Jurgen Klopp Sack Watch

Dunkelheit said:
The only thing you could criticise is that he often loses in finals, but this criticism is ridiculous, because his teams were always by far the underdog. And when you bring a club from the 2nd league into a cup final, chances are that they will lose vs a first league team.
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That accounts for how many of the finals he lost?

What about when he lost v Sevilla? Bottled a lead as well.

He's an excellent manager but that's a genuine criticism of him and he needs to turn that around.

On another note, the way the BT interviewer puts his arm around Klopp (and Robertson) while he's interviewing them. What's that about? Best buds?
 
Josh 76 said:
This is where we don't get it. The team is based on rock solid defenders, two athletic ball playing full backs and world class forwards. The midfield doesn't need to be world class footballers. They are told do to a job and do it as a team. If Klopp had Herrera, Mctomminy and Lingard in midfield, you would still see the same performance and results.
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I'm inclined to agree with a lot of that too.
 
The bloke's still an interstellar rated absolute bellend who gets away with the bullshit & intimidation due to being a 'character' though innit.
 
Bubz27 said:
That accounts for how many of the finals he lost?

What about when he lost v Sevilla? Bottled a lead as well.

He's an excellent manager but that's a genuine criticism of him and he needs to turn that around.

On another note, the way the BT interviewer puts his arm around Klopp (and Robertson) while he's interviewing them. What's that about? Best buds?
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In those finals he lost, his teams weren't the favorites a single time, Sevilla included. The only time where I'd say the teams were fairly equal was when Wolfsburg met Dortmund in the cup final, but at that time Wolfsburg was probably the better team because of KDB and Dortmund having a freak run of a result (relegation spot despite being the vastly better team most of the time in the winter). Otherwise they've always been the clear underdogs. This is probably the first time in his career that a Klopp team is actually favored in the final. Let's see how they cope with it.
 
Bubz27 said:
What about when he lost v Sevilla? Bottled a lead as well.
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We were certainly the bigger name for sure, and had a great route to the final, but we were also certainly (at the very least, slight) underdogs in that game. This is a team that was spanked by Stoke 6-0 less than a year before the final and had Moreno starting for them (which proved to be ominous), up against a Sevilla team that knew how to win that Cup and had won two in a row.
 
Oh I'm not sure Liverpool were underdogs in that final.

I wonder if you could check betting odds for that game now, usually a good indicator. At best I'd say it was fairly equal.
 
Fair play to the bloke. The spirit his teams have is extremely admirable. His teams have achieved enough comebacks for it not to be a fluke.
 
There is a progression in our finals towards less calamity.

The first European final we had mignolet, Lovren and moreno. Moreno then put in a motm performance for his old club.

Second one, bit better as moreno and mignolet were now out. Still had Lovren who was shit and mignolet had been replaced by Klopp's biggest mistake in Karius.

This year hopefully none of them will play. And hopefully all three gone in the summer.

We've basically replaced the most calamitous trio I can remember us having in mignolet, moreno and Lovren with Alisson, Robertson and Van Dijk. Pretty massive upgrade.
 
Really the perfect guy to be fergie's successor. It's sucks that Liverpool now are one of the best teams in the world and we are going into our 7th season in the wilderness.
 
B20 said:
There is a progression in our finals towards less calamity.

The first European final we had mignolet, Lovren and moreno. Moreno then put in a motm performance for his old club.

Second one, bit better as moreno and mignolet were now out. Still had Lovren who was shit and mignolet had been replaced by Klopp's biggest mistake in Karius.

This year hopefully none of them will play. And hopefully all three gone in the summer.

We've basically replaced the most calamitous trio I can remember us having in mignolet, moreno and Lovren with Alisson, Robertson and Van Dijk. Pretty massive upgrade.
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I'm not Lovren's biggest fan, far from it. But I thought he played well in last years final alongside VVD. We could certainly do better though. Fabinho's more than decent back up in that position too, so maybe Klopp might not prioritize the centre back position in the summer's transfer window. Think we need another good, young, left-back as cover for Andy Robbo, & some creativity in the midfield area, plus an upgrade on Sturridge in the attacking areas.
 
Kudos to them. A bit like Spurs they didn't look to change everything overnight. They give their manager time to build his style with the players he wanted. Their learnt this lesson after largely blowing Torres money and Suarez money, and spent the Coutinho money in the best way possible. Spurs also blew the Bale money and have drastically reduced their spending in the subsequent seasons. It's okay to spend money but you must buy players that fit the managers philosophy and long term plan. We seem to be in a state of buying players due to who they are and not what they can do for the team. We don't need the next bunch of galacticos to play effective, attractive football, the Liverpool team esp the midfield unit is a classic example of the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. Do what they did, bring in clearly talented players such as Mane and Salah and make them better, improve them to the point where the Barcas and Real will want to sign them. Those players basically cost what we paid for Matic, they have had 2 seasons reaching CL final and could sell either for a massive profit now if they so choose.
 
hasanejaz88 said:
I have no doubt that Klopp would've gotten more from our squad. He is great at motivating players and making them play at above their level, which we can see from how he's improved the likes of Matip, Milner, Henderson, Wijnaldum etc. Ole was able to make our team play at a high level early on because they were motivated but since a poor run of form, he hasn't been able to get them back to their best. Not all Ole's fault obviously because it shouldn't take the manager to motivate a team, but Klopp seems better at that.
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You are correct but it did not happen overnight. Klopp took his time, they were not this good when he joined, heck not even in his first full season. I was watching them yesterday an dall the 11 players knew their role perfectly. It was a team game built by Klopp and not built by players. They did not rely on individual bailing them out. The way all the 11 players know how to press show how much time and effort Klopp has put on them.

I read somewhere Ole really tried to adopt Klopp's model in Molde and he did try here too but our players lack the fitness for that. This is where I feel Ole or for that matter any manager needs time to make this squad a hardworking one.
 
Josh 76 said:
This is where we don't get it. The team is based on rock solid defenders, two athletic ball playing full backs and world class forwards. The midfield doesn't need to be world class footballers. They are told do to a job and do it as a team. If Klopp had Herrera, Mctomminy and Lingard in midfield, you would still see the same performance and results.
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No, you wouldn't. That's where most people get it wrong and that's exactly the reason why Woodward changes his mind about coaches like a girl changes her clothes: Renews their contracts and then decides that they should not be backed in the transfer market, then gives the gig to someone else after a good run of results only to go back to looking glum in the stands when the whole thing falls apart again.

You don't need world-class players but can't just expect a footballer to be able to carry out any kind of instructions to perfection. I still remember the reasoning given by the Liverpool scouts for signing Henderson and Lallana: They both were among the very best at winning second balls and regaining possession in the league. Both were utilized heavily by Klopp who kept adding midfielders with similar traits. In Wijnaldum he found some decent play-making skills and Keita is someone who can offer a few things in the final third when in form. But these are all qualities which are added to a basic template: the ability to win 50/50 duels, the acceleration that allows you to put immidiate pressure on the ball, good anticipation in order to collect the second balls etc. And these are not things to be taught. They are skills and abilities just like dribbling and finishing. Lingard is so soft, he would get lost in Klopp's team. McTominay is very slow in the first few meters, so he's a no-go too. Herrera would thrive in Liverpool, that much is true. You teach your philosophy to a set of players who can make it a reality. Give Klopp Pogba, Matic and Mata and see the whole gegenpressing tactic being dismantled piece by piece.

The same thing would happen if you replaced Mane & Salah and Firmino with Martial & Rashford and Lukaku in Klopp's system. They would struggle to finish in the top-four. The amount of effort their front-three put in to regain/retain possession in the attacking half, their off the ball movement and their link-up play, all these things compensate for the fact that they don't get much end product from their (not world-class) midfield. And these are skills Klopp and the scouts identified before buying these players. They didn't just sign the first big name available and they weren't told by the board that they should work with what they have at their disposal either.

My greatest fear is that, by watching Liverpool, Woodard feels vindicated for extending all these contracts of the players who make up our "old guard": If Klopp can win the CL with Fabinho, Henderson and Milner in the midfield then there are no excuses for our managers. But it doesn't work like that, it never has and it probably never will. We are a motley crew of overpaid and underperforming pampered players. If Ole wants to implement a high-press system, he should make it very clear to Woodward that the whole face of the squad must change in the space of two-three seasons.
 
He gives his players incredible belief. Make no mistake, their squad is nothing special.
 
Adisa said:
He gives his players incredible belief. Make no mistake, their squad is nothing special.
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He does, but will it last?

Liverpool have been here before. Take away the extreme luck/diving that's probably been worth 9-10 points this season and they're a solid 80 something point team. Rodgers had them at 84 points and a close second. Benitez had them at 86 points. Houllier had them at 80 and ahead of us in 3rd. Each time they have played out of their skins and then fallen off massively the following season. If they don't win it this year and end up empty handed it's going to be very difficult to instill the same sense of belief a second time round.

If they do somehow win it then we're all fecked.
 
Coxy said:
Huh?

Blimey, if their squad isn't special - what does that make ours in comparison??
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Our squad is a write off. Our players aren't just bad at football, they're weak, passionless turds who have realised they shouldn't be at this club and look for every excuse to give up. Our club is poison.
 
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11101 said:
He does, but will it last?

Liverpool have been here before. Take away the extreme luck/diving that's probably been worth 9-10 points this season and they're a solid 80 something point team. Rodgers had them at 84 points and a close second. Benitez had them at 86 points. Houllier had them at 80 and ahead of us in 3rd. Each time they have played out of their skins and then fallen off massively the following season. If they don't win it this year and end up empty handed it's going to be very difficult to instill the same sense of belief a second time round.

If they do somehow win it then we're all fecked.
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Look at the team that played last night. That team has no right being on that stage. They're about to hit 97 points. I'm convinced manager in the world has a prayer of getting this much from this same side. His team's consistently look greater than the sum of its part. Liverpool might not be as good as this again under Klopp but it should not detract from the fact that he consistently gets the maximum and more from his players.
 
11101 said:
He does, but will it last?

Liverpool have been here before. Take away the extreme luck/diving that's probably been worth 9-10 points this season and they're a solid 80 something point team. Rodgers had them at 84 points and a close second. Benitez had them at 86 points. Houllier had them at 80 and ahead of us in 3rd. Each time they have played out of their skins and then fallen off massively the following season. If they don't win it this year and end up empty handed it's going to be very difficult to instill the same sense of belief a second time round.

If they do somehow win it then we're all fecked.
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They're here to stay. The only luck they enjoyed this season is that none of their most crucial players suffered a long-term injury. Their main issue is the lack of depth in certain areas. Their supposed "luck" is a nonsensical argument in my eyes. When you can turn up the volume, pin your opponent down and fill the opposition box with 7-8 players, you force mistakes. We did that plenty of times under Ferguson. One could also argue that City were lucky too because they scored with their first attempt on target in a string of league games (late in the season when the intensity of their performances has dipped a bit) and this gave them the opportunity to control the game better and find more spaces. But when your attacking options are as good as City's, this can be expected. We did that too under Ferguson.

Unless one of Mane and Salah is lured by bigger wages and (hopefully) fecks off to Spain, i can see them going toe to toe with City next season again. But then again, it will not be the first time they will lose a key player under these circumstances. They coped because they listen to the manager's demands and their scouts are doing a good job (knowing that the highest earners cannot be afforded). Might not be next season but they will find a way to be competitive again.

I was watching the game yesterday and i was thinking this: Their attacking trident can provide them with 65-70 goals p/s (all comps), their FBs can add 20 assists (or more), they know how to score from set-pieces. Just imagine if they could unearth a KdB kind of midfielder with their scouting, one who would fit right in Klopp's midfield but also give them 20-30 goals/assists from the central channels. Their first xi would be unstoppable, simple as. Their main problem under Klopp was that they couldn't keep their intensity in the second half of their seasons. They seem to have found a solution this season.
 
TheRedDevil'sAdvocate said:
They're here to stay. The only luck they enjoyed this season is that none of their most crucial players suffered a long-term injury. Their main issue is the lack of depth in certain areas. Their supposed "luck" is a nonsensical argument in my eyes. When you can turn up the volume, pin your opponent down and fill the opposition box with 7-8 players, you force mistakes. We did that plenty of times under Ferguson. One could also argue that City were lucky too because they scored with their first attempt on target in a string of league games (late in the season when the intensity of their performances has dipped a bit) and this gave them the opportunity to control the game better and find more spaces. But when your attacking options are as good as City's, this can be expected. We did that too under Ferguson.

Unless one of Mane and Salah is lured by bigger wages and (hopefully) fecks off to Spain, i can see them going toe to toe with City next season again. But then again, it will not be the first time they will lose a key player under these circumstances. They coped because they listen to the manager's demands and their scouts are doing a good job (knowing that the highest earners cannot be afforded). Might not be next season but they will find a way to be competitive again.

I was watching the game yesterday and i was thinking this: Their attacking trident can provide them with 65-70 goals p/s (all comps), their FBs can add 20 assists (or more), they know how to score from set-pieces. Just imagine if they could unearth a KdB kind of midfielder with their scouting, one who would fit right in Klopp's midfield but also give them 20-30 goals/assists from the central channels. Their first xi would be unstoppable, simple as. Their main problem under Klopp was that they couldn't keep their intensity in the second half of their seasons. They seem to have found a solution this season.
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The big difference next year is VAR. All good teams force mistakes but there will be no more dives or offside goals, which Liverpool have benefited from far more than anyone else this season. It has won them at least 2 games in the last few weeks alone.
 
Absolute tit of a man but also unquestionably brilliant. What he's achieved at Dortmund and Liverpool have him overtaking Mourinho (currently, not overall achievements) for me if he wins the CL this year tbh.
 
Adisa said:
He gives his players incredible belief. Make no mistake, their squad is nothing special.
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Huh? They have 3 top defenders, a top gk and 3 top attackers. The only place where they don't have top players is the midfield. Ofcourse, a lot of it is down to Klopp himself but still.
 
Hoboman said:
Question for Pool's fans - do you rate Klopp higher than peak Benitez?
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Even though he hasn't won anything yet, I do rate Klopp higher. Benitez was very hit and miss with his signings and making players better than the sum of their parts. His tactical decisions were very up and down as well. He was better at setting us up defensively than he was at getting the players to play good attacking football. Klopp seems to have managed both.
 
Random Task said:
Will you still feel that way if end the season trophyless?
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Yes.

Trophies or not, what he's delivered this season is better than what Rafa ever did.

Not better in the sense of "I'd rather finish 2nd and lose a final than win the CL" but in the "I think he's done a better job developing and managing this team than Rafa did or could have done".
 
Josh 76 said:
This is where we don't get it. The team is based on rock solid defenders, two athletic ball playing full backs and world class forwards. The midfield doesn't need to be world class footballers. They are told do to a job and do it as a team. If Klopp had Herrera, Mctomminy and Lingard in midfield, you would still see the same performance and results.
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I doubt. Klopp couldn't get out anything from Emre Can, Markovic despite their industrious display. I could remember Liverpool winning more games with Henderson in the no 6 role than with Can in the role.

The likes of Henderson and Wijnaldum are actually decent playmakers to have in the team and with Fabinho saddled with the no 6 role, it has given Henderson more license to roam. They may not be quality world class playmakers but it's better to have decent playmakers than none at all. Barca didn't even have any against Liverpool because Arthur who was meant to control the midfield was on the bench. Wijnaldum should also have been deployed in the midfield and not in the attack in the 1st leg.

Lest I forget, Wijnaldum had a good game in the central midfield for Van gaal's Dutch team that got to the 3rd place final in 2014 world cup. Van Gaal should have got him then but the board already gave him Herrera.
 
B20 said:
Yes.

Klopp is simply a more complete package.
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As a united fan im jealous of liverpools manager for the 1st time ever. Going toe to toe with Bayern with dortmund and making a close Cl final and replicating that with liverpool having their highest ever point tally and making 2 cl finals in a row and probably winning this one.

His lack of trophies can be held against him but he takes tough jobs. Guardiola is a genius manager but he waltzes into the best squads and gets a blank chequebook.

I more admire Klopps ability to make average clubs main contenders.
 
You want to know Klopp's secret?

He has plan.
The players fit the plan, the tactics, the team.
He buys players which are very specific in their skillset and how they work within in the plan.
He believes in coaching first, not dipping into the market unless necessary. He always talks about this in press conferences.

The expensive players were a necessity, but he did give Mignolet and Karius a chance to get better before buying Alisson.

Klopp and Liverpool should be a great case study for any manager on implementing a plan.
 
Infordin said:
This guy makes Origi believe that he’s Pele, and makes Henderson believe that he’s Matthaus.

There isn’t another manager like him at the moment.
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This is why many hyped Dortmund players failed elsewhere. He did exactly the same there with the likes of Großkreutz*, Kagawa, Götze, Sahin, Piszcek, Bender, Schmelzer, etc.


*He was not even good enough for the 2nd german league. Under Klopp he became a german NT player and world champion. Now he is playing in the 3rd league.


He really makes players punching above their weights. This is the best thing a manager can do in my opinion.
 
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It has to be said that having Brendan has a predecessor helped Klopp immensely when joining Liverpool. Stylistically the transition from one to the other wasn't a huge gap. Compare that to us, whereby we went from Moyes to LvG possession to Mourinho deep block counter. Their succession appointment in Klopp was a great decision.
 
Casanova85 said:
Thanks to Alba, I.spoke too soon. Yes.

Let's see if Ajax makes the same blatant mistakes in the final.
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It’s all banter mate I’m only playing :).
I’m glad you are taking it well. Anyway on to the game, I think the main Barca Culprit last night was Suarez. Should have scored that chance. But the weird thing is even if he had scored we would have gone on to win imo. Pique and Alba were atrocious and Coutinho is eating a humber pie. I also think Spurs are going through.
 
11101 said:
He does, but will it last?

Liverpool have been here before. Take away the extreme luck/diving that's probably been worth 9-10 points this season and they're a solid 80 something point team. Rodgers had them at 84 points and a close second. Benitez had them at 86 points. Houllier had them at 80 and ahead of us in 3rd. Each time they have played out of their skins and then fallen off massively the following season. If they don't win it this year and end up empty handed it's going to be very difficult to instill the same sense of belief a second time round.

If they do somehow win it then we're all fecked.
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I don't see why they would fall away suddenly. Their miles ahead of the other top 4 chasing pack. Everyone had said they are lucky not to get injuries in attack and when it happened they beat Barce 4-0.

Expecting another City vs Liverpool showdown next year.
 
OutlawGER said:
This is why many hyped Dortmund players failed elsewhere. He did exactly the same there with the likes of Großkreutz*, Kagawa, Götze, Sahin, Piszcek, Bender, Schmelzer, etc.


*He was not even good enough for the 2nd german league. Under Klopp he became a german NT player and world champion. Now he is playing in the 3rd league.


He really makes players punching above their weights. This is the best thing a manager can do in my opinion.
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Harsh to put Gotze, Bender and Kagawa in with the rest. But completely agree with Grosscheutz, was going to say the same myself :D
 
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