We finished second twice behind Chelsea since their takeover and three times behind City since theirs.
Jurgen Klopp Sack Watch
- Thread starter Samid
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We finished second twice behind Chelsea since their takeover and three times behind City since theirs.
I think there's some difference between Liverpool's 97 points in 2018/19 and 92 points last season (only 1 points behind City in those 2 seasons) and our 81 points (19 less than City) and 74 (12 less than City) in two seasons where we finished 2nd.
Thank you for showing that you didn't understand anything from my post. I didn't even write that he will quit or that he certainly quitted the Dortmund job, as i just can not know what really happend behind the scenes. So as long as you are not some insider with more information than everybody else here, get off your high horse, you are just guessing and making it look like you know more than other people in this thread.
Google Dunning-Kruger effect. Maybe you will get it that it describes exactly what you are doing. Overconfidence in your opinion without knowing anything.
Thank you for showing that you didn't understand anything from my post. I didn't even write that he will quit or that he certainly quitted the Dortmund job, as i just can not know what really happend behind the scenes. So as long as you are not some insider with more information than everybody else here, get off your high horse, you are just guessing and making it look like you know more than other people in this thread.
Google Dunning-Kruger effect. Maybe you will get it that it describes exactly what you are doing. Overconfidence in your opinion without knowing anything.
The state of this.If people’s opinions on a public forum rub you the wrong way this much I’d maybe consider giving up spending time on the internet or maybe, just maybe, taking things with a pinch of salt if you don’t agree with it. Like everyone else on here saying he’s going to quit (presumably without inside knowledge, and yet you have no problem with them, just my opinion though), my opinion is that he won’t quit and then I listed reasons why I thought that. It’s called having an opinion and backing it up with an explanation, there’s no high horse, apart from you writing that nonsense and almost definitely having to google the spelling for Dunning-Kruger.
Covered this earlier, we would have matched them in that period, so in theory winning 2 league titles would have been better than what we shown no matter what Liverpool have done in that time.
Pointless argument to be honest
Difference is nothing when at end of it you get a title, you don't get a bonus trophy for hitting higher points
If people’s opinions on a public forum rub you the wrong way this much I’d maybe consider giving up spending time on the internet or maybe, just maybe, taking things with a pinch of salt if you don’t agree with it. Like everyone else on here saying he’s going to quit (presumably without inside knowledge, and yet you have no problem with them, just my opinion though), my opinion is that he won’t quit and then I listed reasons why I thought that. It’s called having an opinion and backing it up with an explanation, there’s no high horse, apart from you writing that nonsense and almost definitely having to google the spelling for Dunning-Kruger.
Congrats, you are improving. From "certain" statements like "Klopp isn't quiting" to "almost definitely".
For the rest, it's quite simple:
Yes, presumably all the guys that THINK he'll quit have also no inside knowledge
No, i don't call them out and have no problem with them
Why? Because they (or at least the ones i read, as i didn't go through the whole thread) wrote their opinion ("i think", "he will probably quit as he did before", ...) while you wrote it as an absolute fact ("he isn't going to quit", "no one quits if ...", "If he did quit his previous role it’s because he already had Liverpool lined up, it wasn’t because he was ready to gracefully admit defeat and fall on his sword")
If you really don't see what's wrong with this way of expressing an opinion like a fact, good luck.
The funny thing is i am probably not so far aways from you opinion-wise. Klopp may be a nice person (from what i got out of his interviews about other things than football) but for sure he loves money, otherwise he wouldn't do so many ads for things like alcohol, betting sites, and so on. Therefore i'd agree, i also think he won't quit the Liverpool job with so much money on the line. But who am i to judge this so definite? All i can do is saying what i believe, but not what he "will do or not do" with as much certainty as you do.
There’s no difference in being second, no matter the points
Yes and no. But agree to disagree.
Yeah no. They challenged for the league till the last round. In our case we were out of the race by December/Feb respectively.
Jesus mate, so you didn't take umbrage with me disagreeing that Klopp will quit, you disagreed with the way I disagreed and that's what sparked the high horse rant? You realise you sound like that bloke that writes to the council when his neighbours hedge grows too high?I would suggest it's more or less given that all posts on here or any forum are people's opinions unless they state otherwise they have inside info, then you know for sure it's 110% someone's opinion and definitely bullshit. You're the only person who thinks I was stating my opinion as a fact.
Anyway, let's move on from this now, it's boring for everyone else to read. I apologise if you thought me disagreeing with another poster was me presenting my opinion as a fact. Even though it will be when he gets sacked and takes the money!
I would suggest it's more or less given that all posts on here or any forum are people's opinions unless they state otherwise they have inside info, then you know for sure it's 110% someone's opinion and definitely bullshit. You're the only person who thinks I was stating my opinion as a fact.
Anyway, let's move on from this now, it's boring for everyone else to read. I apologise if you thought me disagreeing with another poster was me presenting my opinion as a fact. Even though it will be when he gets sacked and takes the money!
Just think you expressed your opinion in a very unlikeable and arrogant way as if you would know better, while everybody else is able to write his/her opinion in a "normal" way. Sorry if that is not understandable for you. But now that you say it, maybe i'll write to the council about it. Stockholm, right?
But yeah, let's move on. No point in discussing the same topic ten more times
Anyway... we like big Jurgen exactly where he is right? He's doing a grand job
Are you trying to make Jurgen into a checkbook manager?
I suspect I've missed quite a few heated exchanges on the last few dozen pages on this thread. Bottom line is that Klopp has earned the right to stay on as Liverpool as long as he wishes, which I suspect won't last beyond next season if Liverpool are still mired in midtable. But from the POV of a Liverpool supporter he cannot be shoved off the cliff even if they end up in 12th. If they drop into the relegation zone, then a peek over the edge of the cliff would not be out of order.
I like Klopp. I think he's a fantastic manager but I also hate Liverpool and I love where they are positioned at the moment, maybe drop a few spots down near the relegation zone to keep the RAWK Goes Into Meltdown thread bumped permanently to the home page.
So conflicted.
So conflicted.
Many of teams has learned to pin down their fullbacks deep and preventing from hoofing the ball to their forwards, forcing them to play through their midfield which was only supposed to press. So yea, kinda found out.
Im 50-50 on this. The rational and "traditionally British" side of me thinks that even talking about sacking Klopp is beyond insane. He is objectively the 1st or 2nd best manager in the world (depending on how you rate Guardiola) and he is clearly the best Liverpool manager since the 1970s. The fact he has had a bad season is totally irrelevant -- Alex Ferguson had a terrible few seasons back in the early 2000s and so on. You have got to give him time to turn it around.
However I cant help but notice that degenerate clubs like Real Madrid and Chelsea who regularly sack great managers after a bad run are also highly successful. Obviously Rea Madridl are kind of unique and will sack literally anyone for a run of bad games, even if they won the league in the previous season. And yet they are the most successful club side of the last 20 years. It does show that as long as you have a good structure and squad, you can get away with sacking managers frivolously. And there are very clear examples of "legendary" premier league managers who overstayed their welcome and should have been sacked over a decade before they left -- Arsene Wenger from the modern era, and Brian Clough from the 20th century.
So in terms of actual results yeah, maybe you could convince me that Liverpool would be better sacking Klopp. He's their best manager of the modern era but so was Wenger at Arsenal and Clough at Forest, and yet both of them should have been sacked during their first bad year rather than letting them drag out years of mediocrity. I think ultimately it depends on what sort of club you want to be. I personally love the classic British idea of having a manager who is passionate about the club and who cares about and defines every aspect of it, for decades. So I would almost rather have a Wenger/Clough who was struggling than take the modern approach of having a different European manager every year. I don't mind admitting that I feel totally alienated from Man Utd these days despite being a die hard fan before, and the lack of a consistent manager is a big reason. So for me personally I would 100% stick with Klopp on ideological grounds if I were a Liverpool fan, even though I accept they might get better results without him. He loves the club and the fans love him, and that's kind of just as important as trophies.
However I cant help but notice that degenerate clubs like Real Madrid and Chelsea who regularly sack great managers after a bad run are also highly successful. Obviously Rea Madridl are kind of unique and will sack literally anyone for a run of bad games, even if they won the league in the previous season. And yet they are the most successful club side of the last 20 years. It does show that as long as you have a good structure and squad, you can get away with sacking managers frivolously. And there are very clear examples of "legendary" premier league managers who overstayed their welcome and should have been sacked over a decade before they left -- Arsene Wenger from the modern era, and Brian Clough from the 20th century.
So in terms of actual results yeah, maybe you could convince me that Liverpool would be better sacking Klopp. He's their best manager of the modern era but so was Wenger at Arsenal and Clough at Forest, and yet both of them should have been sacked during their first bad year rather than letting them drag out years of mediocrity. I think ultimately it depends on what sort of club you want to be. I personally love the classic British idea of having a manager who is passionate about the club and who cares about and defines every aspect of it, for decades. So I would almost rather have a Wenger/Clough who was struggling than take the modern approach of having a different European manager every year. I don't mind admitting that I feel totally alienated from Man Utd these days despite being a die hard fan before, and the lack of a consistent manager is a big reason. So for me personally I would 100% stick with Klopp on ideological grounds if I were a Liverpool fan, even though I accept they might get better results without him. He loves the club and the fans love him, and that's kind of just as important as trophies.
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You make some great points. Unless the club is in absolute shambles like we were last year, a change of a (previously) successful manager is going to make the club almost always worse off. Unless they are taken over, I cannot imagine Liverpool being able to attract or afford the demands of a tier 1 manager, so they will most likely again go for someone like Klopp v.2014. This is a gamble, since it could very easily mean another Rodgers or the list of flops they've had as managers since the 1990s.
They will almost certainly be worse off without Klopp, who is making them float in spite of the mess they are in.
There's too much money at stake with contracts for any manager to quit a PL position these days, it's usually left to drag out until a position is completely untenable.
It used to be common for managers to quit but the money is so tempting they want to stay on and collect a massive windfall as compensation for getting the boot.
It used to be common for managers to quit but the money is so tempting they want to stay on and collect a massive windfall as compensation for getting the boot.
I know that we hate our owners but Liverpool owners are just as bad tbh. The lack of support that Klopp has had a bit ridiculous. For what he achieved with this team they haven’t supported him enough after the title win and it’s showing now. Their owners have done a good job of hiring the right people but in terms of money it’s been absolutely horrendous
If I were him I'd probably walk. I don't buy the 7 years cycle nonsense and I don't think it has much to do with playing style but rather players not being sharp and 100% motivated anymore after winning evertything there is.
The squad was never as good as heralded barring a few star players (Salah, Mane, VVD pre injury) and its showing now. Throw in the mix a ramped up Newcastle, an ever financially doped ManCity, Chelsea on steroids and now even Arsenal and United kinda getting their shit together after years and Pool is suddenly financally and quality wise the 6/7th strongest club in the League. It's hard to outperform them all at once, I don't really see a short/mid term silver lining for them.
However I think he simply likes living in Liverpool and is not someone to make quick decisions so I don't think he'll resign yet.
The squad was never as good as heralded barring a few star players (Salah, Mane, VVD pre injury) and its showing now. Throw in the mix a ramped up Newcastle, an ever financially doped ManCity, Chelsea on steroids and now even Arsenal and United kinda getting their shit together after years and Pool is suddenly financally and quality wise the 6/7th strongest club in the League. It's hard to outperform them all at once, I don't really see a short/mid term silver lining for them.
However I think he simply likes living in Liverpool and is not someone to make quick decisions so I don't think he'll resign yet.
Not anymore they don't.
Salah won't even make a 5 yard effort to close down a full back anymore.
The pressing style isn't working because he's lost Mane, and Salah cant be arsed since he got his big money deal. Diaz and Jota are out and he's left with a donkey, a semi retired Firminho and a guy who doesn't want to work up there.
Put a midfield behind that with no legs and it's easy to see why they aren't capable of implementing the game plan to the same level of success anymore.
He's not been backed like Pep, but its a bit of a myth to suggest he's not had plenty of money to spend, it's just now being spent poorly.
If he were to leave who would be the most likely candidate to replace him?
Tuchel maybe? Struggling to think of anybody else?
Just had a look at their transfer record over the last few years and they average around £40 million net spend every year so its no wonder they are struggling.
They got incredibly lucky that Barcelona paid way over the odds for Coutinho which enabled them to bring in Van Dijk and Allison, but since then they've had to try and compete with a relatively modest budget in comparison to other teams.
Tuchel maybe? Struggling to think of anybody else?
Just had a look at their transfer record over the last few years and they average around £40 million net spend every year so its no wonder they are struggling.
They got incredibly lucky that Barcelona paid way over the odds for Coutinho which enabled them to bring in Van Dijk and Allison, but since then they've had to try and compete with a relatively modest budget in comparison to other teams.
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It’s not a myth at all, for the level of team he has built the club have not spent anywhere near enough
Or have they spent like a normal team and not one spoilt by oil?
Liverpool reported the second largest revenue in the world this season and yet their net transfer spend is way lesser than even United. Klopp has done an insane job but sooner or later it starts showing up
To be more granular in terms of the spending, hasn't Klopp been more hands on in terms of the players he wanted to sign? I think I read that someone like Nunez was the result of him pushing for it, no? Maybe he's being backed, but he's just not very good at refreshing his side?
They've been punching above their weight for ages.
They had a purple patch where their signings worked out and they hit upon a successful formula on the pitch. That spell has ended and balance has finally returned.
They had a purple patch where their signings worked out and they hit upon a successful formula on the pitch. That spell has ended and balance has finally returned.
Why aren’t they in for Jorginho for that price? What’s the excuses there?
Say you are FSG, you can’t fire him. There will be riots. You can’t give him money, cos he wasted it all on shit. You can’t keep him, you can’t fund him and you can’t let him go. It’s delightful. I hope this gets dragged on and on for few more years. The longer it takes them to realized he is found out and the longer they think its all FSG the better it is. I hope he wins a few on the bounce, you know just to keep their hopes high.
High wages, plus they have Thiago?
They need a couple of Wijnaldum type players who are approaching their physical peak.
If they didn't throw 140 mil away on Nunez and Gakpo, they could've have the funds for these players. Instead, they wasted that money and spent a year dreaming about Bellingham, which will most likely not even happen anymore given their state.
I don’t think Thiago is better than Jorginho and even if he is doesn’t Jorginho sit deeper?
I dont rate this version of Jorginho at all but it’s hard to pretend he isn’t an upgrade on Henderson and this Fabinho.
They’ll go for the cheap “I’m just thankful to be here” promising manager instead of the “I need a new squad to win things now” proven manager. So Thomas Frank
An upgrade on Fabinho or Henderson isn't really a benchmark to buy any longer. Fabinho in particular is truly terrible. They thought they'd get Bellingham if they wait a year, but hey.
Jorginho is the exact opposite of what they need in midfield.
I completely disagree. They need anybody, bodies and numbers.
Now they’re playing some 18 year old kid and their only ball playing midfielder has become a fraud at doing exactly that. For 10m they should have been right in there.
Henderson and Fabinho are on long contracts with high wages. Difficult to shift them on quickly.
Think they're stuck with this lifeless football for at least another season and a half at least. It's not only the drop in quality, there's just such a lack of effort. It's bizarre how quickly they've lost motivation after winning each trophy just once.
Really puts into perspective what managers like SAF and Pep bring to the table in terms of keeping the players motivated. And even then Pep doesn't seem to be able to do 3 in a row.
I just think another body with no legs who is easily bypassed and on decent wages would be a waste of time for them. That midfield needs legs and grit. Jorginho is a tidy player, but him next to Thiago in a pressing system would be good fun to watch,