Agree with everything you're saying, just confused the way @johnny boy worded that. Why'd he think he'd get an especially constructive debate on a rivals forum?
Jurgen Klopp Sack Watch
- Thread starter Samid
- Start date
My reply to the other poster was a little sarcastic (maybe a bit daft of me), but if you read my post just above maybe that puts it into perspective?
I don't see why we can't have some sensible discussion amidst all the rivalry & I have had plenty of that on here (not all the time granted!).
Just read the transcript again and yes he may have ment any title but i cant really see him thinking of anything else than the Pl and maybe the cl. A fa Cup in four years is no big achievement - You wouldnt call our last three years a sucess
But the standards at United are quite different to those at Liverpool. Obviously top four is the main goal for them, but given all they've won in the last 10 seasons is 1 League Cup I'd say even the FA Cup would be a significant achievement.
yeah. You may have a point there
I'm all for constructive debate, but am confused why you'd think you'd get it at a rivals forum.
Why not? Redcafe is one of the best forum when it comes to discussing any team. Non ManUtd fans contribute a lot and it's always interesting to read sensible posts from other club fans.
Hey johnnyboy, you dont have to reply to everything that's being posted in this thread. Makes you seem a tad touchy
'It's like Russian roulette': Jurgen Klopp's training methods criticised after Coutinho injury
Interesting theory and there does seem to be evidence to support Verheijen. The twenty hamstring injuries in 10 months is very concerning. We'll see how our injuries develop as the season goes on. Coutinho was hardly a stranger to injuries prior to Klopp's arrival though.
For the record, Coutinho did have cramp against Arsenal and he was fine to play against Burnley six days later.
Finally the guy is slating some other managers. Wasnt he always on Moyes' back? Couldnt stand him at that time, appeared every month with his fecking analysis.
He does it with almost every major club and manager. I personally find it very enjoyable.
Apart from Mourinho (and Pep) who usually have outstanding injury records.
Isn't every single one of your players fit this matchday? How many times did that happen under LVG?
He has actually praised Mourinho's training scheldules in the past.
I actually feel there's too much 'serious talk' from fans of the respective teams in the RAWK/Bluemoon threads, but I'm not sure if that's you or another Liverpool poster!
Anyway, moving on to sensible discussion, where do you think you'll finish this season?
We had almost no injuries for the first month last season. Then the international break happened and Rooney got injured. Even afterwards I song remember a whole lot of injuries till December where people were literally getting injured on a daily basis
Klopps transfer dealings at BvB are really impressive. You have to wonder though why he hasnt bought any of his former players.
http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/jurgen-klopp/spielertransfers/trainer/118/plus/0?station_id=12366
http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/jurgen-klopp/spielertransfers/trainer/118/plus/0?station_id=12366
I remember i read it somewhere that most of those signings are down to the board (Watzke?) and the few transfers like Immobile which were recommended by Klopp were failures or not that good. He's good at indentifying talent and coaching them but he's not that great in the transfer window, you only have to look this summer where he managed to replace Liverpool's old dross with new one.
Also Dortmund has done just as well with signing great talents since Klopp left as before.
I'd like to know if he was actually responsible for identification of the transfers.
It's a shame such a talented manager had to go to this shithole club.
Good point!
Watzke and Zorc signed players.
Yeah, every low quality player at Dortmund was signed by Klopp, every great one by the board!
Klopp has already signed four for Liverpool who will most likely be looked upon as exceptional players - Mane, Karius, Matip and Grujic.
Klopp has already signed four for Liverpool who will most likely be looked upon as exceptional players - Mane, Karius, Matip and Grujic.
How many people do you see blaming Klopp for Immobile?
Previous post from Dortmund fan Sphaero -
The final call was a group decision amongst the three of them. Every party had the chance to veto. As far as I know there are two cases which became public of that happening. The first one was the wish of Zorc and Watzke to replace Lewandowski with Mario Mandzukic, which was vetoed by Klopp as he was not a fan of the Croatians personality. The other one was Zorc vetoing Klopp´s plan to sell Aubameyang after his first less than ideal year with us.
Normally, the process of recruting at Dortmund worked along these lines:
1. Klopp expressed to Zorc wishes of certain player types and profiles which he liked to implement in the following season
2. Zorc gave out the profiles to the scouts and eventually compiled a list of potential candidates which was given to Watzke
3. Watzke checked the list from the financial aspect and narrowed it down to the realistic options.
4. Klopp and his co coaches viewed material themselves (sometimes visited live games).
5. The three came together the first time and see if there was consent between them. First chance to veto by either party.
6. Watzke/Zorc or other officials approached players and agents if there was interest in joining Dortmund and the clubs under what circumstances they were willing to sell.
7. Klopp talked with the players themselves, assessed their personality/motivation and sometimes tried to persuade them to join.
8. The chosen candidate was discussed a second time between the three of them with the second chance to veto.
9. Personal terms of the players were finalised by Zorc and neogtiations with the clubs were held by either Zorc or Watzke (mostly the former).
That is of course the regular case. There were also cases where players were directly suggested by Klopp. Neven Subotic and Ciro Immobile forexample were such cases.
We've all seen Mane play and most of us would agree that he's a very good signing for you guys. Probably the best Liverpool signing since Suarez. Karius, well he is an upgrade on Mignolet I suppose. I've only watched Matip in a few games but I don't recall him standing out. I've never seen Grujic play.
It would be interesting to know what Liverpool fans think is the ceiling for each of the signings under Klopp this summer. Do they have the potential to one day go on to be considered some of the best players in their respective positions like Gundogan, Hummels, Miki, Lewandowski, Kagawa(first stint at BVB) etc.?
It is of course far too convinient and simple to credit our good signings to the board and discredit Klopp for the less good ones. Like I said before in this thread every signing in the Klopp era had his input at one point or another and his reputation as top coach was a major pulling power for us.
However, what is also true is that we have absolute experts in the managing positions and one of the best scouting networks including one of the best head scouts in the business.
As for the question why no Dortmund player signed for Liverpool, the answer is actually really simple. For the top players Liverpool is simply not attractive enough and the ones we willingly let go tend to sign for smaller clubs than them. All the key players who left the club did make the step to bigger clubs. Liverpool with CL football would be around our level, Liverpool without CL is a backstep.
However, what is also true is that we have absolute experts in the managing positions and one of the best scouting networks including one of the best head scouts in the business.
As for the question why no Dortmund player signed for Liverpool, the answer is actually really simple. For the top players Liverpool is simply not attractive enough and the ones we willingly let go tend to sign for smaller clubs than them. All the key players who left the club did make the step to bigger clubs. Liverpool with CL football would be around our level, Liverpool without CL is a backstep.
Have a day off. Mane is a good signing, that's it.
From the above it seems Dortmund are a well oiled machine, but only really work well collectively as a team. If anything the scouts seem to be playing the biggest part yet getting the least credit.
Did Klopp bring any of the eagle eyed scouts with him? Were his number two and number three (can't remember their names) part of that scouting team - or had input?
Did Klopp bring any of the eagle eyed scouts with him? Were his number two and number three (can't remember their names) part of that scouting team - or had input?
"Exceptional"
I used the future tense,"will." Mane already is better than Mkhitaryan which is no laughing matter for you considering Mourinho wanted to sign him. And I'm confident the other three will also be regarded as among the best in the Premier League in their positions by the end of the season.
Klopp regards his assistants, Zeljko Buvac and Peter Krawietz as the best in the world. They help spotting the right players.
Question for the Dortmund fans. How has Dortmund's style changed since Klopp left? In some of the matches I've seen you look less direct and incisive, more patient. Is this accurate?
Arsenal finished ahead of LFC last season.
Arsenal are ahead of LFC this season.
And you think LFC are a better team?
By that reasoning, Stoke are the best team in the league?
Sorry man, I couldn't resist...we all have brain spasms from time to time.
By the end of the season though, we shall know just how had the better season, but IMO AFC are far better.
No he isn't.
Liverpool fans never learn do they.
Uh oh. Here comes the Liverpool player > Manchester United player. We already know how this turns out 9/10.
Oh, and Matip is shite.
Also for Germans and Bundesliga veterans you've got players who don't necessarily see the Premier League as a step up. Only reason to move really would be the money.
In terms of raw ability Mkhitaryan is vastly superior to Mané, especially when it comes to the witdth of their skill sets. Mkhitaryan is simply the way more complete player. This is just one factor, though, as the Armenian´s weak spot is his mentality. If he is not feeling well on the pitch his decision making goes down the gutter. Mané might because of this turn out to be the better big game player, but that is as of yet unproven.
Of course he does, he worked with them his whole career starting in Mainz.
Buvac has good connections to the east European market, but otherwise both assistant coaches are mostly involved in actual training and opponent analysis (Buvac in terms of tactics and Krawitz with data analysis).
Overall Klopp and his team was not that much in touch with the scouting department as this was in the DoF´s (Zorc) responsibility. I doubt Klopp uses many scouts from his time at Dortmund as the number of freelancers was pretty small and the core team around head scout Mislintat is directly employed by Borussia Dortmund.
The style has become more active and possession based with way more emphasis on technical skill and passing accuracy. Pressing and off the ball movement is still utilised but with less intensity. The overall game has become a tad less pacey and even more focused on wide play as under Klopp.
To put it in one sentence: The play has become more focused on the play with the ball than without or against it.
It's a daft comparison Mane and Micky whatshisname are completely different types of players.
You could argue that Mane has been the better player in the first three league matches (obviously). But prior to that it isn't even close. Mane would have to show it over the entire season before you could make the claim.