There's absolutely no way Phil Jones is 5'11"
Jurriën Timber | Arsenal player
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If he has good timing and vertical leap, height isn't much of a factor. A lot of that can be trained with plyometrics, box jumps etc.
That's the issue though, more than his actual height. He doesn't.
He has the lowest success rate in aerial duels of any CB in the big 5 leagues or CL.
Apparently he is.
Seems false. Can you clarify?
From the stats in the spoiler in the OP taken from fbref. He's first percentile in aerial duel % won, so either the absolute worst recorded, or very, very close to it.
The stats I was referring to were just for top 5 leagues and Europe in the last 12 months (as that's what fbref uses), so the Dutch league games aren't counted in Timber's case and it's purely from his European games. (so this season's CL where he has 45% aerial success and last season's Europa where he somehow had only 27%).Unshockingly, White and Lindelof are actually worse.
It's good to know his numbers in the Dutch league are decent enough though. Hopefully the bigger sample size counts for more than the lesser quality of opposition.
Yeah judging it in CL is hard since it‘s only small portion amount of games that don‘t always played weekly. Even Varane 19/20 UCL had 46% success rate.
Not sold on Timber tbh. I've watched him quite alot now, and aside from his lack of aerial ability I'm also not at all impressed with him defensively. He's good at bringing the ball forward and perfectly suited to a possession style but even this can often lead to him being stranded up the pitch if the opposition manage to counter attack into the space he has vacated. Maguire, Varane and Lindelof are all very good in possession and progressing the ball imo. Their problems have been defensive positioning and poor one on one defending (Maguire in particular). I've seen Timber beaten in a lot of 1v1 scenarios. Considering the massive increase in quality opposition he would face in the Pl, I would be quite concerned. If there is one positive, I guess it's that he's only 20. Personally I'd steer clear and look elsewhere.
Gravenberch is one of the best young players in the world and Mazraoui is a great rb. They would 100% be good enough to get in our team. Looks like they're off to Barcelona and Bayern though.
It would seem so but many Ajax fans affirm that Gravenburch isn't good enough for the Eredvise. I'm unsure about Mazraoui but taking the opinions from those who watch Ajax on a regular basis Timber is the signing that would be the most impactful.
I've watched enough of Ajax to know that I massively disagree with these Ajax fans you're talking about
I guess only time will tell but like any young player Gravenburch will have to choose his next club wisely.
What the hell guys he’s not 5’9”
he’s like Blind height
he’s like Blind height
Take a punt on him - we did £75mill on Maguire and people aint happy with that either! Tough crowd. That Antony fella looks decent though - admittedly different standard of defender in holland but £31mill - why not?
If only we can get someone to buy martial before he bankrupts us!
If only we can get someone to buy martial before he bankrupts us!
Jurrien Timberlake will bring sexy back to Old Trafford
What the hell guys he’s not 5’9”
he’s like Blind height
Is that Daley Blind? What happened to those luscious locks of his!
A jealous father.
We took a £75m punt on Maguire and that turned out terribly so let's take another risky cb punt. Interesting logic.
Male pattern baldness. Ten Hag just injecting additional testosterone into the team.
To be fair Blind is 5’11 and is standing further away in the back hereWhat the hell guys he’s not 5’9”
he’s like Blind height
Yeah Blind might be a cm taller, but Timber is 179, which is about 5'10.5"
funnily enough Timber's centreback partner is genuinely (at most) 5'9"
Cheers!Yeah judging it in CL is hard since it‘s only small portion amount of games that don‘t always played weekly. Even Varane 19/20 UCL had 46% success rate.
That’s probably why some players are opposing the idea of Ten Hag as a manager.
the guy's stats are really impressive. especially his passing stats and ground duels. if we have to start 'arry and varane, this guy might be the business in a CDM role.
It's not just age. He has pace and is very aggressive, something Lindelof lacks completely.
Of Course but I wen't with the most basic observation. If you have the opportunity to bring a significantly younger player that isn't a downgrade then you do it, even if they have the same flaws.
I'm not sure the exact source of these stats, but just to give an alternate stats comparison between Timber and other PL cbs particularly in the areas of 1v1s/dribbled past and aerial duels.
Similarly it shows his great ability on the ball:
For what it's worth these numbers fit with what I would have expected having watched a good number of Timber's games.
Similarly it shows his great ability on the ball:
For what it's worth these numbers fit with what I would have expected having watched a good number of Timber's games.
Very true.
Interesting thread but two points I'd note:
1) I wonder where he is getting that data from? Because if it's FBref (which a lot of those twitter threads use) then it suffers from the small sample size issue as I think I'm right in saying they don't cover the Eredivisie, so the data would just be from CL games.
2) I wonder how true it is that aerial ability isn't something that can be developed? For example someone like Pau Torres (who we might similarly see as a excellent ball-playing but aerially weak CB), went from a 47.4% aerial duel win rate in 19/20 to 60.6% and 65.3% in the subsequent two years, a fairly substantial improvement. Which (I would guess) was the natural result of a young CB developing physically. At only 20 years old I would expect Timber to be able to improve somewhat for the same reason, especially if greater emphasis was placed on that aspect of his game than has been the case at Ajax.
You are right it’s poor logic but I’d rather us take several punts at £30mil than 3 at 98 75 and 56 - more chance of some of them working out.
The likes of Liverpool can play so high in the oppositions half because Van Dijk/Matip can deal with any long ball that’s hit against them to counter.
I’ve never seen Timber play but his size would worry me.
I’ve never seen Timber play but his size would worry me.
Yes the home 2-2 draw. Lee Sharpe scored a great back heel flick. May played at right back, Irwin left back, Parker and Pallister in the middle. Bruce, Neville and Scholes were on the bench. Bruce ended up coming on for May in the second half and Parker moved to right back.
https://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/match/51229--man-united-vs-barcelona/lineups/
You can actually see the highlights below where you can clearly see Parker at CB. He missed a simple header for Bakero to make it 1-2. Video is also a timely reminder how how bloody good Kanchelskis was.
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The opposition are constantly getting in behind them?! That’s what makes them frustrating to watch
If the stats are based on accurate data, I think it reinforces the point that he could be a very good CDM.
Thanks! I guess I’m not surprised my memory betrays me in the detail but I do remember it being an amazing game.
Timber and Blind for all of their alleged short heights are the first choice centrebacks for Ajax? 
Timber and Blind for all of their alleged short heights are the first choice centrebacks for Ajax?
Blind plays LB. I think it's Lisandro Martinez who's even shorter who plays CB alongside Timber usually.
As I imagine the Dutch league to be full of Wout Weghorsts and Luuk de Jongs, I have no idea how that works.
Looking at his highest attribute is ball possession, if the new guy wants to retain the ball more and control games more, maybe he's a good fit, but as we're all over the place in what direction we need to be at every transfer will be questioned until an identity is clear to see.
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