I'm a little impressed with their midfield play yesterday against Everton. Their passing is very assured and they move the ball well to create quite a lot of space for themselves. They do seem to struggle defensively when put to the test, but as long as they keep the ball they are pretty good.
Jurgen Klopp Sack Watch
- Thread starter Samid
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In what way did you conclude we are 'not a great team'?
I've lost count of the managers who have said after the game that this was the hardest game any team has given them.
Wijnaldum is a big part of that. Our passing is always more assured and quicker when he plays. Can doesn't possess this so we seem to suffer a bit more when he plays, for example v Bournemouth.
It's these details people haven't noticed about Klopp, instead focusing on Coutinho being our saviour when really he's just another cog. The reason Everton didn't attack us, at all, was fear of that passing. Personally I thought Koeman did everything right for 94 minutes but got caught by a sucker punch.
In the way only a close rival fan can conclude.
Neither side deserved to win. Both were incredibly poor in possession. Both made mistake after mistake. Both lacked any attacking impetus.
Everton were as equally tumescent. Liverpool were fortuitous in the sense that the ball rebounded off the post and into Mane's path.
I watched this game and indeed Liverpool's winner and was not left thinking, 'Liverpool have won ugly.' It was simply a staggeringly poor, scrappy football match, capped off by an equally messy goal.
Nothing more. But like I said, it is a valuable 3 points for Liverpool, which may prove important come the end of the season.
Spot on.
The word I use most often in association with him is 'fulcrum' which seems to be entirely descriptive of his positioning and distribution skills, he's effectively destructive too. A less attacking version of Lallana in some ways. Wijnaldum slightly deeper central & left and Lallana slightly further forward right.
The heat and passing maps are illuminating, most often showing how much of play both central and left goes through Gini. I see him as a critical linchpin for the attack. 96% passing success rate vs. Everton, in a very tight and congested midfield.
Klopp & Co's only transfer window so far (exclude the first one since they were still assessing the squad and didn't buy anyone) has been pretty much a great success ; Wijnaldum, Mane, Matip, and Klavan all major contributors to this season. Karius is off to a rocky start but there's a lot of hope remaining he could yet turn into something positive.
Klavan vs Everton
88% pass accuracy
100% tackles won
7 clearances
3 interceptions
1 block
They didn't win ugly but were staggeringly poor. Ok mate.
Do you genuinely think you're a 'great team'...?
That seems silly talk to me, a 'great team' is a side that belongs in the upper echelons of the CL, and has quality throughout the whole side.
I'd say you're a plucky, high running little unit, sprinkled with quality but too ragged at the back and too naive to even contend a PL title over an entire season, let alone mix it up with the best in Europe.
You may well be right. When Liverpool get to dictate play, they are very good. When they are under attack, I feel they struggle more. The goal was a result of terrible goalkeeping and Leighton Baines' pathetic attempt at stopping Sturridge.
It was a 'staggeringly poor' football match in general, is what I was implying.
We do struggle under pressure. Problem for the opposition is how much pressure can they put us under without conceding 3 goals? Hobson's choice. Koeman did the right thing and with a little luck may have come away a hero.
Have said this in the past as well but having the big games at home in the second part of the season isnt actually a huge advantage,if anything it is a bit of a disadvantage because you have very few home bankers left then.
I would like to say this Lukaku and Barkley were piss poor but kudos to him anyway..
Margins are tight, and as you said, Koeman almost succeeded. I do feel that Liverpool also play with fine margins in that if their passing is a little off or they mistime their high pressure game, then the opposition can exploit that, and several teams have done just that. I'm curious as to how long Liverpool can keep up with Chelsea with their limited squad depth.
This probably isn't relevant considering Chelsea's ability to avoid getting a build up of injuries, but I don't think they're a lot stronger than us in terms of options to turn to.
If everyone is fit I'd say we've got more players to turn to that can come in without being a hindrance to the way we play.
Chelsea have a superior starting XI and two world class players in Costa and Hazard (something we lack), but I don't see a great deal of quality to turn to if they need it from the bench.
Is there any such side in the PL?
I don't think we are a great side in the classical sense. In the context of this year's league challenge, I think we are 'great enough' to sustain a challenge - In the sense of the quality we've actually played too.
Where united fans fall to cognitive dissonance is trying to reconcile the quality of our actual performances with what they believe we ought to be on paper and insisting that we'll surely fall away, etc.
We've not been playing great since the Southampton 0-0 draw. Before then we were blitzing teams without breaking a sweat.
What I do like this season however, is that even now when we aren't playing well, we're still picking up points. Everton, Swansea, Sunderland. Granted these teams are poor bar Everton, but we edged those games. Before we would have dropped points there.
I'm just waiting for us to kick into high gear again, reckon it might not happen until Coutinho and Matip return though
What I do like this season however, is that even now when we aren't playing well, we're still picking up points. Everton, Swansea, Sunderland. Granted these teams are poor bar Everton, but we edged those games. Before we would have dropped points there.
I'm just waiting for us to kick into high gear again, reckon it might not happen until Coutinho and Matip return though
Just because you are a bit average from what I have seen. I'm not on the wind up just being honest. I think we will over take you.
It's genuinely not cognitive dissonance, I think you started the season great, but look truly ragged at the back and without enough real World Class quality in attack.
I think that as the season goes on, you will look increasingly leggy and tired as is to be expected from the gegen-press philosophy.
With European Football you'd be all over the place.
And when you say 'sustain a challenge', last night you were seconds away from being 8 points behind Chelsea. You won't challenge for the league this season, but that's not a problem - top 4 would be massive for your club, if you end up getting it...
Please show your workings. Dortmund tended to get better as the season wore on.
We have 5 clean sheets in our last 7 games.
If the gegenpress (what even is that anymore) will exhaust us, then why did Everton look completely knackered in the second half whilst we got stronger as the game carried on?
It's just the standard narratives that get repeated over and over again when we win consecutive games in the league, without any proof of them being true. As for the challenge, I agree we won't end up challenging for the title but at this rate, who will challenge Chelsea? No one seems up for it, and like you said, I'd have snapped your hand off for a top 4 finish before the start of the season so anything better than that is just a surplus.
I honestly don't get that. Most teams we've played, our attacking quality has blown them away. We're playing some of the best attacking football I've seen from us in yonks.
What games have you seen? Burnley, United, West Ham and Everton? These are the only games I can think of where we've been a bit dull.
Deserved to win last night and at least Klopp had them looking to give their supporters something to cheer about. Unlike that miserable lot playing at home, summed up by that twat Barkley.
Think at this stage you'd be hard pressed to bet against them making the top four. Don't think the title will happen - still too many average players in the side but fair play to Klopp and his players, they're not letting that stop them.
Think at this stage you'd be hard pressed to bet against them making the top four. Don't think the title will happen - still too many average players in the side but fair play to Klopp and his players, they're not letting that stop them.
Where does the idea that we tire as games go on come from? There's very little evidence to suggest that this is something that happens.
Our biggest issue that I can see is that the fluidity of our football is weaker if someone like Coutinho isn't there. I don't think we've looked anywhere near as good going forward since his injury. Mane will be a huge miss.
I can't make my mind up on the defence. We've looked better in the last two games so we'll see how that develops.
Our biggest issue that I can see is that the fluidity of our football is weaker if someone like Coutinho isn't there. I don't think we've looked anywhere near as good going forward since his injury. Mane will be a huge miss.
I can't make my mind up on the defence. We've looked better in the last two games so we'll see how that develops.
Boro second half was as commanding as anything prior to that. We were excellent.
I was pretty happy with the soton game. They camped in their own half, we played some very good stuff and soton defended as well as any team we've played this season. We still created enough clear cut chances to win the game handily. 8 times out of 10, we win that game at a canter with a performance like that. It was one of those days.
Fine margins with us to some degree but we are where we are on merit, luck or good fortune has had little to do with it. Even though Chelsea have been on this almighty run they have had the rub of the green and have won by slender 1-0 margins in their last three games have they not?! They don't have a great deal of goals in their side, especially if Hazard and Costa aren't playing or on form. Fabregas and Willian have been big pluses for them recently but they don't pose enough of a goal scoring threat in the event of Hazard or Costa's absence.
With Liverpool we have four or five players who basically have an equal chance of scoring: Coutinho, Mane, Lallana, Firmino, and Origi. You can add Sturridge to that list as well. But they have more options in defense I think so that could play out as instrumental over the course of the season as well, not forgetting the £60m projected windfall from the Oscar sale which will almost certainly be reinvested right back into the side.
We are managing our injuries and absences better under Klopp, Firmino needs to be rested now (probably replaced by Sturridge) i.e. before Mane departs for the ACN, he looked tired and weary yesterday. Expect Phil to be back within 10 days or so as well.
With Liverpool we have four or five players who basically have an equal chance of scoring: Coutinho, Mane, Lallana, Firmino, and Origi. You can add Sturridge to that list as well. But they have more options in defense I think so that could play out as instrumental over the course of the season as well, not forgetting the £60m projected windfall from the Oscar sale which will almost certainly be reinvested right back into the side.
We are managing our injuries and absences better under Klopp, Firmino needs to be rested now (probably replaced by Sturridge) i.e. before Mane departs for the ACN, he looked tired and weary yesterday. Expect Phil to be back within 10 days or so as well.
When teams actually attack against us then it is a completely different game mate . S
Ive just google the word tumescent and it gave me a giggle .
The ball came off the post because we created the oppurtunity. Nothing jammy about that . We create our own luck just like we do in life mate.
Agreed ?
Everton are and were shite. Absolutely shite and dirty to. We tried to play football at least and we succeeded in parts. Look at the last five minutes especially leading up to the goal. We kept our heads and still played football . That lead to our goal.
Nothing jammy at all.
It's always easy to they say they were poor, however it's also a question though of a) were they poor because they had an off day (yes, in Barkley's case) or b) poor because they were owned (which I would say happened in Lukaku's case - by both Lovren & Klavan).
Perhaps you should look up the word 'fortuitous' whilst you're at it - given that it is defined as 'happening by chance rather than intention', you can't argue that your goal wasn't fortuitous. I used that word for a reason, as opposed to jammy.
But yes, you do create your own luck, so in that sense you could say that Liverpool did just enough to warrant the three points than Everton.
Describing the game last night is a case of deciding who was least worse.
He's been a massive improvement on skrtel as backup
Are we arguing we were lucky the ball hit the post? 
We were unlucky it hit the post, it should have gone straight in as it was supposed to!! 
It's Mourinho's blind man's argument over the ghost goal all over again.
We were unlucky it hit the post, it should have gone straight in as it was supposed to!! It's Mourinho's blind man's argument over the ghost goal all over again.
Haha ! As opposed to playing those big games away where your chances of winning them are lower ? Great logic.
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Think Liverpool had a similar schedule a couple of years back as well,point is in the bigger games it is always going to be tight and so having a lot of the big games at home would mean you will drop points at home and would need to win most of the away games. The fact is that there is no real mathematics here but playing say Tottenham at home & West Ham away is imo harder than playing West Ham at home and Spurs away
Had a look at Liverpools fixture list, and it seems they have a weird run for a while where they play one 'lesser' team and then one stronger team and this keeps repeating for a bit. Hopefully this works against them. If they stutter amongst these fixtures, it will be difficult to build momentum.
Christ there is so much wrong and ignorant with this post I really don't know why I'm bothering to reply but here goes :
Would that be why we have scored 5 more than any other team in the PL and 17 more than United ? Despite those teams boasting players such as Costa, Hazard, Kane, Aguero, Sanchez and Ibrahimovic ? World class quality can be as a team not just an individual. Talking out of your arse.
Seems you know absolutely nothing about gegen-pressing and it's implementation at Liverpool. I suggest you look up what the German lads from Dortmund / Bayern etc. have said right here in the Liverpool threads on RC before you embarrass yourself any more.
What an inane comment. We don't have a larger squad because we sold roughly 20 players last window simply because we don't have Euro football and didn't need them. If we did have then we would have a much larger squad.
But we aren't. Shall we separate fact from fiction ? That could apply to any of the Top teams in the PL who have won games in the last 10 mins or so of a match. A match is 90 mins + injury time. Scoring in the 1st or 90th minute is neither here nor there. Only the final score matters.
We are already challenging ! As are Arsenal & City. How far that goes remains to be seen but we won't not challenge just because you don't want to see it happen, deny it and then do the three monkeys thing instead
Your logic is completely flawed. The Q and A are both simple. You are simply ignoring the fact that we all have to play every team both at home and away, so with direct competitors for Top 4 would you prefer your remaining game against them to be at home or away. I really don't need to answer that. Or shouldn't.
Pretty much nailed it!Christ there is so much wrong and ignorant with this post I really don't know why I'm bothering to reply but here goes :
Would that be why we have scored 5 more than any other team in the PL and 17 more than United ? Despite those teams boasting players such as Costa, Hazard, Kane, Aguero, Sanchez and Ibrahimovic ? World class quality can be as a team not just an individual. Talking out of your arse.
Seems you know absolutely nothing about gegen-pressing and it's implementation at Liverpool. I suggest you look up what the German lads from Dortmund / Bayern etc. have said right here in the Liverpool threads on RC before you embarrass yourself any more.
What an inane comment. We don't have a larger squad because we sold roughly 20 players last window simply because we don't have Euro football and didn't need them. If we did have then we would have a much larger squad.
But we aren't. Shall we separate fact from fiction ? That could apply to any of the Top teams in the PL who have won games in the last 10 mins or so of a match. A match is 90 mins + injury time. Scoring in the 1st or 90th minute is neither here nor there. Only the final score matters.
We are already challenging ! As are Arsenal & City. How far that goes remains to be seen but we won't not challenge just because you don't want to see it happen, deny it and then do the three monkeys thing instead
It is rather weird but better than if we had back to back games vs. Top 6/8 teams. And then we finish with this below (as has been posted). If we stay in or around the top through that tough run then you'd expect us to pick up a lot of points from these games and remain, at least, in the Top 4 :
Everton (h)
Bournemouth (h)
Stoke (a)
West Brom (a)
Palace (h)
Watford (a)
Southampton (h)
West Ham (a)
Boro (h)