 8 in a 4-3-3, the 10 in a 4-2-3-1 or the false 9 in a 4-3-3. Formations may vary if we play with three at the back, though. He also played many games as an 8/10 hybrid in a 3-5-2 alongside Brandt. Wasted as a RW.

Yes looks like a far more stiff unathletic Ozil to me, Ozil had a great burst of pace and was so smooth dribbling and manoeuvring with the ball.

I'm a great Özil fan but technically they're very, very similar. Which makes sense simce Havertz himself named him as a role model. Özil still is a better passer but IMO he's the best final third passer of his generation, even better than Messi in this aspect, so that doesn't say much. Havertz still plays some incredible passes at times. On top of that, he significantly faster (has one of the highest top speeds of the BL, exceeding 35 km/h), a waaayy better finisher, is stronger and has a real goal instinct. Overall a much more complete footballer than Özil who sadly stopped developing after leaving Madrid.