So who are you cheering on for tomorrow, or would a draw suit everyone else best?
Jurgen Klopp Sack Watch
- Thread starter Samid
- Start date
United win and Tottenham win, would like to see pool fail to make top 4
I think a Liverpool win is probably best from my point of view.
Hamann also gave Pep a 5/10 for his time at Bayern. He has.. err.. very high standards
Rodgers' points per game in 2015/16 before he got sacked after 8 games was 1.5 ppg. Klopp's for the remaining 30 was 1.6 ppg. Rodgers was on course to finish 8th on 57 points, but Klopp improved them and they finished 8th on 60 points.
I would say you are right in your assessment of why Rodgers was sacked. He missed out on CL qualification the season after their title challenge, and looked set to do so again, so they sacked him early in the season and brought Klopp in. Klopp then lead them to their worst league finish since Dalglish in 2011/12.
I agree that as an indication of strength and progress you want to be looking at league performances, but finishing 3rd or 4th every year without winning anything and without challenging for the title is not progress, it's stagnation. Obviously time is still on Klopp's side in this regard, but from everything he's done so far, I can't see him taking them further than that. Liverpool fans will likely and very understandably believe (or at least hope) that this isn't the case, and will no doubt have a number of good counter-points.
As I said, it's why you shouldn't be choosing either cups or league position. You should be looking to challenge on all fronts, every season. Obviously the league is more important, and possibly the easiest to guarantee good performance in due to the knockout nature of the cups, but success has to be measured by what is won, not by metrics like "finishing above United" or "scraping 4th".
The FA Cup may have better teams in it, but it also has many more far worse teams in it, so I'd say the relative strength of the competitions would make the Europa League a tougher affair. The fact that you can earn Champions League qualification through the Europa League but not through the FA Cup (which grants you Europa League qualification) makes it a bigger prize as well, in my opinion.
Either you've forgotten quite how poor we were before Mourinho, or you're deliberately being very harsh. We were in a decent, but not great state when Fergie retired. It became apparent very quickly that he elevated a number of the players in the squad to levels that no other manager would be able to. Bringing in Moyes as his replacement added to that hangover, and our almost total inactivity in the transfer market that season pretty much left us in a drunken stupor until Moyes was gone. van Gaal was possibly a decent choice to steady the ship and halt any potential decline, but he was only ever a short-term fix and was never going to be the man to get us back to the top. A seemingly scattergun approach to transfers (which we were all admittedly very excited about at the time) saw us bring in and let go of a number of players that we probably shouldn't have, all things considered. Three seasons post-Fergie we were without an identity, and in desperate need of some sort of kick up the arse and injection of quality.
Could last season under Mourinho have been better? Of course. I'd have much preferred to see us winning what we won alongside a decent, comfortable finish in the top 4. However, we won two trophies, one that we had never won before, and secured qualification into the Champions League group stage. This season, which could also be better, we have progressed through the CL group stages with relative ease, with a good chance of progressing further in the competition, and have spent much of the season in 2nd place (albeit way off the pace of City in 1st). To say that this is not progress from finishing 7th under Moyes, or scraping 4th under van Gaal only to get turfed out of the CL in the group stage, and then by Liverpool in the EL while finishing 6th in the league the following season is just an outright lie. In pretty much any other Premier League season we'd be in a title fight, if not leading the way ourselves, yet City are currently on course to get 103 points this season, which is 8 more than the current record for a PL season. You cannot account for that sort of form.
I will be content if United finish top 4 this season, progress through to at least the quarters of the CL (and depending on draw maybe further), and make a good go at the FA Cup. I will be happy if they kick on and secure 2nd, with the aforementioned cup performances, and very happy should we secure 2nd and win the FA Cup. It goes without saying that I'd be ecstatic should we win the CL, or by some miracle find ourselves back in the title picture.
Next season I expect a proper title challenge (because I can't see City having another season like this one), and as always, give all the cups a decent stab. Within the next three seasons I want us to be winning the league at least once.
*Wall*
Tottenham win, followed by not beating Arsenal in their next game.
That would keep all 3 teams at arms length, providing we beat Huddersfield!
I think you got me a bit on the wrong foot here. I meant to say that I cannot fathom how anyone can say that United made more progress THAN LIVERPOOL during the last years especially when also taking financial and prestigial aspects into consideration. Of course your team got better than the seasons before (I'd hope so since you spent as much as City during those years). You said you'd be happy with a top 4 finish and a good run in the cup, why shouldn't Liverpool fans be too with a much cheaper and individually inferior squad and more limited funds? As far as the next couple of years go, it is just much, much harder to compete as a 2nd tier team agains teams that are so far ahead in terms of budget. Your only "worthy" rival in the next years are City with whom you need to compare to, whereas those of Liverpool are Spurs and maybe Arsenal. Although Klopp is a manager that requires very little from his players in terms of ability to make his style work (compared to Pep for example), he is not a miracle worker.
I'm not really comparing us to Liverpool. I don't expect them to be challenging for the league, but I don't think it's at all unreasonable to suggest that they really should be performing better in the cups, regardless of their league expectations. His cup performances (domestically in particular) have been sub-par for a team in Liverpool's position.
I fully agree that our focus after this season should be the Premier League and Champions League, but I expect decent domestic cup runs to accompany them. The teams not in the title race should be looking to pick up silverware elsewhere, because that's what football is all about. Obviously you aren't going to win every season, but Liverpool's last trophy was the League Cup in 2012, and then you're going back to the FA Cup in 2006 for the one before that. United have won more silverware since Ferguson retired than Liverpool have in the last 12 years, with that looking likely to extend to 13 years unless they can perform a massive upset and win the CL.
The fact that United are being criticised for underperforming despite being 2nd in the league only to a City side showing unprecedented form, and having won three major trophies in the two seasons prior to this one (and still being very much in contention for one, with the same outside chance Liverpool have at another), while Liverpool are being roundly praised for finishing in the top 4 and looking on track to do so again just goes to show the differences between the clubs.
I'm not saying Liverpool fans shouldn't be happy with a top 4 finish, what I'm saying is that sooner rather than later, just a top 4 finish isn't going to be enough, and they're going to either have to go full tilt for the league or start picking up an FA or League Cup every few seasons.
Klopp came in with much hype about what he was going to turn Liverpool into, and given that hype, I think it's fair to say that he's currently falling slightly behind those expectations. He promised a title (apparently meaning any cup) within three or four seasons, and time is nearly up on that.
Oh, I'd definitely agree with you that in any case when they are "stuck" at always getting "only" 2nd-4th, there should be criticism allowed and I'm pretty sure there will be if that's going to be the case, because that means there is no visible progression as a club. However, the reason I think Liverpool is getting praised so far is because of some of those reasons:
- They are seemingly cementing themselves as a top 4 team. I felt that during BR's years for example, they were a 6th-8th placed team and rightfully so. They have been carried by an extraordinary Suarez one year and failed to compete for a CL spot when he was gone. With Klopp, there is a feeling that his system works even without superstars and that he can maintain this level even when the best players are poached by bigger clubs.
- They play highly offensive and entertaining football. I think there are many, many flaws in Klopp's approach, e.g. he still does not not how to slow down a game, how to constantly win against clearly inferior teams and he still trusts a lot of players that have been underperforming for a while now. But their football seems to be not dependent on the opposition but just how well they can execute their gameplan on that day. They batter big teams, they batter smaller teams, then they go on to look like a Sunday league team at the back and losing against the worst team in the league. I think there is a certain feeling of unfulfilled potential within their team and if they can get more consistency, they are going to be a force to be reckoned with. Whether this is going to be true in the future, I really don't know, he did it once at Dortmund but this is certainly not an easy task to do. United and Mou's record in big games has been abysmal for example, whereas Klopp's Liverpool gained almost thrice as many points against the top 6. Consistency is the sign of an absolute top class team, you have to be able to reliably win against "fodder" teams to compete for the league. But as a fan, people'd prefer to convincingly win against City and then lose against Swansea than vice-versa I think.
They are doing a good job, so are you. Nobody knows how both are going to fare in the future.
- They are seemingly cementing themselves as a top 4 team. I felt that during BR's years for example, they were a 6th-8th placed team and rightfully so. They have been carried by an extraordinary Suarez one year and failed to compete for a CL spot when he was gone. With Klopp, there is a feeling that his system works even without superstars and that he can maintain this level even when the best players are poached by bigger clubs.
- They play highly offensive and entertaining football. I think there are many, many flaws in Klopp's approach, e.g. he still does not not how to slow down a game, how to constantly win against clearly inferior teams and he still trusts a lot of players that have been underperforming for a while now. But their football seems to be not dependent on the opposition but just how well they can execute their gameplan on that day. They batter big teams, they batter smaller teams, then they go on to look like a Sunday league team at the back and losing against the worst team in the league. I think there is a certain feeling of unfulfilled potential within their team and if they can get more consistency, they are going to be a force to be reckoned with. Whether this is going to be true in the future, I really don't know, he did it once at Dortmund but this is certainly not an easy task to do. United and Mou's record in big games has been abysmal for example, whereas Klopp's Liverpool gained almost thrice as many points against the top 6. Consistency is the sign of an absolute top class team, you have to be able to reliably win against "fodder" teams to compete for the league. But as a fan, people'd prefer to convincingly win against City and then lose against Swansea than vice-versa I think.
They are doing a good job, so are you. Nobody knows how both are going to fare in the future.
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Liverpool 2:2 Tottenham
Spring along the sideline now you stupid fecking twat 
What a clown
When will he get a ban?
Toxic cnut.
Toxic cnut.
His interview should be fun...
Iffy penalties aside, it would have been a joke if Liverpool won that. They were as shit as we were the other day.
He’s an embarrassment. Can’t wait to see what he cries about in his interview.
Cringeworthy celebration considering they ended up with a point
Reminds me of that Moyes celebration against Fulham that ended 2-2.
I think we all know who Jose was talking about.
And the sarcastic applause towards the linesmen for doing his job was disgusting too but he won’t get criticised for it because he’s a ‘character’.
And the sarcastic applause towards the linesmen for doing his job was disgusting too but he won’t get criticised for it because he’s a ‘character’.
What against Huddersfield?
Klopp is so salty right now
Worst thing is, he never gets any sort of punishment so can continue to act like that.
passhun
As shit as we were against Spurs.
Moyes Celebrated the goal that gave us the lead 2-1, he never celebrated the draw.
What a clown, that sprint seems as amusing now as Pardews dance in the FA Cup final delighted Kane scored to ruin the highlight reel and inevitable media wankfest.
delighted Kane scored to ruin the highlight reel and inevitable media wankfest.Oh ok, I thought we were better in the first half. The second half we looked shattered and had no control on the game.
Klopp claiming the linesman wanted to be "the middle of interest."
Yeah was all spurs second half. Salah continues to surprise me, he's carrying you this season.
upstaged his celebration
What a clown, that sprint seems as amusing now as Pardews dance in the FA Cup final
I'm still over the moon
Bothered to read the other post again?
Klopp did the same. Prematurely celebrating the 2-1 lead OTT. Then we know what happened.
Have extra popcorn ready. Just little more salt on it.
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That's what I said, he celebrated early and ended up with the draw. Kind of like today.
From this
to this
Poor Kloppo not
to this
Poor Kloppo not
Woe is me Jurgen.
I like, really like, Klopp, but yea that celebration at 2-1 before FT had even happened was stupid when considering it was against a quality side like Tottenham who can score in the remaining minutes and ofcourse their own defense being poor lately.
But anyways, Klopp did well with his team today but ultimately got fecked by horrendous referring decisions, I'm surprised some people in England are still against VAR.
But anyways, Klopp did well with his team today but ultimately got fecked by horrendous referring decisions, I'm surprised some people in England are still against VAR.
Christ, imagine what he'd be like if he ever managed to win a trophy again.