You kept your key players. You signed players like Salah. You finished top 4 last season. Stands to reason that you should expect to be challenging for the title. Yet you're already resigned to hoping for a top 4 finish.
Jurgen Klopp Sack Watch
- Thread starter Samid
- Start date
I think @Dumbstar has been refreshingly honest about this to be honest. Klopp isnt taking the same amount of flak because they have thrown in the towel as far as winning the league is concerned. They are in the same position as we were in for the final few league games last season - except they got there by October, without having a Europa Cup Final to prepare for. Its German efficiency at its best.
We feel a point away at Anfield is a decent result that leaves us on course to challenge for the league. They think a point at home against us is a decent result for them that leaves them on course to challenge for top 4.
I keep hearing this and it doesn't make any sense whatsoever. We've played with the same midfield three in the majority of the games we've played this season, including when we put four past Arsenal and Hoffenheim. Your last shot of the game was in the 43rd minute of the game - that's embarrassing.
He brought on two strikers and a wide player. Even if you're arguing that Sturridge/Ox for Coutinho and Salah was like for like, then it effectively kept an attacking system... attacking.
But fair fecks to Mourinho for throwing United fans this bone to cling on to in the face of a completely gutless display.
For example his reasoning could have been that the numbers advantage in midfield gave his team an amount of control and bite (in pressing) that was more valuable than having one more attacker, but one less midfielder to feed him. Or simply that those three had to be subbed of because of fitness/injury concerns.
It's absolutely fair to discuss or speculate about whether or not Klopp could've made different changes and how they might have played out, but to call them cowardly is either silly hyperbole or ignorant of the way modern coaches (can) try to influence matches.
Throwing a bone to the fans stuff from a Liverpool fan is pretty ironic.
Thinking back to the game, did Liverpool get a single shot on target in the second half? Damned if I can remember any. That's a fairly fecking embarrassing effort against a "gutless" team that apparently had no game-plan other than desperate last-ditch defending. Almost as though Klopp didn't go for the jugular after all, right?
Thinking back to the game, did Liverpool get a single shot on target in the second half? Damned if I can remember any. That's a fairly fecking embarrassing effort against a "gutless" team that apparently had no game-plan other than desperate last-ditch defending. Almost as though Klopp didn't go for the jugular after all, right?
There was that very good Can chance where he hooked it over the goal. Can't remember much outside of that though.
What impact would missing out on next season's CL have on the summer transfer budget of Liverpool? They've announced Keita already for £65m plus add ons, they need a solid CB, probably another CM (if Can leaves on a free), a 20+ goal striker and a 'keeper, to challenge for the title imo. I can't see them spending that much money yo make them into general contenders, even if they sold Coutinho for £100+m.
Why would Klopp switch from a midfield three to a two and then give Mourinho some manoeuvrability tactically? If we were the team looking more likely in the second half why would he throw that advantage away and risk United's midfield getting a foothold in the match?
The only excuse for doing it would be if he wanted to change something in order to win the game. But apparently both managers were happy to take the point.
Honestly speaking I think it's clever of Klopp to say what he did. He knows that's one win on what, 7 or 8 games? There are doubts creeping in on what he brings to the table. Saying what he said appeases his side of the fan base that every game is always a moral victory if nothing else. He just said it to be all high and mighty to his own fans knowing there was no 3pts to take home.
His constant moaning and bitchiness is going to invite some flack. Especially from fans of other clubs. He is very fortunate that he media still likes him, because his own work is mediocre at best atm. Did he improve a single player? Firmino might be the only one. He should focus on his own work and reflect how he can do better. He starts to look like Wenger who simply refuses to accept any responsibility for his results. He has certainly no reason to lecture anyone about tactics.
Do you accept it was also a gutless display from Klopp in that case? Seeing as it was more of a must win game for you lot.
No man, we do not want our rivals to sack their incompetent managers.
As long as Klopp and Wenger remain, we know that they won't put up a title challenge, which means that top 4 should be nearly guaranteed, going forward.
Now, the managers who I do want to see fired are Pep and Pochetino. If these 2 go, then a title win should be easy as pie.
If you want to look at it like that I think he can take some credit for Wijnaldun, Lallana and Mane as well, who all made a step forward under him as far as I can tell. I wouldn't call his work mediocre at best. Getting to the EL final after taking over midseason (albeit losing it) was a success, so was making top 4 ahead of Arsenal and United last season, not the kind of miracles he delivered in his earlier Dortmund days, but good solid work nonetheless.. He seems to have taken his problems in build up with him from Dortmund though, which pretty much rules any kind of title challenge and the persistence of such an obvious weakness does indeed remind me of Wenger.
But we were already on top and looking more likely to win it with a midfield three.
Going to a midfield two might've weakened our position and made it harder for us to win the game, making it a daft move tactically.
Taking out your two best attackers didn't make much sense either. If Klop really wanted to win, he would have taken off one of the midfielders. Yes it would have increase the risk of United stealing the game away but it would have increase Liverpools chances of goal too.
Ultimately Klop decided it wasn't worth the risk to go for a win and settled for a draw.
Swap the situation, I would have been very disappointed with Jose if he had decided to settle with draw against a liverpool side that, due to injuries, can't play more than 2 midfielders at Old Trafford. But I am positive that in such scenario, he wouldn't have hesitated one bit before going for a spanking.
You looked more likely to win it than us, but you also looked less likely to win than it would end in a draw. And taking into account how you fade at the end of games, whereas we tend to finish strongly, it is also a bit too simplistic to say you looked more likely to win it. Yes you looked better than us and were attacking way, way more than us, but I always felt the longer the game went on, the better our chance of snatching it. Which may have been exactly what was on Klopp's mind too, hence maybe he was happy to settle for the point at that stage.
The point is, Liverpool fans are berating Mourinho for not attacking more - which would play into Liverpool's hands. United fans are berating Klopp for not sacrificing a midfielder - which would play into United's hands. In the end, both managers declined to play into the other's hands and settled for a point.
United could afford not to win, and Liverpool couldn't afford to lose; all the ingredients for a borefest, and so it proved to be.
Thank you Klopp for signing the Ox, one of the worst pieces of transfer business in recent memory.
All this berating Mourhino crap - how is it the other team's fault if you don't win? But it is Liverpool and Klopp, tragic victims of non-football. De Gea spoiling everything by stopping the ball going in the net that time.
Any LFC fan knows deep down that's a huge disappointment for them against an off-form United, whose plan C was let down by a couple of key players having an off day. "Blaming" United in the way the media has is just hilarious and says everything about the Media/Liverpool axis and narrative.
Some quality b*llocks on BBC site, something like it was a game of chess, but that's not a spectator sport. Presumably that's except the people who watch Chess?
80% of the teams that come to OT come to park the bus! The onus is then on us to win against that.
Any LFC fan knows deep down that's a huge disappointment for them against an off-form United, whose plan C was let down by a couple of key players having an off day. "Blaming" United in the way the media has is just hilarious and says everything about the Media/Liverpool axis and narrative.
Some quality b*llocks on BBC site, something like it was a game of chess, but that's not a spectator sport. Presumably that's except the people who watch Chess?
80% of the teams that come to OT come to park the bus! The onus is then on us to win against that.
One win in eight matches - that's embarrassing.
Yeah, but they won the shots. That's what matters.
Whoera? Are you genuinely 12?
Loving the way the German lads still flock in here to defend /praise Klopp. It's so, so sad.
It's just do.ob to be fair and he's largely an hypocrite so it's okay.
strange comment from Klopp about that not being the Liverpool way. He obviously didn't watch them under Houiller or Rafa. He's also setting himself up for criticism if he goes to any of the big 5 or 6 teams in league and doesn't play all out attacking football. I don't even think they did that against us. Sure they had possession, we give them it. But there best chance was a shot from Matip. They didn't play the attacking football Mr Klopp would like you to believe. I know he's liked by the fans, but the truth is, they aren't any better now than they were under wee Brendan. In fact they'd need to watch they don't start to regress
My impression was that Coutinho and Firmino weren't able to finish the game due to flying back from international games a few days prior, and the same for Salah. Maybe he could've kept one on but I'm not sure.
I don't think Mourinho would sacrifice a midfielder for an attacker if he thought it would be detrimental to his sides efforts.
I don't have any problem with how Mourinho set up on Saturday, but I'm not sure it'll be enough to win the league against a side like City this season. They look a bit more ruthless in the big games they've played. Obviously United have only played us so it's a bit early to judge.
We have to win tonight. Anything less is useless to us.
So, which tactical masterpiece will Klopp present to us tonight? Which strategy will he choose? I wonder...
He will blame the opposition if he does not get 3 points and liverpool fans will blindly back him.
Just to add to this, in the equivalent fixture last season, Mourinho's final substitution (in the 75th minute) was taking off Darmian and replacing him with Fellaini. He had already replaced Carrick with Rooney by this point (and brought Mata on for Martial). So we're not talking hypothetical scenarios here.
Now now, let's not bring Klopp's teeth into this.Actually there was one overpowering and pungent ingredient.
@Dumbstar is the man. He personifies the Liverpool delusion perfectly.
You were never winning that game.
Ahh the moral victory. Stick it in the trophy cabinet next to all the dusty spoils of 80s pass-back-football. No wins in eight, a goal difference of one and a fight for fifth with Arsenal to look forward to. You can keep your heavy metal football pal.
What you're saying is you don't want to lose by adding more fire power by at same time open the game for us. That's Mourinho point. This whole "already on top" doesn't mean you guys would eventually score. Given your recent form and how we have endless of example of team being on top just couldn't score however high their possession stats is, it's reasonable to think going with same tactic and subbing inferior players in, you guys didn't go for the kill but being pragmatic in your own way toward the end.
In other game where you guys got desperate I remembered you guys went with 4 stirkers 2 wide attacking players with Coutinho moved to no 10 position. That's when you really want to win the game.
For all their 'apparent' attacking football in the 2nd half (particularly) I never was really worried they would score. We barely got out of 2nd gear all game, it's like we couldn't really be bothered to get ourselves up for these lot.
This moral victory is huge for Liverpool, I believe it puts them 18 points clear at the top of the alternate league table and more importanty it extends the lifespan of Klopp as their manager. He will remain in charge for another 2 seasons at least after saturdays moral victory.
Well it's obvious that tactics and changes for Burnley won't be the same as playing against United. Against Burnley you can throw everything at them because the likelihood of them hitting you on the break is less (due to the lack of quality).
I find it hard to buy into the idea that switching from a midfield three to a two (adding another striker) would've improved our chances of winning it, because I think that it would've strengthened United's position and weakened ours.
I'm not working under the assumption that we would've scored with a midfield three, but I don't think throwing another attacking player on for a midfielder would've helped in that game.