Jules Koundé | Signs for Barcelona

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Judas said:
You ready to give up Axel then? Think I'd give him one more season.

Kounde's height doesn't worry me at all, but I'd love to see him against some more physical teams. Right now he's my number one defensive signing though.
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Axel needs to play, i am on my part not convince by his cameos except PSG, since he wont get a run of games here i think we should loan him for a full season in the premier league then it will be clear if the hype is worth the talent.
Regarding Kounde i think he should be good for us and when we play teams with real areal thread we can use Bailly , Kounde would not face areal battering against most teams in the league as well as in Europe,
 
Adam-Utd said:
This.

We need to move on with the times, having big slow lumbering centre backs isn't the answer anymore.

Every team at the top level play a high line with a press. Having quick, agile defenders that are aggressive is the way to go, and Kounde suits this perfectly.

He's also extremely comfortable with the ball.

Height isn't important as he makes up for it with a great jump, and he actually wants to head the ball unlike some other defenders.
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The last thing we need to be doing is giving the opposition more incentive to exploit our aerial weaknesses. Granted, the only time I've seen this guy is in the SF against Sevilla last season, so I'm not really in a position to judge him.

La Liga is the perfect league for a player of his stature to paper over any aerial weaknesses. I'd be wary he would be targeted by the likes of Burnley etc. Once you have that target on your back, its not how you want to go into each game, knowing the opposition know exactly how to get at you.
 
The hypothetical scenarios are pointless he doesn't struggle in the air for his domestic club don't see why it would be an issue for us. What makes Maguire worse is the fact that Lindlelof doesn't cover any of his weaknesses, it would be counter productive to put a tall immobile partner next to Harry he'll replicate the same flaws as witnessed with Victor. It seems the vast majority underrate Kounde and overrate others. By all accounts he's described as blowing Upamecano, Konate and those within that range out the water when it comes to talent.
 
Judas said:
You ready to give up Axel then? Think I'd give him one more season.

Kounde's height doesn't worry me at all, but I'd love to see him against some more physical teams. Right now he's my number one defensive signing though.
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Yeah I felt bad writing that name, he's disappointed me this season, I had very high hopes for him. He could have been everything we are looking for in a CB.

Thinking on it I'd lean towards giving him one more season as well. But we have to be ruthless now and finish this rebuild.

Yeah I really like the look of Kounde. His ability on the ball and speed would be great for us (and Maguire.) I'd like to see Maguire take the role of stepping forward and winning headers from long balls, rather than Lindelof, with Kounde's pace sweeping up. Kounde can also play nice passes from deep (Maguire can as well in fairness) and I like the look of those bursting runs forward from Kounde.

Like I say I have a good feeling about this lad. I think he could dovetail nicely with Maguire and bring the best out of him. Maguire clearly has his limits, he's not worth the money we paid but that's not his fault, he's still one of the best defenders in the league and importantly for us he's fit and available every week. I don't believe he's hit his ceiling with us yet, it doesn't seem to me that he's looked settled other than when he's paired with Bailly, if he has that in a partner week in, week out I honestly think he will kick onto another level for us.
 
Rossa said:
Why is him being relatively short such an issue? How many teams play with big attackers? Perhaps we need a rethink, and that having a nimble, agile and quick centre back that can keep up with small but rapid attackers may be a good solution. With Maguire, Pogba, McTominay and Cavani we still have players to defend our own box. Also, Evra was great in the air, and he was shorter. A great leap can compensate a fair bit.
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Those same players less Pogba were also defending our box when we conceded that feckin stupid equaliser against Everton.

Height isn’t everything.

Others have mentioned Puyol and Cannavaro. Daley Blind was fantastic for us at centre back, he isn’t tall either. Alaba does okay. Ivan Cordoba wasn’t the tallest but he was a fantastic CB.

It could be an improved version of the Smalling-Blind partnership. Maguire-Kounde.
 
Bojan Djordjic said:
I'd normally be with you on this because lack of height so often correlates with weakness in the air but his height doesn't seem to be detrimental on his game and Fbref.com has him in the 92nd percentile for aerials won per 90. That could be because teams are peppering his box with crosses to exploit his height but percentage wise he's no worse than Lindelof this year and was much better last year. I've seen very little of him myself but everyone raves about this guy and David Cartlidge, a writer who's views I trust compared him with Van Dijk before he blew up in terms of his impact and considers him the best centre back in the world right now.
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Think I'd prefer Fofana at Leicester. 6'3 in height. Premier league proven
 
Forfana would cost an obscene amount, he looks a massive talent though. We need to be buying these players before they come to England and their prices double.
 
I really don’t see much point in us throwing money at Kounde.

Our biggest weakness is crosses into the box and being physically dominated. We ideally want a tall mobile CB and Kounde is shorter than Tuanzebe and Lindelof.
 
BenitoSTARR said:
I really don’t see much point in us throwing money at Kounde.

Our biggest weakness is crosses into the box and being physically dominated. We ideally want a tall mobile CB and Kounde is shorter than Tuanzebe and Lindelof.
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And yet, I'm willing to bet he'd do a hell of a lot better in the air that those two. Everybody is repeating each other with the same point, and it's nonsense since there's been terrific defenders in the past that weren't 6 foot tall and could deal with aerial threats just as well, just like you have tall defenders who can't defend a header to save their lives and get constantly exposed. I would take Kounde in a heartbeat.
 
DannyCAFC said:
I think this guy could be the best option for United if he's available in the £50-60m. No idea what his actual release clause is as there seems to be a lot of conflicting information, was apparently €90m in the summer when City were after him, now it's being reported as €75/80m.

I know there are concerns about his height, but from what I've seen of him he doesn't appear to struggle in the air at all. Got a good leap on him and most importantly seems physically strong enough to win the battle. As pointed out earlier, Puyol was also 5'10" and he never had any issues, same with the likes of Cannavaro and Cordoba who were even smaller.

But the rest of his game really impresses me. Good overall defensive instincts, haven't seen many errors from him and seems very composed. His ball-playing ability stands out too.
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Puyol and Cannavaro never played in the premier league though. I am very skeptical that Cannavaro would have dominated the premier league in the way he did in Serie A and to a lesser extent in la Liga.

But Kounde is not as short as Cannavaro and seems to have much greater muscularity so I am not overly against him.
 
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I don't for a second think he'd struggle in the air.

Looks a decent player for sure.
 
lenny_1248 said:
Lindelof is as tall as Ramos, Godin, T.Silva etc. Does feck all in the end...
It's not just about height.
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None of those have played consistently in the PL and Lindelof is berated on here for losing aerial battles.

Height absolutely comes into it.
Sayros said:
And yet, I'm willing to bet he'd do a hell of a lot better in the air that those two. Everybody is repeating each other with the same point, and it's nonsense since there's been terrific defenders in the past that weren't 6 foot tall and could deal with aerial threats just as well, just like you have tall defenders who can't defend a header to save their lives and get constantly exposed. I would take Kounde in a heartbeat.
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You say that but how many sides in La Liga rely on the physical battle to win games?

Name me a world class defender in the PL in the last 3 years who was under 6ft?

How much of Kounde have you actually seen? He’s not a throw himself and die for the ball kind of defender.
bsCallout said:
I don't for a second think he'd struggle in the air.

Looks a decent player for sure.
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Why? Why would he be any better than any other short CB in the PL?

He’s not going to be tested physically the same way in Spain as he will here I really think this is a new shiny toy situation here.

Is he actually any better than Bailly was at Villarreal?

Hes a good CB but that doesn’t make him a good PL CB for United.
 
Just to illustrate my point further Lindelof has won 70.5% of his aerial duels this season would you say that is good enough?
 
BenitoSTARR said:
None of those have played consistently in the PL and Lindelof is berated on here for losing aerial battles.

Height absolutely comes into it.

You say that but how many sides in La Liga rely on the physical battle to win games?

Name me a world class defender in the PL in the last 3 years who was under 6ft?

How much of Kounde have you actually seen? He’s not a throw himself and die for the ball kind of defender.

Why? Why would he be any better than any other short CB in the PL?

He’s not going to be tested physically the same way in Spain as he will here I really think this is a new shiny toy situation here.

Is he actually any better than Bailly was at Villarreal?

Hes a good CB but that doesn’t make him a good PL CB for United.
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I don't believe that is essential to be 6ft + to be good in the air. The little I've seen of him he seems strong in the air. He attacks the ball well and more importantly looks strong.

Bailly looked very promising but still had to improve and ultimately it was injuries that ruined all that.

If Kounde stays injury free there isn't even a comparison.

He's not my first choice and I don't think I'd want to spend big on him but like I said he looks decent and I think he'd improve out defence
 
bsCallout said:
I don't believe that is essential to be 6ft + to be good in the air. The little I've seen of him he seems strong in the air. He attacks the ball well and more importantly looks strong.

Bailly looked very promising but still had to improve and ultimately it was injuries that ruined all that.

If Kounde stays injury free there isn't even a comparison.

He's not my first choice and I don't think I'd want to spend big on him but like I said he looks decent and I think he'd improve out defence
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I don’t see how signing a shorter CB who is worse in the air than Lindelof is going to solve the problem.

He might seem strong but guess what he has a lower aerial win % (66.7%) compared to Lindelof and he’s in a less physical league. Do you honestly think that’s going to suddenly not be an issue for us?

Im calling it for what it is Kounde is no better than Bailly was and arguably Bailly was the better player.

I am 100% convinced he is not the solution as he’s not got an outstanding quality that makes him a better prospect than even Lindelof. At least someone like Konate (84% aerials won 99th percentile for this) has both the height and ability on the ball.
 
BenitoSTARR said:
I don’t see how signing a shorter CB who is worse in the air than Lindelof is going to solve the problem.

He might seem strong but guess what he has a lower aerial win % (66.7%) compared to Lindelof and he’s in a less physical league. Do you honestly think that’s going to suddenly not be an issue for us?

Im calling it for what it is Kounde is no better than Bailly was and arguably Bailly was the better player.

I am 100% convinced he is not the solution as he’s not got an outstanding quality that makes him a better prospect than even Lindelof. At least someone like Konate (84% aerials won 99th percentile for this) has both the height and ability on the ball.
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Don't worry, I figured you weren't a fan. I think he is stronger and better in the air than Lindelof and his all round game is stronger. I'd think he'd be an upgrade but again I wouldn't want to spend big on him.

I like Konate but I don't think his injury history would put my off instantly.

My vote is Torres if we could.
 
bsCallout said:
Don't worry, I figured you weren't a fan. I think he is stronger and better in the air than Lindelof and his all round game is stronger. I'd think he'd be an upgrade but again I wouldn't want to spend big on him.

I like Konate but I don't think his injury history would put my off instantly.

My vote is Torres if we could.
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I think he’ll have a very good career in La Liga. But he’s not suited to the PL not as a CB.

What do you think the issue is with our defence that he solves?

You might think he’s stronger and better in the air but the analysis does not suggest this at all. It suggests he’s in the 67th percentile which means 1/3 of all CBs in the top 5 league win more aerial duels.

Pau Torres would get torn a new one in the PL. He’s 20th percentile for aerials. Lovely passer but if you don’t like Lindelof then someone who has 80% of top 5 league CBs ahead of them for that isn’t going to work.
 
BenitoSTARR said:
I think he’ll have a very good career in La Liga. But he’s not suited to the PL not as a CB.

What do you think the issue is with our defence that he solves?

You might think he’s stronger and better in the air but the analysis does not suggest this at all. It suggests he’s in the 67th percentile which means 1/3 of all CBs in the top 5 league win more aerial duels.

Pau Torres would get torn a new one in the PL. He’s 20th percentile for aerials. Lovely passer but if you don’t like Lindelof then someone who has 80% of top 5 league CBs ahead of them for that isn’t going to work.
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I think you look to stats to much to be honest.
 
BenitoSTARR said:
You might think he’s stronger and better in the air but the analysis does not suggest this at all. It suggests he’s in the 67th percentile which means 1/3 of all CBs in the top 5 league win more aerial duels.
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Stones - 74th percentile
Dias - 82nd percentile

Maguire is 93rd percentile. Stats aren't everything. If they work together well like Stones and Dias do then he doesn't need to be a Virgil van Dijk aerially.
 
andersj said:
Similar to Stones and Dias then.
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No as Damien points out they are a way higher percentile.
Damien said:
Stones - 74th percentile
Dias - 82nd percentile

Maguire is 93rd percentile. Stats aren't everything. If they work together well like Stones and Dias do then he doesn't need to be a Virgil van Dijk aerially.
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No they aren’t everything and I agree but if we are wanting a better player aerially than Lindelof why are we looking at worse players aerially?

Lindelof is 81st percentile so to say he’s no good aerially is to then remove 80% of top 5 league CBs.
 
The two big issues are he’s probably most expensive option and his height. He looks good in the air in La Liga despite his height but it’s a bigger issue in Premier League. Also Maguire likes to drop and hold very deep positions and DDG doesn’t like coming off his line so ideally he’d be taller.

He does tick a lot of boxes though and there aren’t a lot of great options who can cover for Maguire’s limitations.
 
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BenitoSTARR said:
You say that but how many sides in La Liga rely on the physical battle to win games? 2. Getafe and Athletic Bilbao

How much of Kounde have you actually seen? He’s not a throw himself and die for the ball kind of defender. because he doesn't need to

He’s not going to be tested physically the same way in Spain as he will here I really think this is a new shiny toy situation here. True

Is he actually any better than Bailly was at Villarreal? Yes, are you serious? Bailly was a promising young defender. Kounde is the best in the league

Hes a good CB but that doesn’t make him a good PL CB for United. I think he'd be amazing for City. Anyone else in the PL and i'd worry about the refs
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giorno said:
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So he’s not being physically tested in the same way.

I could argue Lindelof doesn’t need to but then every fan talks about wanting a proactive defender so again new shiny toy syndrome.

You seriously believe Kounde is the best CB in La Liga? He’s not even the best in Sevilla.

He might do well for City but look at Uniteds issues that need solving Kounde does not come into this side and solve those issues. It would be a pointless waste of a signing.

Hes a really good La Liga defender and I’m sure would be right at home at Real Madrid one day if he’s very lucky but not for me at United.
 
Damien said:
Don't tell me you think Carlos is? I watched Sevilla in the Europa League last season and thought he was awful in the run up to the final giving away penalties in each game.
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Of course he does, he only likes 'throw yourself at the ball and die' defenders remember? Not one's who defend with rationale and actual skill.
 
Can't we just buy this guy for CDM and then buy another CB to partner Maguire? Seems to have all the attributes to be a brilliant defensive midfielder and is young enough to be converted. A guy like that would free Pogba up to be as attacking as he wants.
 
DannyCAFC said:
Of course he does, he only likes 'throw yourself at the ball and die' defenders remember? Not one's who defend with rationale and actual skill.
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:lol: :lol: :lol: couldn’t be further from the truth.

Ok so you’re saying if we had a defender who wasn’t all out physical and was defending with rationale and skill that would be good?

So why the hell does everyone hate on Lindelof?

Essentially my point is Kounde isn’t the answer. He’s a good CB but no our solution
 
I'm really not that keen on him... and it's purely because of height. He's tiny for a CB for the premier league. Let's not kid ourselves and pretend like it wouldn't be an issue. It'd be worse aerially than it is with Lindelof now and he's weak in the air.

It's like when we were signing Maguire and loads ignored the pace issue saying it can be covered up... well it's far from ideal to have 1 CB with 0 pace and the other with no aerial ability. We'd have a £160m partnership where 1 of the CBs has to always make up for the others significant physical weakness. It's hard to find them, but if we're paying a ~world record fee, you might as well go for a centerback that doesn't have a significant weakness. Surely can't be that hard to find a centerback that has at least normal pace, is tall enough/strong enough to handle himself in the air against forwards, and has at least average on the ball ability?
 
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