Kai Havertz

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Cassidy said:
Arsenals defence is also poor...
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I wouldn't take any of Arsenal's defenders at the expense of Chelsea's, yet they've concede far less goals than us since the restart despite having a higher xGa than us.

I don't advocate reducing the entire conversation re; our defence to statistics but I cant get past Kepa being the biggest and most pressing concern defensively. If we had even an average keeper like Fabianski I don't think the back 4 would be talked about as such a joke.
 
UNITED ACADEMY said:
They aren't mediocre players if they are better than whatever you got and improve your defense.
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Signing players just because they're better than what you've got is the most silliest way to do business.

We could have panic brought Bergwijn and Dembele in January but instead we waited and have been rewarded. City and Liverpool will still be far too good for the rest next season, so if sorting out our attack then worrying about the defense (which will be better solely by sticking Onana there over Kepa anyway) is the way we're doing things then so be it.
 
Dancfc said:
Signing players just because they're better than what you've got is the most silliest way to do business.

We could have panic brought Bergwijn and Dembele in January but instead we waited and have been rewarded. City and Liverpool will still be far too good for the rest next season, so if sorting out our attack then worrying about the defense (which will be better solely by sticking Onana there over Kepa anyway) is the way we're doing things then so be it.
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If you think Bergwijn & Dembele are better then I'm very shocked how you judged the players. Those two are just random names you came out with, they offer similar aspect or less than what you are currently have.

I didn't really mention random name, because that's what you call most silliest way of business. Instead, I actually mentioned some specific name who has attribute to improve your defense. You need a leader and I specific names like Dunk, Koulibally, Stefan for example. They provided attribute that your defense don't have. If I want to just mention some well known name who is better randomly, I could mention Upamecano but I didn't because he won't fill in the blanks that your centre back needs.

I never said you shouldn't improve your attack. In fact I said you need to do both.
 
Cassidy said:
Keeper wasn't at fault against Sheffield for example, and the record on corners and set pieces isn't just down to the keeper either.
Keeper really is bad, but its not solely on him as a team the defending isn't great.

Tarkowski isn't necessarily better Burnley is a defensive team and as a team defends better than Chelsea. Especially earlier in the season Chelsea was very open in the way they played and extremely naive.
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Not sure about the bolded bit:



Why is he literally standing inside his goal in a crossing situation? And how does he get beaten at his near post without even moving? Granted he could do nothing about the 1st and 3rd; it's pretty sad that he can concede 3 and have it be an improvement over his previous performance.

For me our defense always looks to be in a complete panic and I think Kepa is by far the biggest cause of this - our defenders have consistently had to overcommit to any potential shot because they know it's more or less a coin toss whether it goes in as Kepa is barely saving half the shots on target.
 
I'll be completely honest. There is a lot of hype around him especially from Germany, but from what I've seen, particularly earlier on in the season, I'm not as convinced of him being a potential superstar. For me, he feels a little too similar to Mhikitarian/Kagawa in the sense that he can provide the final ball, but I wouldn't call him necessarily creative. And his final ball isn't mindblowing in the technical sense that Debruyne or Ozil's is. He benefits a little physically from playing in Germany, whereas I think over here the physical advantages wouldn't be so evident either.

Unpopular opinion- I don't think he's better than Grealish. I think he benefits from hype, as his early season poor form and his champions league performances are easily forgotten. No doubt he will still be a good player, but I don't think he will be as impactful as some expect. Ziyech is the signing that Chelsea has/could make that has impressed me previously.
 
Re: chelsea defensive stats

Worth noting that their post-shot xGA per shot is the worst in the league at 0.36 per shot

the defence is poor(though much worse after the restart. Wasn't all that bad before), Kepa is tragic, but also, teams just shot lights out against them :lol:
 
TheMagicFoolBus said:
Not sure about the bolded bit:



Why is he literally standing inside his goal in a crossing situation? And how does he get beaten at his near post without even moving? Granted he could do nothing about the 1st and 3rd; it's pretty sad that he can concede 3 and have it be an improvement over his previous performance.

For me our defense always looks to be in a complete panic and I think Kepa is by far the biggest cause of this - our defenders have consistently had to overcommit to any potential shot because they know it's more or less a coin toss whether it goes in as Kepa is barely saving half the shots on target.
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Reaching.
The striker is unmarked in the box and the cross is outside the 6 yard box, but lets blame the keeper for a striker being completely unmarked in the box...
 
WeePat said:
I wouldn't take any of Arsenal's defenders at the expense of Chelsea's, yet they've concede far less goals than us since the restart despite having a higher xGa than us.

I don't advocate reducing the entire conversation re; our defence to statistics but I cant get past Kepa being the biggest and most pressing concern defensively. If we had even an average keeper like Fabianski I don't think the back 4 would be talked about as such a joke.
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I agree your keeper is poor.
The point I was making is that your defense is also poor.
 
Im not convinced that a bad keeper is the sole issue that Chelsea have. They never seem to look particularly solid whenever I watch them, and individually they have good players.

Question marks for me over Lampard and his coaching staff's ability to organise a defence, or to get the balance right.
 
Bilbo said:
Im not convinced that a bad keeper is the sole issue that Chelsea have. They never seem to look particularly solid whenever I watch them, and individually they have good players.

Question marks for me over Lampard and his coaching staff's ability to organise a defence, or to get the balance right.
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Considering conceding goals from set pieces was something that also plagued Derby last season, I'd say you're right in that there's organisational issues with the way we set up to defend corners and free kicks
 
WeePat said:
Considering conceding goals from set pieces was something that also plagued Derby last season, I'd say you're right in that there's organisational issues with the way we set up to defend corners and free kicks
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Couldn’t he employ JT as a defensive coach or something like arsenal used to do with Bould?
 
Cassidy said:
Reaching.
The striker is unmarked in the box and the cross is outside the 6 yard box, but lets blame the keeper for a striker being completely unmarked in the box...
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He's not the biggest problem for sure, but Kepa's positioning absolutely impacts Christensen. We've conceded so many goals where a ball is driven across the 6 yard box uncontested because Kepa is rooted to his line, so the defensive scheme now has someone dropping to the corner of the 6 yard box to cut it out. Normally this is supposed to be a midfielder but Jorginho isn't back in time, Christensen decides to go there instead without passing his man, Jorginho doesn't really do anything, and McBurnie is thus unmarked.

With a proper goalkeeper our CBs' job is much simpler - mark your man and try to win the 1v1. With Kepa, they also have to worry about marking spaces he should be handling and thus it's far easier to make a mistake.
 
Cassidy said:
Reaching.
The striker is unmarked in the box and the cross is outside the 6 yard box, but lets blame the keeper for a striker being completely unmarked in the box...
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Not sure why is the poster even using that screen shot to begin with. That goal was a very shocking defense. All of their defense were just completely ball watching and unaware where their men were. I've seen this many times when I watched Chelsea. Kepa has been poor but their defense has also been equally poor. Swap Kepa to Onana against Sheffield, the score would still be the same.
 
UNITED ACADEMY said:
Not sure why is the poster even using that screen shot to begin with. That goal was a very shocking defense. All of their defense were just completely ball watching and unaware where their men were. I've seen this many times when I watched Chelsea. Kepa has been poor but their defense has also been equally poor. Swap Kepa to Onana against Sheffield, the score would still be the same.
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I don't know why people keep saying this. Kepa is literally having the worst season for a keeper in the entire history of the competition. There have been 560 individual seasons and he is having the 560th. The defense meanwhile has a lower xGA than Liverpool.
 
TheMagicFoolBus said:
I don't know why people keep saying this. Kepa is literally having the worst season for a keeper in the entire history of the competition. There have been 560 individual seasons and he is having the 560th. The defense meanwhile has a lower xGA than Liverpool.
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This is very common that people don't pay attention on ball watching defenders and instead they look at errors who involves on the ball directly instead of off the ball. Kepa is terrible but so is your defense.

Good example that happened to United recently. When Maguire got nutmeg against Bournemouth. People were blaming him. In reality, Maguire tried to stop 2 players at the same time while the other of his team mate were ball watching and in poor positioning not doing anything and marking no one during the incident but no one mention it. Others could help to cover him but they did nothing.

It's called the ability to sense a danger, ball watching is a crime in my book and it's basic. Put Terry in your defense, that picture that you posted, that goal won't happen. Terry wouldn't let the attackers be off mark like that easily.
 
UNITED ACADEMY said:
This is very common that people don't pay attention on ball watching defenders and instead they look at errors who involves on the ball directly instead of off the ball. Kepa is terrible but so is your defense.

Good example that happened to United recently. When Maguire got nutmeg against Bournemouth. People were blaming him. In reality, Maguire tried to stop 2 players at the same time while the other of his team mate were ball watching and in poor positioning not doing anything and marking no one during the incident but no one mention it. Others could help to cover him but they did nothing.

It's called the ability to sense a danger, ball watching is a crime in my book and it's basic. Put Terry in your defense, that picture that you posted, that goal won't happen. Terry wouldn't let the attackers be off mark like that easily.
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I'm not saying the defense doesn't need improving. You're saying that the defense is equally bad which is just simply not the case. Kepa is historically bad - the defense isn't.

I agree that players off the ball can escape scrutiny - the problem is Chelsea have to defend wide areas differently than most teams because Kepa refuses to come to collect crosses. The entire defense has to accommodate this insecurity of his by focusing on marking space in addition to opposing players and that alone creates issues everywhere. I agree that Terry would have defended that better; unfortunately he ain't walking through that door. On the other hand, Onana also probably prevents that goal and there is a distinct possibility of getting him.
 
giorno said:
Re: chelsea defensive stats

Worth noting that their post-shot xGA per shot is the worst in the league at 0.36 per shot

the defence is poor(though much worse after the restart. Wasn't all that bad before), Kepa is tragic, but also, teams just shot lights out against them :lol:
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Just as an additional context to the stats I posted earlier and to add to yours.

 
ColoRed said:
don´t know how reliable this is but the kicker reports that Havertz will move to Chelsea according to "various sources".
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They just say he wants to move to Chelsea. Chelsea will have to agree a fee with Leverkusen. I think it will be done, looks likely at this point
 
Pow said:
Is this really gonna happen? Blimey
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Looks like it. Will take a while i guess, but he wants a move this summer and Chelsea want him as well. Leverkusen want to cash in. Your luck is that no other club wants him badly this summer, so you have a free run at him. Top transfer if it happens.
 
The same Kicker report suggests that Havertz will complete the Europa League season with Leverkusen before any deal happens, so we're talking deep into August and only a couple of weeks before the new league season begins..
 
Roman back in a spending frenzy it seems. Isn't there persistent talk about Chilwell as well?
 
WeePat said:
The same Kicker report suggests that Havertz will complete the Europa League season with Leverkusen before any deal happens, so we're talking deep into August and only a couple of weeks before the new league season begins..
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It’s only fair - Werner pulled out of the CL entirely to get the Chelsea deal fully done, right?
 
2ndTouch said:
Roman back in a spending frenzy it seems. Isn't there persistent talk about Chilwell as well?
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Chilwell talk has cooled of late. Word is Marina doesn't see the sense in spending that much for him when Tagliafico has a €25m release clause.

DWelbz19 said:
It’s only fair - Werner pulled out of the CL entirely to get the Chelsea deal fully done, right?
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The Werner deal was a bit different as he had a release clause that expired at a fixed date - Chelsea offered to loan him back with potential fees to guarantee for injury but RBL said no.
 
WeePat said:
The same Kicker report suggests that Havertz will complete the Europa League season with Leverkusen before any deal happens, so we're talking deep into August and only a couple of weeks before the new league season begins..
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But, they can forget about 100 Mil - if that happens.
 
UweBein said:
But, they can forget about 100 Mil - if that happens.
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I doubt that. Völler and co. communicated that quite clearly from the very beginning if the reports are to trust. It was always "100m, Havertz finishes the Euro League for us, take it or leave it" and they didn't move one inch from those demands. If Chelsea is indeed so close to signing him, they'll know about that and plan accordingly.
 
Kostov said:
Whatever they do with their defense and GK, fair fecks to Chelsea. Buying Werner, Havertz and Ziyech and it's just July.
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It’s not as if they haven’t got the funds. Plastic cnuts.

So much for their youth products eh? They’ll hardly get a look in
 
Inigo Montoya said:
It’s not as if they haven’t got the funds. Plastic cnuts.

So much for their youth products eh? They’ll hardly get a look in
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So i take it youre against signing sancho for big money so greenwood doesnt drop back to the bench right ?
 
Pow said:
What does it say ? Not loading for me.
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David Ornstein tweet;

Chelsea closing in on Kai Havertz:
#CFC only club ready to pay acceptable fee (~€80m after addons)
Personal terms all-but done
21yo keen after Lampard talks
Short wait in case options emerge
Books to be balanced via sales
@TheAthleticUK
https://t.co/NwAzVS3NYM
 
Adnan said:
Chelsea close to signing Havertz.
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WeePat said:
David Ornstein tweet;

Chelsea closing in on Kai Havertz:
#CFC only club ready to pay acceptable fee (~€80m after addons)
Personal terms all-but done
21yo keen after Lampard talks
Short wait in case options emerge
Books to be balanced via sales
@TheAthleticUK
https://t.co/NwAzVS3NYM
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Ta.
Theres a lot of deadwood that needs clearing out that could raise us money.
Would be over the moon if we signed him such a classy player.
 
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