Juventuz goes into meltdown

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cyberman said:
No. He's an 18 year old kid who looked to his agent for advice.
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It certainly allows for a nice "poor little clueless kid pulled from rapture by sinister agent and nasty foreign club"-narrative. And it has an elegance to it, too. Because he was a clueless kid back then, but now of course, it was a mature and conscious decision, totally not influenced by his agent.;)

cyberman said:
At the time it was reported all the English big guns asked about Pogba. He was a player in demand.
If we assume Raiola's cut acts as 3rd party ownership, which is illegal in England, do we believe Raiola was laying out Pauls options and judging it on merit or was he manouvering Pogba towards Juve where he could legally get his share?
Do you think Raiola would forgo his 30% of one of the best youngsters in world football and advise him to move to Arsenal? Or stay at United?
I don't.
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You are making a lot of assumptions with little to back it up. Sure, agents try to influence their clients. But I do believe in players having a brain and a will of their own. If Raiola had it easy with convincing Pogba to go elsewhere, then probably because something wasn't all roses like you want to believe. Juventus offered him perspectives, and obviously did a better job at it than your club back then.
 
2ndTouch said:
It certainly allows for a nice "poor little clueless kid pulled from rapture by sinister agent and nasty foreign club"-narrative. And it has an elegance to it, too. Because he was a clueless kid back then, but now of course, it was a mature and conscious decision, totally not influenced by his agent.;)



You are making a lot of assumptions with little to back it up. Sure, agents try to influence their clients. But I do believe in players having a brain and a will of their own. If Raiola had it easy with convincing Pogba to go elsewhere, then probably because something wasn't all roses like you want to believe. Juventus offered him perspectives, and obviously did a better job at it than your club back then.
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If you think Raiola would neglect his 30% to serve Pogba's best interests then fair enough.
I don't think it's much of an assumption to claim an 18 year old can be easily influenced btw.
 
cyberman said:
I don't think it's much of an assumption to claim an 18 year old can be easily influenced btw.
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How easily depends a) on the individual person and b) the surrounding circumstances. 2 factors which you don't seem wanting to consider.
 
There's no reason to think that Pogba was stolen by Juventus conniving with his agent against his wishes. The guy left and we signed him back. Why go for the romantic narrative all the time?
 
Don't know about this Juventus forum, but their fans are constantly posting childish garbage on every single Pogba post on facebook. It's pathetic.
 
cyberman said:
Because he had Raiola in his ear making his mind up for him.
I used to believe Pogba's version of events...right up until it was revealed Raiola wormed his way into 30% ownership of his registration.
Are we to believe Raiola was advising him to stay or go when we read that?
For all of the talk about disrespect Pogba has returned anyway. The disrespect couldn't have been that damning.
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Raiola would have influenced him but Pogba was in a hurry. Raiola has been fantastic for Pogba's career regardless.
 
Lay said:
I haven't followed it much, but I'm sure the original punishment was overturned in civil and criminal courts. The relegation and match fixing case has been heavily criticised for having a lack of evidence. I also remember reading Juventus didn't appeal the original decision as it would have meant Italy would be banned from entering the 2006 World Cup (also why the FIGC rushed the case).

- Decided to quickly read up on it:
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I haven't been arsed to read up on it, but I'd appreciate cliff notes. Is this right? Did Juve take relegation just to avoid Italy being banned from the WC? Wtf?
 
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:lol::lol::lol:

They are really butt hurt that their best player left them to go play Europa League
 
Red Katie said:
They still not over it yet?
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Not in the slightest.

They have gone to the old "underrating a player that left" stance to get some comfort. Now they all agree that Veratti is much way better than Pogba and hes who they need to sign next summer.
 
They have zero chance of signing Verrati. They simply don't have the 100M plus needed to get him.
 
ChaddyP said:
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:lol::lol::lol:

They are really butt hurt that their best player left them to go play Europa League
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They keep doing this, but it's a pretty damning sign for them(and Dortmund especially), if your best players want to feck off and join a team in the Europa league over staying in the CL with their current club.
 
VanGaalEra said:
They have zero chance of signing Verrati. They simply don't have the 100M plus needed to get him.
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I find it strange that they Value loyalty so much and get so angry that a player would ever leave their project. But yet, they are acting like siging Verrati is nothing and he will be better character than Pogba. Verrati leaving PSG will be the same thing in terms of loyalty, heck they snatched Higuain from their main title contenders and bitter rivals. yet Higauin isn't seen as disloyal. Logic on internet forums is so hard to find at times
 
Earthquake said:
They keep doing this, but it's a pretty damning sign for them(and Dortmund especially), if your best players want to feck off and join a team in the Europa league over staying in the CL with their current club.
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I know. It is surely a bigger insult to them that their best players would choose us in the Europa over them in the Champions League.
 
Earthquake said:
They keep doing this, but it's a pretty damning sign for them(and Dortmund especially), if your best players want to feck off and join a team in the Europa league over staying in the CL with their current club.
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I dont see how they dont see this. And anyone that even mentions this in the thread is thought to be a redcafe spy :rolleyes:
 
I don't know what's the obsession with Europa league. United would be there next season anyway.
We had some of our stars playing in Serie B. One season in Europa is not big deal.
 
zlatan_ish said:
I don't know what's the obsession with Europa league. United would be there next season anyway.
We had some of our stars playing in Serie B. One season in Europa is not big deal.
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Its like the fans on that site think that once you play Europa league you will never be allowed in Champions League, and acting like Juventus never dropped out of CL to play EL or just outright never qualified for only EL
 
ChaddyP said:
I find it strange that they Value loyalty so much and get so angry that a player would ever leave their project. But yet, they are acting like siging Verrati is nothing and he will be better character than Pogba. Verrati leaving PSG will be the same thing in terms of loyalty, heck they snatched Higuain from their main title contenders and bitter rivals. yet Higauin isn't seen as disloyal. Logic on internet forums is so hard to find at times
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Well, Pogba was the best CM in Europe when he was with them, he had the potential to be the new Zidane, and now they're saying he is shit, overrated, they made a good deal with this, etc...

Football fans can be fickle, but I don't understand their anger. It's not like Pogba went into a rival team or anything, he moved to a completely different league for a team that has nothing to do with Juventus and doesn't compete with them in any way (we're not even in CL). Aside from that, they got 100 million which is a damn good deal no matter the player (except Messi probably)

I mean, I was disappointed when Ronaldo left us and I had every reason to be - he named himself a "slave", lied about staying and all that, and I never cursed at him or was I ever derogatory towards him. I was just disappointed.
 
Dumat12 said:
Well, Pogba was the best CM in Europe when he was with them, he had the potential to be the new Zidane, and now they're saying he is shit, overrated, they made a good deal with this, etc...

Football fans can be fickle, but I don't understand their anger. It's not like Pogba went into a rival team or anything, he moved to a completely different league for a team that has nothing to do with Juventus and doesn't compete with them in any way (we're not even in CL). Aside from that, they got 100 million which is a damn good deal no matter the player (except Messi probably)

I mean, I was disappointed when Ronaldo left us and I had every reason to be - he named himself a "slave", lied about staying and all that, and I never cursed at him or was I ever derogatory towards him. I was just disappointed.
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One of the biggest ever red cafe meltdowns was when Ronaldo left. I can confirm derogatory things were said about Real, Ronaldo and Utd

And this was a transfer most of us expected to happen

Pogba back to us is quite the shock

I totally understand were juve fans are coming from and not surprised at all they are pissed
 
roonster09 said:
It's laughable to say we didn't value Pogba when he was here.
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Pogba complained about game time for pretty much the whole season. Let's just say, we valued him less than he thought we should've at that juncture in his career.
 
This is how a real Juventus fan think

http://vivoperlei.calciomercato.com/articolo/paul-ti-voglio-raccontare-una-storia-1

Dear Paul

I'd like to tell you a story. The story is about a squad whom in 2006 had 6/11 in the Italian national side, whom, as you well know, had won the WC against your national side. Id like to tell you a story of a great squad. Do you want to know some of the names that played for this team? Buffon, Cannavaro, Thuram, Zambrotta, Vieira, Camoranesi, Emerson, Nedved, Del Piero, Trezeguet, Ibra. Here I mentioned just 11.

I'd like, actually we like to tell you how it feels when they take away everything from you. What it means to see everyone leaving. What it means watching Cannavaro and Emerson going to Real and the pain Ibra caused when he signed for Inter who stole from us our league. The pain we felt when we saw Zambrotta dribbling at Camp Nou.

Instead we wont tell you that story. I wont tell you about any of those players. Instead I will tell you the story of two WC champions ie Buffon and Camoranesi, of one of the best strikers ever David Trezeguet, about the ballon d'or Pavel Nedved or our legend Allesandro Del Piero. All of these players prefered to remain with the club even when we were in the Serie B while we suffered all sort of insults.There we played in stadiums which we had never played before. We have lost Allesio and Riccardo our historical store keepers. And now 10 years had passed. We've got a new home, the Juventus stadium, we've won everything in Italy and we were very close to win the CL. We also gave our goodbye to our captain and legend. However you know this story cause you were there

That's why I don't care that you're leaving. We've got a very high threshold for pain and we wont feel any pain to see you leave. If we suffer a bit we'll think of those 110m euros

Players come and go but Juventus remain

Thanks for everything Paul. Good luck.
 
If we lost de gea right now significantly worse things would be said. The moderators are quick on that stuff so there would be a lot of bans, but with the frustration there would be a lot of horrible comments.
 
whatwha said:
€72m euros :p
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Seriously what Juventus fans should be pissed off is not losing Pogba. They lost better players then him and managed to buy equal/better players to replace them. What they should really be pissed off is their club blowing all the cash on Higuain. That's very lazy and so non Juventus.
 
Italy just ain't what it used to be. It must be shite to be reminded of that. When Higuain hits the treadmill, starts knocking them in for fun, and they walk another boring Serie A season, they'll forget all about it. Chin up, Juve.
 
devilish said:
This is how a real Juventus fan think

http://vivoperlei.calciomercato.com/articolo/paul-ti-voglio-raccontare-una-storia-1

Dear Paul

I'd like to tell you a story. The story is about a squad whom in 2006 had 6/11 in the Italian national side, whom, as you well know, had won the WC against your national side. Id like to tell you a story of a great squad. Do you want to know some of the names that played for this team? Buffon, Cannavaro, Thuram, Zambrotta, Vieira, Camoranesi, Emerson, Nedved, Del Piero, Trezeguet, Ibra. Here I mentioned just 11.

I'd like, actually we like to tell you how it feels when they take away everything from you. What it means to see everyone leaving. What it means watching Cannavaro and Emerson going to Real and the pain Ibra caused when he signed for Inter who stole from us our league. The pain we felt when we saw Zambrotta dribbling at Camp Nou.

Instead we wont tell you that story. I wont tell you about any of those players. Instead I will tell you the story of two WC champions ie Buffon and Camoranesi, of one of the best strikers ever David Trezeguet, about the ballon d'or Pavel Nedved or our legend Allesandro Del Piero. All of these players prefered to remain with the club even when we were in the Serie B while we suffered all sort of insults.There we played in stadiums which we had never played before. We have lost Allesio and Riccardo our historical store keepers. And now 10 years had passed. We've got a new home, the Juventus stadium, we've won everything in Italy and we were very close to win the CL. We also gave our goodbye to our captain and legend. However you know this story cause you were there

That's why I don't care that you're leaving. We've got a very high threshold for pain and we wont feel any pain to see you leave. If we suffer a bit we'll think of those 110m euros

Players come and go but Juventus remain

Thanks for everything Paul. Good luck.
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Oh god open letters.

Sure sign of a 40 year old virgin.
 
SirAF said:
I haven't been arsed to read up on it, but I'd appreciate cliff notes. Is this right? Did Juve take relegation just to avoid Italy being banned from the WC? Wtf?
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Yes that is true. Juventus were made an example of for Serie A and the rest of Italy. A law was even changed just so we could be relegated for a punishment that normally would result in a fine. That is why a huge lawsuit is coming in the way of the Italian FA very soon as we were wrongfully relegated and not given a fair trial.
 
Good grief. Their Pogba thread has taken a turn for the worse :eek:

This transfer really broke them
 
I'm almost over it. But I'm changed forever. Will never attach myself to a player again.
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:(
The anger has died down a little leading to more sensible posts. Many now acknowledging they have lost a quality player.
 
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