Jurgen Klopp Sack Watch

Not sure if it's been pointed out here but he has a lower win % than Brendan Rodgers did after 134 games.
 
Alex99 said:
Rodgers did have the benefit of the emergence of world class Suarez, in all fairness.
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But he had young Coutinho who couldn't get playing time at Inter, whereas Klopp got one of the best player playing very well. Also Klopp got players like Firmino, Mane whereas Rodgers banked on young Sterling and Coutinho.

Both had their strong players and weaker ones.
 
Mihai said:
Was he better than Salah is this season?
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I don't like to praise Suarez because he's a biting racial abusing cnut but yeah he was miles better than Salah.

Salah has been good and scored an incredibly impressive amount of goals but Suarez was phenomenal that year.
 
Djemba-Djemba said:
I don't like to praise Suarez because he's a biting racial abusing cnut but yeah he was miles better than Salah.

Salah has been good and scored an incredibly impressive amount of goals but Suarez was phenomenal that year.
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Thanks
 
Kapardin said:
The fact is, Klopp hasn't been very good in the cups during his time at Liverpool. If you want to commend him for reaching 2 finals in his first season on "meagre resources" and "Rodgers' players", then it is incumbent on him to finish the job - he's made it that far, so losing the final takes away the sheen of reaching it in the first place. Then in the subsequent season, he had a fair crack at the domestic cups and failed again. Now, third time a failure.
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It is a bit funny how so many Liverpool fans insisted we weren't allowed to judge Klopp in his first season, because it "wasn't his team", yet now the 2 cup finals he reached back then with Brendan's squad are the still used as main evidence of how good a job he's doing. Never even mind the fact that his glorious league cup final run consisted of beating Bournemouth, Southampton then Stoke on penalties over 2 legs in the semi.
 
Despite what (clearly biased) people say, Klopp is building an impressive side at Liverpool. They are certainly a few players short still (especially that world class CM) but I think they could be on the cusp of having a very strong team. I personally think they will finish ahead of chelsea this season and predict that they may be the only team to provide any competition to the two Manchester clubs over the next few seasons.
 
TrustInJanuzai said:
Despite what (clearly biased) people say, Klopp is building an impressive side at Liverpool. They are certainly a few players short still (especially that world class CM) but I think they could be on the cusp of having a very strong team. I personally think they will finish ahead of chelsea this season and predict that they may be the only team to provide any competition to the two Manchester clubs over the next few seasons.
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Luckily for us, they're not capable of holding together all the elements of a strong side long enough for it to come to fruition. Suarez, Sterling and now Coutinho.
 
TrustInJanuzai said:
Despite what (clearly biased) people say, Klopp is building an impressive side at Liverpool. They are certainly a few players short still (especially that world class CM) but I think they could be on the cusp of having a very strong team. I personally think they will finish ahead of chelsea this season and predict that they may be the only team to provide any competition to the two Manchester clubs over the next few seasons.
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Is he though? They've just lost one of their best players and there are already strong rumours that another (Salah) is off in the summer. This, not too long after they've waved goodbye to both Suarez and Sterling. Their match saving subs on Saturday were Milner, Ings and Henderson. Their starting line-up can be quite formidable on its day, but even then the defence and midfield look fairly lackluster, even with the addition of van Dijk, but their strength in depth is way off the Manchester clubs and Chelsea.

They need a new GK, some new full-backs, at least one CM, and possibly another CB as well. With Coutinho gone, they're also relying entirely on Salah, Firmino and Mane, with little room for rotation, because contrary to what they'd have you believe, Oxlade-Chamberlain just isn't of the standard they expect up top. The fact that they're still not sure which of Karius and Mignolet is worse (because neither are that good), are still playing Moreno, have seemingly no idea who should be playing RB, and are still relying on Wijnaldum, Henderson, Milner, and now Ox to do a job in midfield doesn't strike me as remotely impressive.

Everything impressive about Liverpool's side is in their attack. Everything else is good at best, with a few positions falling the wrong side of mediocre.
 
TrustInJanuzai said:
Despite what (clearly biased) people say, Klopp is building an impressive side at Liverpool. They are certainly a few players short still (especially that world class CM) but I think they could be on the cusp of having a very strong team. I personally think they will finish ahead of chelsea this season and predict that they may be the only team to provide any competition to the two Manchester clubs over the next few seasons.
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I agree that attacking wise, he's a good coach and is building a good team even with outs like Coutinho - you can trust him to unearth some new gems. But even that attack looks one dimensional at times. He needs to - a) get a guidebook on building a midfield/defense for dummies, b) be more flexible tactically -- better teams will be able to deal with that attacking style quite well.
 
TrustInJanuzai said:
Despite what (clearly biased) people say, Klopp is building an impressive side at Liverpool. They are certainly a few players short still (especially that world class CM) but I think they could be on the cusp of having a very strong team. I personally think they will finish ahead of chelsea this season and predict that they may be the only team to provide any competition to the two Manchester clubs over the next few seasons.
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Please tell me which players make his side an impressive one?? I can at best see just Salah and maybe on his day (which isn't that often anymore) Mane, but apart from that the rest are just pure dross.

So I would honestly be open to hearing why you think that they are putting together a decent side, they have just sold their key creative player, and they have yet to replace him.
Keita looks good on the Bundesliga, but has yet to play for them, so his quality in this league is unknown, so best to leave him to one side for the moment.
 
Kapardin said:
I agree that attacking wise, he's a good coach and is building a good team even with outs like Coutinho - you can trust him to unearth some new gems. But even that attack looks one dimensional at times. He needs to - a) get a guidebook on building a midfield/defense for dummies, b) be more flexible tactically -- better teams will be able to deal with that attacking style quite well.
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Yeh I agree with you here. I do admire klopps style of play, particularly in big games, but he needs to learn how to change tactically sometimes even mid-game to make sure they are more solid and can see out results.
 
RedRom said:
Please tell me which players make his side an impressive one?? I can at best see just Salah and maybe on his day (which isn't that often anymore) Mane, but apart from that the rest are just pure dross.

So I would honestly be open to hearing why you think that they are putting together a decent side, they have just sold their key creative player, and they have yet to replace him.
Keita looks good on the Bundesliga, but has yet to play for them, so his quality in this league is unknown, so best to leave him to one side for the moment.
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I think their attack is class, Mane (whilst currently on poor form) is a top player that brings pace and goals. Salah likewise. Firmino is underrated by many, he is a good goal scorer but is also excellent at bringing the other players into the game. I think their young fullbacks have done well and look good and Van Dijk will prove to be a top player. To really compete they still need a new GK and a world class CM. With those additions the other players around the clan would look markedly better I think. Wynaldum for example is a very good player as in Can.
 
Pexbo said:
Luckily for us, they're not capable of holding together all the elements of a strong side long enough for it to come to fruition. Suarez, Sterling and now Coutinho.
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This is another good point and it’s true. Despite what people say, I don’t think they will miss Coutinho and they got a fantastic deal out of that. They certainly do need to replace him with someone but I think they will come in the summer.
 
TrustInJanuzai said:
I think their attack is class, Mane (whilst currently on poor form) is a top player that brings pace and goals. Salah likewise. Firmino is underrated by many, he is a good goal scorer but is also excellent at bringing the other players into the game. I think their young fullbacks have done well and look good and Van Dijk will prove to be a top player. To really compete they still need a new GK and a world class CM. With those additions the other players around the clan would look markedly better I think. Wynaldum for example is a very good player as in Can.
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Wijnaldum and Can are both passengers. Might like better with some truly class alongside them but currently they both look fairly dross, and Can seems to be off anyway by all accounts.
 
None of their CM’s are good enough and would all get exposed in a 2 man central midfield partnership.
 
TrustInJanuzai said:
I think their attack is class, Mane (whilst currently on poor form) is a top player that brings pace and goals. Salah likewise. Firmino is underrated by many, he is a good goal scorer but is also excellent at bringing the other players into the game. I think their young fullbacks have done well and look good and Van Dijk will prove to be a top player. To really compete they still need a new GK and a world class CM. With those additions the other players around the clan would look markedly better I think. Wynaldum for example is a very good player as in Can.
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Sorry but that is a big load of bunkum really, Salah is their one and only shining light now that Coutinho has gone.

Firmino is terribly poor, and only looked half decent due to Coutinho, the rest of the team really is just so poor, slow and they are just a one dimensional side.

They basically need a whole new squad if they ever wish to compete with ourselves or City at the highest levels of the game.

I would say that West Brom have better options in defence and in the goalkeeping department and they are currently second bottom of the league!
Heck even their midfield options probably are on the same level!

Salah really is the only player keeping their heads above water at the moment, once he leaves, which he inevitably will, (it is just a matter of when) then they really will be screwed.

They invest terribly and have done so for decades, so it isn't unrealistic to think that this will continue in the future.
 
RedRom said:
Salah really is the only player keeping their heads above water at the moment, once he leaves, which he inevitably will, (it is just a matter of when) then they really will be screwed.
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It was only a few months ago everyone on here was complaining we didn't bid for Mane. He is quality, although he's been quiet of late.
Its CM where they need huge changes. Henderson, Can, Wijnaldum are absolutely desperate.
 
RedRom said:
Sorry but that is a big load of bunkum really

I would say that West Brom have better options in defence and in the goalkeeping department and they are currently second bottom of the league!
Heck even their midfield options probably are on the same level!
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You got the first sentence right in relation to the later paragraph. As much as it's fun to take the piss out of Liverpool, to suggest that West Brom have the better squad in any area considering their position and performances in the league, especially this season, is laughable and bordering on wummery.
 
Mihai said:
Was he better than Salah is this season?
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Yeah definitely, Salah's banging in the goals but what Suarez did for the rest of the team was out of this world, his link up play alone would've put him above any Liverpool player for the last decade.
 
TrustInJanuzai said:
I think their attack is class, Mane (whilst currently on poor form) is a top player that brings pace and goals. Salah likewise. Firmino is underrated by many, he is a good goal scorer but is also excellent at bringing the other players into the game. I think their young fullbacks have done well and look good and Van Dijk will prove to be a top player. To really compete they still need a new GK and a world class CM. With those additions the other players around the clan would look markedly better I think. Wynaldum for example is a very good player as in Can.
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This post smelled extremely scouse until I got to the end. No way do any true scousers think Wijnaldum is any good and they're pretty much done with Can after his contract shenanigans.
 
TrustInJanuzai said:
I think their attack is class, Mane (whilst currently on poor form) is a top player that brings pace and goals. Salah likewise. Firmino is underrated by many, he is a good goal scorer but is also excellent at bringing the other players into the game. I think their young fullbacks have done well and look good and Van Dijk will prove to be a top player. To really compete they still need a new GK and a world class CM. With those additions the other players around the clan would look markedly better I think. Wynaldum for example is a very good player as in Can.
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"TrustInJanuzai"

David Moyes is still so bitter that He actually made a RedCafe account to piss United fans off. Even worse, He still doesn't know how to type Januzaj properly.
 
Drawfull said:
You got the first sentence right in relation to the later paragraph. As much as it's fun to take the piss out of Liverpool, to suggest that West Brom have the better squad in any area considering their position and performances in the league, especially this season, is laughable and bordering on wummery.
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No it isn't, Ben Foster is better than either of their goalkeeper options, then you look at the defence options, and Evans/Gibbs are very much better in their respective positions than what Liverpool have already.
Then the options that West Brom have in midfield with Brunt/McClean/Burke/Krychowiak/Barry are still better than what Liverpool have respectively in similar positions to them.

It really is just Salah/Firmino/Mane that means that they are doing anything at all decent.

Without Coutinho, I have no clue where their main hub of creativity is coming from? Henderson? Chamberlain? Can??

Salah cannot do it all by himself, so I can see them struggling more often in coming matches.
 
Schmiznurf said:
I'm beginning to think that januzaj fella is a liverpool supporter,
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Nothing wrong with what he started saying. Liverpool are great up front - it's at the back they fall apart. I'd happily see Salah, Mane or Firmino at ours.
 
TrustInJanuzai said:
This is another good point and it’s true. Despite what people say, I don’t think they will miss Coutinho and they got a fantastic deal out of that. They certainly do need to replace him with someone but I think they will come in the summer.
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Of course they'll miss Coutinho, in fact 2 losses on the bounce to Swansea and West Brom suggests they already do.
 
Seems Klopp is going to be relying heavily on Keita coming in and transforming the team. Almost to the point of Keita or bust.

If he flops (even if it seems unlikely it is possible) then Liverpool could be in big trouble next season.
 
RedRom said:
No it isn't, Ben Foster is better than either of their goalkeeper options, then you look at the defence options, and Evans/Gibbs are very much better in their respective positions than what Liverpool have already.
Then the options that West Brom have in midfield with Brunt/McClean/Burke/Krychowiak/Barry are still better than what Liverpool have respectively in similar positions to them.

It really is just Salah/Firmino/Mane that means that they are doing anything at all decent.

Without Coutinho, I have no clue where their main hub of creativity is coming from? Henderson? Chamberlain? Can??

Salah cannot do it all by himself, so I can see them struggling more often in coming matches.
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You can argue that their goalscoring papers over the cracks, but personally I don't think there's much between Ben Foster and their two. Foster is trumpeted above his ability due to his nationality.

If West Brom's defensive and midfield setup is 'very much better' than Liverpool's, how come they've conceded (albeit, only 2) more goals in the league*? You could argue they're on par, but after two-thirds of the season, the table doesn't lie.

*Almost a quarter of Liverpool's goals conceded came against one team - City.
 
Coxy said:
Nothing wrong with what he started saying. Liverpool are great up front - it's at the back they fall apart. I'd happily see Salah, Mane or Firmino at ours.
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Where would Firminho fit? On this seasons form Mane wouldn't get in. Salah has been great, but even then you're dropping one of Martial, Lingard or Sanchez.
 
Thisistheone said:
Seems Klopp is going to be relying heavily on Keita coming in and transforming the team. Almost to the point of Keita or bust.

If he flops (even if it seems unlikely it is possible) then Liverpool could be in big trouble next season.
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I've never seen Keita play but I find it unlikely he'll fill the creative void (to the extent) left by Coutinho, I also find it unlikely he'll be the shield that helps protect the back 4. Then there's the fact that it seems like he'll just be a like for like replacement for Cann who is currently Liverpool's best central midfielder
 
Thisistheone said:
Seems Klopp is going to be relying heavily on Keita coming in and transforming the team. Almost to the point of Keita or bust.

If he flops (even if it seems unlikely it is possible) then Liverpool could be in big trouble next season.
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I think the balance of the team will be so different they'll have to play a different way. LPool don't have a specialist DM which is a big factor in a) why they are usually great going forward b) sporadically awful in defense. They could sign the best back 4 in the world but without a DM I think you'll always leak goals in the Prem + strong defenses win the league.

The problem now is if they do transition to having a specialist DM, no matter how dynamic Keita is, it places more emphasis on their attacking players to create. I think they have a good group but it will be harder to isolate defenders one on one (you would assume they'll have one extra body back/one less forward) and defenses will sit deeper next season as everyone knows Salah's danger. Coutinho was one of those rare players who scored a good number of goals and assists so replacing him will be ultra important.
 
Liverpool's "let go" team and Wenger's "almost signed" team must be world betters.
 
Drawfull said:
You can argue that their goalscoring papers over the cracks, but personally I don't think there's much between Ben Foster and their two. Foster is trumpeted above his ability due to his nationality.

If West Brom's defensive and midfield setup is 'very much better' than Liverpool's, how come they've conceded (albeit, only 2) more goals in the league*? You could argue they're on par, but after two-thirds of the season, the table doesn't lie.

*Almost a quarter of Liverpool's goals conceded came against one team - City.
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It says a fair bit I think that we are even having such a discussion as this in the first place, and shows quite how poor at the back and in midfield Liverpool are.

I honestly do think that the players that I mentioned previously would be a step up from their respective counterparts at Liverpool.
The only real difference has been Liverpool's attacking prowess, and now without Coutinho, that has been taken down a heck of a lot, and the burden basically now rests on Salah, and him alone, as Mane and Firmino probably will chip in with a few goals, but the pressure will all be on Salah's shoulders to be the main creative force, and goalscoring person.

All opposition teams now really have to do is make his life difficult and you will stop Liverpool from doing 90% of their attacking play.
So apart from him, I will try and ask again, just who have they got now that Coutinho has gone as their main creative force away from Salah? As again he cannot score and assist goals, he needs help, but they do not have anyone else to do so.

They desperately need a huge overhaul of players, but thankfully from our perspective, that simply will not happen, as they have owners with zero ambition at all.
 
Coxy said:
Nothing wrong with what he started saying. Liverpool are great up front - it's at the back they fall apart. I'd happily see Salah, Mane or Firmino at ours.
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But look at the part where he says the fullbacks have done well, only a liverpool supporter would praise their defence.
 
TrustInJanuzai said:
Despite what (clearly biased) people say, Klopp is building an impressive side at Liverpool. They are certainly a few players short still (especially that world class CM) but I think they could be on the cusp of having a very strong team.
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He is building a side that can play his brand of football more or less successfully, but he isn't building anything impressive. Especially if you're looking what he currently has in his third season. Starting line-up against Swansea: Karius, Matip, Gomez, Robertson, Can, Wijnaldum and Oxlade. From the bench, you have one decent option in Lallana, or you can pick Solanke, Milner, Klavan, and mighty Ings.

If they offer this team to another manager, he would probably tell them to buy half of the new squad first.
 
Schmiznurf said:
But look at the part where he says the fullbacks have done well, only a liverpool supporter would praise their defence.
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The fullbacks comment is especially bizarre considering near every Liverpool fan I've encountered views it as a problem area. Clyne's disappeared, Flanagan's being locked up, and their only other options there are Gomez, Moreno and Alexander-Arnold, none of which are exactly shining. Milner was basically a full back for them last season.

The mentioning of Wijnaldum and Can was odd too, because Wijnaldum is regularly criticised by 'pool fans for going AWOL and they're all washing their hands of Can.
 
charlenefan said:
I've never seen Keita play but I find it unlikely he'll fill the creative void (to the extent) left by Coutinho, I also find it unlikely he'll be the shield that helps protect the back 4. Then there's the fact that it seems like he'll just be a like for like replacement for Cann who is currently Liverpool's best central midfielder
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From the little I've seen he's an all-action attacking midfielder. Great at dribbling and beating a man. He appears to be miles ahead of what they now have in that regards.

You're right in that it won't help their back 4. They'll still need to play (assuming Can is off)

-------Henderson
---------Ox -- Keita
Salah---Firmino---Mane

tomaldinho1 said:
I think the balance of the team will be so different they'll have to play a different way. LPool don't have a specialist DM which is a big factor in a) why they are usually great going forward b) sporadically awful in defense. They could sign the best back 4 in the world but without a DM I think you'll always leak goals in the Prem + strong defenses win the league.

The problem now is if they do transition to having a specialist DM, no matter how dynamic Keita is, it places more emphasis on their attacking players to create. I think they have a good group but it will be harder to isolate defenders one on one (you would assume they'll have one extra body back/one less forward) and defenses will sit deeper next season as everyone knows Salah's danger. Coutinho was one of those rare players who scored a good number of goals and assists so replacing him will be ultra important.
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I haven't seen Liverpool linked with a DM so just assuming Klopp will continue with the current system. And Keita will take Can's spot.
 
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