Actually there is a lot of discussion about his signings, he also got into conflict with Flick over that and a lot see him responsible for Flick wanting to leave.
Julian Nagelsmann | Sacked and replaced by Tuchel
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he got things wrong last night. but he will learn from it
What's his role? Is he like a Woodward figure over there?
Do people realize only one team can win the CL per year? And that the cup format is extremely luck based? Whoever loses the final will get called a bottler and a fraud. If Klopp loses he will have lost 3/4 finals and get called a bottler. If Pepe loses he will be called a fraud unable to win the CL with anyone other than Messi/Best Barca team ever. If Simeone loses, he will get called a bottler again for losing 3/3 finals...
Hasan "Brazzo" Salihamidzic is Bayern's DoF, so more like Murtough. CEO (similar to Woodward) is since this season Oliver Kahn, for many years it was Karl-Heinz Rummenigge.
Not really, only if you ignore any context whatsoever.
Let’s say Simeone gets to the final and plays Pool, Klopp will be heavy favourite and only the bigger team can really be a ‘bottler’ and even then you have to watch the game. Like yesterday, Real in my eyes are a pretty average team and Chelsea should have gone through but 3 Real goals were awful errors from Mendy/Kante. I don’t think Chelsea bottled it.
Bottled games for me are City v Lyon, Mónaco, Spurs for example or Bayern last night given over two legs Emery really stumped Nagelsmann. Pep often gets singled out but he does have the best managerial seat in football so that’s why, he’s not really going to be underdog against anyone until Newcastle arrive in 5 years or so.
My point is that context is important too. Bayern were in my opinion extremely unlucky not to go through last night, and blaming too much on Nagelsmann, when you really should blame luck, just doesn't make sense to me.
Klopp has been labeled a bottler for losing cup finals with Dortmund against an all-time-great Bayern side, there are tons of people on this forum, who don't have a shred of nuance in that regard.
I am not really sold on Naggelsman. What is his default tactic. 3 or 4 at the back
Also playing wingers as wing backs look silly
Why can't he swap Sane and Coman. Sane is pretty limited on the right and most times has to cutback to float one of the hundred crosses to no one
And we didn't deserve to qualify. We were not unlucky. Villareal created more chances and over the 2 legs should have really beaten us like 6-2
I think Naggelsman joined Bayern way too early. He still has a lot to learn and Bayern shouldn't be the place to learn
Also playing wingers as wing backs look silly
Why can't he swap Sane and Coman. Sane is pretty limited on the right and most times has to cutback to float one of the hundred crosses to no one
And we didn't deserve to qualify. We were not unlucky. Villareal created more chances and over the 2 legs should have really beaten us like 6-2
I think Naggelsman joined Bayern way too early. He still has a lot to learn and Bayern shouldn't be the place to learn
Agreed.
I think that's too harsh.
First of all being flexible and playing multiple systems is a good thing. 3 at the back is his favourite though, but right now the problem is, that we don't have a right wingback. That's why Gnabry or Sané played there in recent weeks and why we are so interested in signing Mazraoui.
Saying that we should have lost 6-2 on aggreate is hugely exaggereted. Yes, Villareal was way better in the first leg and we were lucky to only concede one goal. But yesterday we were really unlucky to draw, we should have easily won this.
The exptected goals statistic on aggregate is also in our favor. We were bad in the first leg, but we were also unlucky not to go through.
Poor’s man Guardiola
I think over two legs it’s harder to look past the coach when there is a big discrepancy in quality between the teams. Villarreal set up exactly how Nagelsmann would have known they would and Bayern didn’t exactly batter their goal and make their keeper pull off loads of top saves - I also think Villarreal squandered some great counter opportunities.
Assuming Pool go through it will be interesting to watch that game, given their current form you’d assume it’ll be a landslide win but you never know with managers like Emery/Simeone. Funny how La Liga teams now play defensively/get dominated off the ball versus the PL teams - maybe Emery is going to pull off a Di Matteo
Agreed but are you surprised? Some people genuinely decide which striker is better by pulling up whoscored and tallying up goals.
We do not have a wingback all season, how about he plays the players in the formation they are comfortable in and not switching every weekend
Aside the goal, the only elite chance we had was Mullers header
First leg Villareal had 4 glit edge chances and yesterday they had 2 which they scored one
All our attacking players have looked worse. Last season even without Lewy we played way better vs a PSG side. Crashing to Villarreal was embarrassing but I dread to think of what would have been if we progressed and faced Liverpool
We were lucky to get 2 early penalties vs Salzburg
5-0 loss in the cup
CL lame knockout vs Villarreal
Mediocre in the league
Jury is still out on him, but he got a very important learning experience yesterday. I don't think Bayern took Villarreal seriously and paid the price for that. And credit to the latter, they ran their bollocks off. Wanted it more and got it.
We took them seriously just that we were outclassed tactically. They reduced us to speculative shots in both legs. Even after we scored I was thinking we might need a defensive error or penalty to get a goal since we weren't creating much
Firstly, luck has a major impact on knockout football. Poor finishing cost Bayern, but they created enough opportunities to win.
Secondly, Nagelsmann is only in his first year. Many big coaches trying to change the way a side play perform poorly in their first year, as they don’t have the perfect personnel for the system and/ or haven’t coached the structure into the players. Guardiola got tonked 5-0 vs Madrid in his first CL season with Bayern.
Nagelsmann looks to be an excellent coach, but next year will be a better measure of him and his team.
Secondly, Nagelsmann is only in his first year. Many big coaches trying to change the way a side play perform poorly in their first year, as they don’t have the perfect personnel for the system and/ or haven’t coached the structure into the players. Guardiola got tonked 5-0 vs Madrid in his first CL season with Bayern.
Nagelsmann looks to be an excellent coach, but next year will be a better measure of him and his team.
Adorned fraud
Again, I think you're being to harsh.
Davies was a winger that was converted to a full back, how is he not a perfect fit for a left wingback?
Gnabry was also tested as a right fullback by Nagelsmann at Hoffenheim and Kovac at Bayern.
Coman also recently played as right wingback for the french national team.
It's not like Nagelsmann puts where no other coach would see them. And we're speaking about the positions winger or wingback, the difference isn't that big. They're basically wingers with more defensive duties.
Regarding the other points:
- The 5-0 loss in the cup was "once in a decade" game. We were very bad, but Gladbach played like they were peak Pep Barca, it was insane
- Saying we're "mediocre" in the league is very critical considering statistically (points and goal difference after 29 games) we play our best season in the last 4 years
Said clown beat many an actual manager...as they say even a broken watch is right twice a day. But actual managers are still gainfully employed at top clubs and laughing their way to major trophies. While......
They didn't really. Over the two legs Villareal had the best and most clear cut chances.
Last night Bayern were just clipping long balls into the box. About 40 crosses mostly from way out on the wings where they were never going to do any damage. Albiol and Torres were just lapping them up.
Most of their shots were from range, with only 2 on target from inside the box. They quite simply hadn't got any creativity in midfield to pick apart the defence Villareal employed.
nascar career awaits
I agree with you. The Bayern job is a bit too early for him.
I remember watching the Leipzig team against United and it was too easy to open them up, a ball in behind. Although the second game they won 3-2, United had chances in that game too.
Unfortunately, in the CL, you cannot give chances away to teams who are on the same level. I could see Liverpool or City scoring goals against this Bayern team.
He’s the best manager not named Pep, Klopp or Conte in the world. One CL quarter exit doesn’t change that.
Yup. Other than the Muller header I can’t think of what these great chances missed were. Villarreal could have been out of sight in the first leg and the final 15 minutes yesterday they had numerous good opportunities they didn’t make the most of prior to scoring.
Tuchel is better.
Nagelsmann doesn't have enough achievements to be at that elite level yet.
Currently, he's Pochettino, Ten Hag level at best.
He is a level below Poch and Ten Hag, they have shown to build teams. Nagglesman did a good job for Leipzig, they never achieved anything major.
Is he though? He's clearly a very promising young manager, but he's not better (evidently so) than his predecessor Hansi Flick, nor has he achieved enough yet to put him above the likes of Ancelotti, Tuchel and Enrique. You would also argue he's not a better coach than Pochettino and Ten Hag based on what he's won.
That's a bold take. What has he actually achieved to merit that kind of ranking other than being very young in a field that is generally older?
Ancelotti, Simeone, Tuchel, Luis Enrique, Zidane et al are all top tier managers.
Then there's guys like Hjulmand at Denmark who've even done more than Nagelsmann with much less to work with. Unai Emery, Gasperini, ten Hag, Rodgers, even Scaloni's worked wonders with Argentina. Knutsen at Bodo/Glimt looks a quality manager too.
Nagelsmann transformed Hoffenheim from a relegation candidate into a CL attendee (in just 1 or 2 years) and had Leipzig play more dominant football that led them into the CL semi finals.
So I'd say Nagelsmann also already showed he can build teams.
Once Nagelsmann wins his first national title I don't know how Poch or ten Hag should be clearly ahead of him.
Mind you, I wouldn't go as far as @NewYorkRed and label him as one of the best coaches yet. But he is certainly already a very good one and he will only get better with more experience.
Saving Hoffenheim from relegation and qualifying for CL the following year was absolutely amazing. In Leipzig he proved to be able to work at the highest level, but there the small question marks started to appear, as they couldn't convincingly overtake Dortmund.
I have not said that he is not a good coach. At the moment Poch and Ten Hag are ahead of him.
I mean its not really a big thing wining the Bundesliga with Bayern, I imagine you know this as well.
He has had the same issues with Liepzig which is defending counter attacks, they are very susceptible to them.
Its not something that is easy to rectify in the Bundesliga either as Bayern dont really face real competition in the league.
Well Poch is about to win his first national title as well. He also took spurs to a CL final.
Ten Hag has plenty of silverware in his CV, in a more competitive league and with less resources.
Jeez didn’t think I would cause up such a stir haha.
I’ll still stick to what I said. Maybe I should have put Tuchel ahead of him but my reasoning is esentially that he’s shown that he can work at the top level, he’s young, his style of play is great and he will only get better. I wouldn’t take any manager right now for United over him besides Klopp and Pep. Conte is probably better but his style of play is a huge negative.
I’ll still stick to what I said. Maybe I should have put Tuchel ahead of him but my reasoning is esentially that he’s shown that he can work at the top level, he’s young, his style of play is great and he will only get better. I wouldn’t take any manager right now for United over him besides Klopp and Pep. Conte is probably better but his style of play is a huge negative.
Nagelsmann is of course a very good coach but he's at an early stage in his career. Klopp for example had years to test, fail and fine tune his style of play. Tuchel is a similar case. Even Guardiola to a lesser extent.
As impressive as his career is up until now, it's essentially his first year of coaching a top club and he'll probably find out that not everything that worked at Hoffenheim or even Leipzig applies to the new situation because in the end, teams still play differently when facing Bayern than they did when facing Leipzig. He has to adapt to this new reality and that's not a given (albeit probable, unfortunately
).
I still think it's premature to name him in the same breath as Guardiola, Klopp and Tuchel. Ten Hag is a better comparison. However, I do think that his approach is much better suited to a top team than Nagelsmann's which lacks control at this point in time. You can't just steamroll teams all the time.
As impressive as his career is up until now, it's essentially his first year of coaching a top club and he'll probably find out that not everything that worked at Hoffenheim or even Leipzig applies to the new situation because in the end, teams still play differently when facing Bayern than they did when facing Leipzig. He has to adapt to this new reality and that's not a given (albeit probable, unfortunately
). I still think it's premature to name him in the same breath as Guardiola, Klopp and Tuchel. Ten Hag is a better comparison. However, I do think that his approach is much better suited to a top team than Nagelsmann's which lacks control at this point in time. You can't just steamroll teams all the time.
Nagelsmann is of course a very good coach but he's at an early stage in his career. Klopp for example had years to test, fail and fine tune his style of play. Tuchel is a similar case. Even Guardiola to a lesser extent.
As impressive as his career is up until now, it's essentially his first year of coaching a top club and he'll probably find out that not everything that worked at Hoffenheim or even Leipzig applies to the new situation because in the end, teams still play differently when facing Bayern than they did when facing Leipzig. He has to adapt to this new reality and that's not a given (albeit probable, unfortunately
I still think it's premature to name him in the same breath as Guardiola, Klopp and Tuchel. Ten Hag is a better comparison. However, I do think that his approach is much better suited to a top team than Nagelsmann's which lacks control at this point in time. You can't just steamroll teams all the time.
Nagelsmann is young, but he isn't that inexperienced especially compared to Tuchel, at similar stages of their careers.
Tuchel coached five seasons at Mainz, then two at Dortmund, then he joined PSG
Nagelsmann coached four seasons at Hoffenheim, then two at Leipzig, then he joined Bayern
Nagelsmann also gathered plenty of European experience at both Hoffenheim and Leipzig, wheras Tuchel only had a single (lost) EL-Q playoff at Mainz.
Klopp made the final in his second CL season.
I wouldn't overrate yesterday's result, but it's not like Nagelsmann can hide behind being a newcomer.
But those guys advanced their playing concepts. Both adapted more and more elements of possession play and grew with their respective teams. Nagelsmann is no pressing and transition merchant but to me it seems his approach needs some fine tuning. Bayern has serious ups and downs. Can only speak for myself but they lack this invincibility feeling they emitted ever since 2013 or so. You used to watch them play and felt it was only a matter of time until they score. And after it was over, you thought that no matter how lucky things would have gone for the inferior team, there was zero chance of taking away anything countable. They used to take only very small risks but created an impossible to overcome surplus of chances out of it. That feeling of resignation is gone under Nagelsmann. The team doesn't look like this relentless marriage of control and creativity anymore.
So I think Nagelsmann needs to fine tune his system to better utilize the qualitaty advantage he holds over most other teams. And Klopp and Tuchel already did this a long time ago.
I agree regarding Nagelsmann, but Bayern wemt through some phases since 2013 were they looked far from invincible. Usually shortly after they fired their managers.