Now then...
Sorry, you were saying?
Jurgen Klopp Sack Watch
- Thread starter Samid
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Sorry, you were saying?
Now then...
It’s scouse Glaston.
So were dortmund
You're higher in the table because you have better players than they did, which means fewer freak results losing games you should have won 3-0(this happened a lot to dortmund on the other hand)
Mostly, it's the same team, for several seasons, having won everything there is to win. Hunger goes out, players start getting injured, fatigue(mental more than physical) sets in. That's how cycles end
My Liverpool mates are already giving it the let’s support Man City vibe for the rest of the season. With 16 games left. Lovely
Really interested to see how things go with Klopp at Liverpool now. Does he have the Fergieesque ability to revive a stumbling team over the next few years? If so he’ll prove himself or be one of the all time greats. If not he’ll remain in the second tier, the good but not the great.
I wonder will he concede the league if they lose at the weekend or would City have to win their game in hand before reality kicks in.
Looks like they won’t get the party he promised them when the virus is gone!
1-2 titles at Liverpool, punching above their weight for 3 years or 9-10 titles at a City or a Bayern or a Barca or a PSG?
Only just. Benitez arguably got Liverpool 90% of what Klopp has done. A CL win and almost a PL title. Houlier won you lots of trophies.
Stop moaning about injuries. Every team has injuries. Brighton were missing players last night. RAWK were crying about Allison being out, yet Brighton were also missing their keeper amongst others, they had a player come off injured mid-way through. You're not the only team with injuries. I've seen United compete for titles with every CB missing.
Your team on the pitch last night was miles better than Brightons, than Burnleys, than West Broms, than Newcastles, etc, etc, etc. I'd understand if you were playing City every week. But you're not even competing with relegation fodder. Thats not down to injuries, that's down to exhaustion, fatigue, playing under Klopp for this amount of time. A team containing Henderson, TAA, Robertson, Thiago, Gini, Salah, Firminho.... should be winning those games. You cannot blame it on injuries.
The whole world has been saying it for a couple of years but only now are Liverpool fans starting to concede it. You can't have it both ways. You've got a manager that runs your squad into the ground making you overachieve for a 3 year period. They're dead on their feet. City have been playing without their striker for nearly 2 years, they have played half their games this last 2 years without their best player, KVB, it's like you having Salah out for all that time. Yet nobody talks about their injuries because they just breeze through games.
You're a big club, yet you waited till deadline day to sign a championship player to cover your defence. It's not good enough when defending a title. You should have gone out and spent £20m on a PL level CB on 1st January, if you were serious about competing.
Lot of pundits are in denial about Liverpool at the moment.
Scouse mate told me it's a miracle where they are with the injuries.
Defence not their problem but he said aye but they hit the ball long stretch the pitch............so they a long ball team now and Gomez and van dik like scholes and pirlo mix of beckanbaur
Joking aside some truth In it obvious with henderson out of position, but they got big problems up front. The intensity not there this season. Plus Arnold who was the player who had their best delivery is playing like a one trick pony at the moment. They've got found out, every season is different but the lower teams they were hammering the last couple seasons know how to shut them down.
Same problems used to happen to us when we were winning league, always had to adapt season to season. One year free flowing, next year defence more than anything got us over the line nicking 1 Nils.............Klopp will need to adopt.
Scouse mate told me it's a miracle where they are with the injuries.
Defence not their problem but he said aye but they hit the ball long stretch the pitch............so they a long ball team now and Gomez and van dik like scholes and pirlo mix of beckanbaur
Joking aside some truth In it obvious with henderson out of position, but they got big problems up front. The intensity not there this season. Plus Arnold who was the player who had their best delivery is playing like a one trick pony at the moment. They've got found out, every season is different but the lower teams they were hammering the last couple seasons know how to shut them down.
Same problems used to happen to us when we were winning league, always had to adapt season to season. One year free flowing, next year defence more than anything got us over the line nicking 1 Nils.............Klopp will need to adopt.
I see a lot of signs of disintegration. Klopp is not known for rebuilding teams, so this season may be painful to watch for a Liverpool fan.
Lot of pundits are in denial about Liverpool at the moment.
Scouse mate told me it's a miracle where they are with the injuries.
Defence not their problem but he said aye but they hit the ball long stretch the pitch............so they a long ball team now and Gomez and van dik like scholes and pirlo mix of beckanbaur
Joking aside some truth In it obvious with henderson out of position, but they got big problems up front. The intensity not there this season. Plus Arnold who was the player who had their best delivery is playing like a one trick pony at the moment. They've got found out, every season is different but the lower teams they were hammering the last couple seasons know how to shut them down.
Same problems used to happen to us when we were winning league, always had to adapt season to season. One year free flowing, next year defence more than anything got us over the line nicking 1 Nils.............Klopp will need to adopt.
Always have been. Its mainly been long hopeful punts foward combined with tactics to get Robertson and TAA into very good positions. Once the FBs arent given room they cant do much damage.
Now then...
I’m delighted that the predominant theme of our dialogue comes about after our respective team has lost.
See you again soon...
Liverpool fans already have the knives out and some turning on Klopp. Trouble in paradise.
Thiago as good as he is has not helped Liverpool progress this season. If anything he’s a square peg in a round hole. Just not working.
So you think we can still win the title then?
This is just bizarre. "Almost a PL title" means feck all. Benitez has achieved less than 50% of what Klopp has at Liverpool, he doesn't even come close.That's overselling it. We should enjoy them being crap while we can but once they get their players in their proper positions and back from injury then they're still one of the strongest sides around. Where we should take solace is that a very good team has lost a year of its prime, realistically with a fully fit squad they should've walked this league at a canter, signing a 29 year old Thiago signalled their intentions for the season. Next step will be Liepzig knocking them out so we can avoid a flukey CL run.
Klopp's actual biggest task will be finding adequete replacements for players like van Dijk, Firmino, Thiago, Mane, Wijnaldum, Henderson and Salah most of whom will be 30 within the next season. Alisson too but he's a keeper and they generally last longer. It's hard to see him ever putting a team as strong as this together again, although I'm sure that's what our rivals always thought about Sir Alex. There's a chance he leaves before the rebuild is even done, his contract expires in a few seasons and he was already hesistant renewing his previous deal.
Maybe that's a Liverpool fan way of looking at this problem. You guys hadn't won a league title in 30-years, so getting one in the bag at all costs is warranted.
But as a Manchester United fan, if we burnt out our best young players, such as Rashy and Mason etc, for the sake of winning one league title, I'd be fecking furious.
Tactical fouler meets a team of tactical foulers. He will do nothing against City. Pep will have him covered
FACT
Liverpool are mid-table in the Premier League for injuries this season.
As in, there are nine teams above them who have had more injuries than them this season. There are 10 teams below them with fewer injuries this season.
ANOTHER FACT
Brighton had more injuries going into last night's match than Liverpool did.
Liverpool are mid-table in the Premier League for injuries this season.
As in, there are nine teams above them who have had more injuries than them this season. There are 10 teams below them with fewer injuries this season.
ANOTHER FACT
Brighton had more injuries going into last night's match than Liverpool did.
That's genuinely mental, I can't see it being many of them.
So you really think Trent Alexander-Arnold is "burned out" at the moment? You really think he has already played the best football of his career, aged 22? Wow. Young players can't even have a dip in form anymore these days without it being taken to the absolute extreme. Rashford and Martial would've been burned out five times already at Utd, applying the same criteria.
Not all injuries impact a team equally. Such stats are just meaningless - Utd could only have 4 injuries all season, but if it's season-ending injuries to Pogba, Rashford, Bruno and Maguire, you'd also be fecked a lot harder than a team with double the amount of injuries to their role / bench players.
Don't know why but i've crying all night!
Klopp OUT!!
Klopp OUT!!
Way, way too early to come to that conclusion but obviously agree to disagree.
Im not saying Benitez was as good as Klopp, but "less than 50%" come off it, they both won the CL, both won the Super Cup, Klopp won the PL and Benitez won the FA Cup.
You're protecting your current manager and ignorantly playing down one of your best managers in recent memory.
Klopp walked a league that whilst was commendable, it wasn't competitive. Nobody challenged, City were in complete transition which is paying off now, they'll probably win 2-3 leagues on the bounce.
Benitez battled the greatest PL manager ever and was unlucky to lose. Not only that, Klopp is now failing catastrophically in Liverpools title defence. He also makes no friends by being classless with every defeat or draw. Whether its the weather, the grass, the referee, the style of the opponents play, whether he goes running after managers barking at them. It's not a good look is it, are you proud of having such a classless manager?
The view that Klopp has created a dynasty based off a good cup run, and a title that was won without any real battle is just a bit of tinted glasses from Scousers. It's funny that most of the footballing world can see it, yet most Liverpool fans can't yet..... I just think in 5 years time Liverpool fans will open their eyes that he was more of a flash in the pan than they first thought. I've been posting it for a good year or so on here, that you can't constantly punch above your weight, run players into the ground, and now Liverpool fans act all confused why half your team has dropped like flies, and that teams know how to play against you.
It's not just a sum of trophies and come to a conclusion. Can't be stressed enough how big the PL title was for us, he reached immediate legend status when he did that.
I'm not. Klopp is not "one of" our best managers in recent history, he is our best manager since the 80s. Benitez is a considerable level below that, I don't think you'll find many Liverpool fans who disagree with that view.
Yawn. Like people were saying after they won it wit 100 points? Or like how people were talking about Liverpool after last season?
You can have your views about Liverpool, all fair enough. It's just that you shouldn't be surprised that a lot of us will think that they're quite ridiculous, given how black and white they usually are.
Klopp is an incredible coach, the best in the world for me. I wondered about the burn out aspect, more out of hope than anything else, but I do think we are beginning to see it. Of course they have had terrible luck with injuries, which has had an impact but the forward players have all remained fit and I wonder is the three previous seasons taking it's toll. Does Klopp have the hunger or desire to rebuild? Didn't he say he will likely take a break when his current contract expires?
This is the only serious post I have on the matter and I will return to laughing shortly.
This is the only serious post I have on the matter and I will return to laughing shortly.
Weak title defence. Nothing more than Conte achieved in the PL. Sadly City are the teams everyone needs to topple including us. Would be their 3rd title in 4 years.
Should have stuck to just laughing.
Signed a new contract just over a year ago which extended his current one from 2022 to 2024 - don't think he would've done that if he was thinking about taking a break soon.
City were wank last season after 2 incredible seasons, so many people on here were talking about them needing a full rebuild, Pep being done, and so on and so on. Now they're already back on top. Such fickleness is ridiculous imo, can't have one down year after a few years on top these days without being called "done", "burned out" or something along those lines.
So you reject the idea Liverpool need a shuffle of personal/rebuild? I'm not saying wholesale changes but if you want to be consistently winning the title you always need to be strengthening. Which Liverpool have not done this season, for a number of reasons. I do not think Thiago improves you at all.
You are right, not all injuries impact a team equally and yeah having your first choice centre back partnership injured is obviously a big blow. But then how to you explain City winning constantly with ease without their two best players? One of which is the top scorer in the clubs history. Also back in the last few years of Sir Alex's reign at United, every season for several years we ended up having to play Carrick and/or Fletcher at centre back for lots of games because our first choice centre backs (Rio and Vidic) and their back ups (Smalling, Jones and Evans) were made of glass and always on the treatment table. Yeah you have bad injuries but so do most clubs every year, you just have to get on with it.
Because they've been better than us this season. Our struggles are not (exclusively) down to the injuries, I've argued a lot on here that it's our attack that's letting us down, not necessarily our defense. Maybe losing VVD indirectly impacts our attack as well but there are pretty much no excuses for our recent form since Christmas. Just like yesterday, it's just not good enough. No drive, no infiltration, too much of pinging the ball around at the halfway line, ... If we wouldn't have stopped putting 2 or 3 goals past our opponents at Anfield, we would still be close to the top of the league. That's where our problem currently lies, the defense still has been fine/passable during our bad spell. But if you consistently concede at least one goal and can't outscore them anymore like you used to, then you're in trouble of course
I reject the idea that we are done under Klopp and completely burned out - don't reject the idea that we need to rethink some of our ideas and make a few changes here and there. Us not strengthening enough in the offseason is down to our owners (and Covid perhaps), and not Klopp of course. I agree that that has been a mistake, especially at CB. Jota was a good buy. Thiago right now (whilst obviously a class player) doesn't give us the boost that I thought he would, but on the other hand he can maybe help us get that "shift" of play that allows us to play a different style of football that becomes effective again.
Haha, the cafe is a weird place. You’ve got a number on here who are obsessed with players fatigue who believe a footballer is incapable of playing three games in a week without passing out with exhaustion.
Then you’ve got another half, who claim that if you rotate and rest young players you are “forcing them to compete with each other”.
The truth is it’s somewhere in the middle and every player is different and dips in form may be due to a number of things.
I really dont think a team with that amount of muscle injuries is just bad luck. I am pretty sure Klopps tactics will slowly run them over. Next year will be another packed program, and it’s not to Liverpool’s advantage.
This league is fecking ruthless when a teams style has been undoubtedly figured out.
Agreed. With TAA, I think it's partially down to long-term corona effects as well as his calf injury. The other part is down to being a player in a team that isn't performing as well as they have been, and that there's usually no one on the right end of his crosses. So both a dip in form and some external causes as well. But "burned out", "spectacular decline" or "has already played his best football" - not for me.
In my previous post, I was arguing that Benitez is not and should not be dismissed as "Less than 50% of what Klopp is". Don't confuse that as me saying that he is as successful/as good as Klopp.
But lets not forget....Benitez also reached legendary status when he won your 5th Champions League, he was regarded as the best since the 80's at the time. I'm simply highlighting that Klopp isn't quite as good as a very small population of football believe he is. You've not won 3 premier leagues on the bounce, its not a sustained period. You won a couple of cups and a premier league. You're not the power that a peak United, a peak City, a peak Arsenal, or a peak 80's Liverpool are/were.
None Liverpool fans are seeing a very predictable pattern here. Ive been posting for 12-18 months about how he will run you into the ground, I've mentioned Dortmund. Liverpool fans laughed it off, now some are turning. One of my very good friends at work who has been a season ticket holder at Anfield for 20 years openly discusses that he and his friends who attend games think that the Klopp era is likely over now due to his core of players peaking and burning out.
After City won it with 100 points, they had a lot of older players to move on, compare that strongest XI to this current one, and it's largely different. Their spine changed. Kompany, Walker, Fernandinho (positionally), Silva, Aguero, that core of winners needed changing. Thats why they were in complete transition.
They also don't appear to run their players into the ground, they play with a completely different style to Liverpool. They play like a breeze, they don't seem to break sweat, they make the ball do the hard work, they press less than they used to, they stroll through defences. Their style is far more sophisticated than Liverpools. They will always have more in the tank than Liverpool, they will easily outlast Liverpools core players this time round.
They've got, in my view the best CB pairing in England, the best midfield/attacking midfield, the best keeper, the best manager. Thats coming from me, a United fan, who strongly dislikes City and everything their modern success is built on.
I certainly didn't back Liverpool to go back to back at the end of the season, I saw the signs once you were clear for the title, I saw the defeat at Watford last season, the defeats against Arsenal at the end of the season, the 7-3 to Villa with no injury crisis, VVD was playing. Liverpool fans dismissing it as "crazy season". It doesn't matter. You still got spanked at Villa Park. They also didn't have their home fans cheering them on. The signs were there that you were over-performing. Now, some 6-9 months later, its in plain sight.