Jude Bellingham

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cyberman said:
Your post is all over the place buddy. He joined a side who barely scrapped fourth last year and who’s performances have been all over the place to the point they just got embarrassed by Rangers over two legs. In a game where Jude was caught shouting at teammates that they were shit and couldn’t pass a ball straight. Go on any Dortmund / football sub and they’ll tell you the same thing. The the squad needs an overhaul and the manager is close to being gone soon.
There’s a lot of reason why he may have went to Dortmund but being a future car crash savant isn’t one of them.
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So now we’re throwing every bit of mud at the wall you can find to further move on from what apparently drew your ire in the first place. Return the topic lad. He chose Dortmund over United & is now being touted with a move for multiple millions to better sides all whilst having been a player we could have done with.

The rangers tie is irrelevant, almost like Sevilla & Villareal. My point was about the decision he made in the first place & as @Classical Mechanic said Dortmund have done about what you’d expect of them.

Returning to your wall of irrelevant nonsense. Teammates who can’t pass a ball straight, a squad in need of an overhaul, a manager who’ll be leaving soon; sounds familiar.

He chose Dortmund over United, if you believe the management played no role in the decision fine we can disagree but your constant changing of goalposts is tedious, it’s not about being right or wrong as neither of us have spoke to Bellingham personally. If opinions piss you off so badly perhaps forums aren’t for you lad.
 
Was caught on camera last night shouting to Nico Schulz " you can't get one fecking pass off!"

He would be putting a lot of pound coins in the swear jar if he were to join us :lol:
 
feck it get Rice, Bellingham & Haaland. Full muppet.

Red Shorts said:
Was caught on camera last night shouting to Nico Schulz " you can't get one fecking pass off!"

He would be putting a lot of pound coins in the swear jar if he were to join us :lol:
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That’s the sort of player we need tbf.
 
AFC NimbleThumb said:
You can soften the blow on your ego as much as you like. The fact remains a United supporting, English born player chose a German club over ours in a head-to-head because he believed it would better his career. If we were ruling Europe & Country with a midfield other than McFred then fine but we could have done with a player of his type over the past few years. He backed himself & hasn’t looked back.

In taking ‘the Sancho’ route he chose another team over our own, I don’t care for your psychoanalysis why from a distance.
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You just like to cry don't you, many players have choosen other clubs over us at different points going back to Ronaldinho choosing Barca over us or Shearer as another example .
We regularly beat other clubs to signings even now as well, but we wouldn't get them all.....most likely Bellingham will return back to the EPL at some point and as good as he is I wouldn't be crying if we didn't even land him because there will be others.
 
Bwuk said:
feck it get Rice, Bellingham & Haaland. Full muppet.



That’s the sort of player we need tbf.
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Have to say, the future for ENgland looks great in central midfield with Rice and Bellingham, still a tinge fo what f for me personally with us not playing a couple of players during the Euros over others. Peope look back at Phillips and Sterling as two of our stellar players in the tournament, I cant help thinking we may have actually got over the line in that final if Belligham and one or two more played instead of who we starte with.

I think both are just two costly though for what we need to do this summer as a group of signings
 
He “seems a Liverpool player” but yeah, their MO in recent years is far more the £30-50m mark. Fair whack but definitely not premium. Dortmund will be looking for a lot more than that if he leaves any time soon.
 
The dream for me is Rice and Bellingham coming in as that’s a perfectly balanced midfield.
 
We do realise that players exist that aren't English and not valued at £80m+ right?
 
marktan said:
We do realise that players exist that aren't English and not valued at £80m+ right?
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Once in a while, players come along who represent fair value even at the elevated rate - Bellingham is one such player, who wouldn’t get abuse for costing that much because it’s the going rate for what he offers, plus his age and potential in both longevity and skills improving.

Doubt you’ll find all he is rolled into one player costing less, English or not.
 
When will United learn that English players are mostly useless. There are one or two who are really good. The rest, not that much.
 
Fortitude said:
Once in a while, players come along who represent fair value even at the elevated rate - Bellingham is one such player, who wouldn’t get abuse for costing that much because it’s the going rate for what he offers, plus his age and potential in both longevity and skills improving.

Doubt you’ll find all he is rolled into one player costing less, English or not.
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But City and Liverpool have built incredibly strong squads without spending £80m plus on numerous players. I don't understand why we can't do the same?
 
Fortitude said:
Once in a while, players come along who represent fair value even at the elevated rate - Bellingham is one such player, who wouldn’t get abuse for costing that much because it’s the going rate for what he offers, plus his age and potential in both longevity and skills improving.

Doubt you’ll find all he is rolled into one player costing less, English or not.
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This may be true, but in the short term at least. £80m doesnt seem viable to me without major sales. Othewise what are we doing maybe 2/3signings.....we did that last season and singed quality players too.

Of course we made the mistake of not signing for the positions most needed to be filled, especially with Ronaldo at the time when we had striker options and poor options in other areas.

If we needed just a couple of signings this summer I would be all n for Rice or/and Bellingham. We need 4/5 without doubt minimum in my mind though and the only way that happens with big signings like Bellingham is if we were to sell the likes of Maguire/Rashford/Shaw who hold value in the market but havent performed. Personally would be all up for the first two going....but lets be realistic, never happening this summer
 
AndySmith1990 said:
But City and Liverpool have built incredibly strong squads without spending £80m plus on numerous players. I don't understand why we can't do the same?
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Liverpool’s midfield is set up to be a workhorse with a dab of finesse, predicated on ridiculous flank support that would cost a fortune to replicate - the value in their team is shuffled about with the midfield facilitating it. Their core is also expensive (Keeper, cb’s), so their financial distribution is perfectly moulded to what Klopp wanted/needed.

Pep always buys a gazillion midfielders and takes it from there.

We need gutting and a rebuild, with no set plan or system in place and no sage manager formulating a blueprint. Until we have those things, we need eclectic players with as broad and flexible a skilset as we can find. It doesn’t have to be Bellingham, but players who have that range in what they can do.

Get ourselves a top quality manager and coaching staff, and we can streamline.
 
jesperjaap said:
This may be true, but in the short term at least. £80m doesnt seem viable to me without major sales. Othewise what are we doing maybe 2/3signings.....we did that last season and singed quality players too.

Of course we made the mistake of not signing for the positions most needed to be filled, especially with Ronaldo at the time when we had striker options and poor options in other areas.

If we needed just a couple of signings this summer I would be all n for Rice or/and Bellingham. We need 4/5 without doubt minimum in my mind though and the only way that happens with big signings like Bellingham is if we were to sell the likes of Maguire/Rashford/Shaw who hold value in the market but havent performed. Personally would be all up for the first two going....but lets be realistic, never happening this summer
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We’ve made a rod for our own back with our dire, threadbare midfield - we need both quality and numbers and at least 3 players coming in just for midfield. A DM, a proper CM and hopefully someone who can control a game and calm us down whilst being press resistant… it’s probably not happening in a single window, but it’s how much we’re lacking in that area to truly compete.

If we can find some gems who are cheap and come in and deliver, fair enough, but reality suggests, we’ll have to pick and choose as the profile of player (Tchouamemi, Bellingham, Rice and so forth) all rock up to the same or similar value, plus the premium if we don’t qualify for the CL. As I say, a rod for our own back that pushes the prices up as anyone we deal with will know we’re desperate.

I think we need to purge the starters and get them to squaddie status, then slowly but surely palm them out the club over following windows; the question becomes: who do you take those financial risks on for the first team whilst doing so? What type of midfielder(s) stabilises us the most in the meantime whilst taking on such a mammoth task?

We’re in a really bad way and will have to strategise to get out of it.
 
Fortitude said:
Once in a while, players come along who represent fair value even at the elevated rate - Bellingham is one such player, who wouldn’t get abuse for costing that much because it’s the going rate for what he offers, plus his age and potential in both longevity and skills improving.

Doubt you’ll find all he is rolled into one player costing less, English or not.
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It's just lazy scouting to me - Maguire, Wan Bissaka, Sancho, and now Bellingham. All are good players but way overpriced based on their actual ability, spent because we have money and a poor recruitment department.

Bellingham, like Sancho, is a good player but he's not currently a great player. If you're spending £80m, you should be signing a Kroos, Modric or Casemiro quality player that's already established. If not then for good players that can make the jump you need to look around and find £40m players - Fabinho's, Mane, Salah etc. We can't build a good squad when we consistently overpay for good but not great players. For Maguire, Sancho and potentially Bellingham for £230m - you could instead sign 6 £40m players that have the potential to be great and significantly improve the squad. Just off the top of my head I could give you Andersen, Saint Maximin and Bissouma - 3 players that aren't a downgrade, and you can sign 3 as good players on top.

On Belingham personally I'd wait 2-3 years and see where his level ends up before thinking of spending big money on him. If he was available for £40m then sure, but since he's not then there's hardly going to be a queue of people dying to sign him in the mean time.
 
marktan said:
It's just lazy scouting to me - Maguire, Wan Bissaka, Sancho, and now Bellingham. All are good players but way overpriced based on their actual ability, spent because we have money and a poor recruitment department.

Bellingham, like Sancho, is a good player but he's not currently a great player. If you're spending £80m, you should be signing a Kroos, Modric or Casemiro quality player that's already established. If not then for good players that can make the jump you need to look around and find £40m players - Fabinho's, Mane, Salah etc. We can't build a good squad when we consistently overpay for good but not great players. For Maguire, Sancho and potentially Bellingham for £230m - you could instead sign 6 £40m players that have the potential to be great and significantly improve the squad. Just off the top of my head I could give you Andersen, Saint Maximin and Bissouma - 3 players that aren't a downgrade, and you can sign 3 as good players on top.

On Belingham personally I'd wait 2-3 years and see where his level ends up before thinking of spending big money on him. If he was available for £40m then sure, but since he's not then there's hardly going to be a queue of people dying to sign him in the mean time.
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You’re lumping Maguire and Wan Bissaka in with players they have no business being associated with on any level at any point in time. Sancho was ‘worth’ every penny paid on the merit of what he had done up to that point in time; no such charge lays in any proximity to the other two. Bellingham has been highly rated from his academy days right through to now with his value only increasing as he shows his wares - we, depending on your perspective, messed up by not snagging him from Birmingham for a lesser fee than he’ll ever cost subsequently, but his going rate, whatever it ends up being, has been established and set over years, not any flash in the pan period of time.

You’re not getting peak Kroos or Modric for £80m - that’d be like offering similar to Bayern for Kimmich and seeing if the laughter carries over seas. What you can try to snag is the up-and-coming versions of these players before they make their move to a giant for the touted prices you’re seeing for all the aforementioned players in my last post who are not at elite clubs yet, but will all cost similar when they’re eventually moved on. Quality in the market has declined a lot and clubs are holding onto assets and preferring to have them run down contracts rather than cash-in until the player intimates he wants out, as such, the market has changed a lot and we’re not seeing many big moves - superstar sales - just top players generally moving on at the end of their contracts when the clubs have no more leverage.

re. 2-3years time on Bellingham, the problem with such a scenario is that if he matures into a real world-class player, £80m won’t get him and the competition for his signature would be absurd. That’s a gamble you take when you are at the top or have money to burn as you’ll fancy your chances in an open market against anyone… it’s not an avenue for a club in disarray who need massive upgrades right now, to be in the position in 2-3 year times to contest outright for the best players in the world.

Bellingham isn’t a £80m in terms of what he is right now, nor is Rice, but the reasons why they fall into that category are pretty clear, especially so with an 18-year old who looks like there’s years of development left in him. Tchouameni, it could be argued is performing at a level where you’re going to have to put that kind of money down or knock yourself out of the race to sign him. I’m all for equivalent talents that can be had for cheaper, but is that realistic? No, I don’t think so - clubs aren’t stupid and know an asset when they have it and most will hold onto and let that player develop than get ripped off in selling him on prematurely as we’re generally talking about star turns who we’re always touted for bigger things.
 
Fortitude said:
You’re lumping Maguire and Wan Bissaka in with players they have no business being associated with on any level at any point in time. Sancho was ‘worth’ every penny paid on the merit of what he had done up to that point in time; no such charge lays in any proximity to the other two. Bellingham has been highly rated from his academy days right through to now with his value only increasing as he shows his wares - we, depending on your perspective, messed up by not snagging him from Birmingham for a lesser fee than he’ll ever cost subsequently, but his going rate, whatever it ends up being, has been established and set over years, not any flash in the pan period of time.

You’re not getting peak Kroos or Modric for £80m - that’d be like offering similar to Bayern for Kimmich and seeing if the laughter carries over seas. What you can try to snag is the up-and-coming versions of these players before they make their move to a giant for the touted prices you’re seeing for all the aforementioned players in my last post who are not at elite clubs yet, but will all cost similar when they’re eventually moved on. Quality in the market has declined a lot and clubs are holding onto assets and preferring to have them run down contracts rather than cash-in until the player intimates he wants out, as such, the market has changed a lot and we’re not seeing many big moves - superstar sales - just top players generally moving on at the end of their contracts when the clubs have no more leverage.

re. 2-3years time on Bellingham, the problem with such a scenario is that if he matures into a real world-class player, £80m won’t get him and the competition for his signature would be absurd. That’s a gamble you take when you are at the top or have money to burn as you’ll fancy your chances in an open market against anyone… it’s not an avenue for a club in disarray who need massive upgrades right now, to be in the position in 2-3 year times to contest outright for the best players in the world.

Bellingham isn’t a £80m in terms of what he is right now, nor is Rice, but the reasons why they fall into that category are pretty clear, especially so with an 18-year old who looks like there’s years of development left in him. Tchouameni, it could be argued is performing at a level where you’re going to have to put that kind of money down or knock yourself out of the race to sign him. I’m all for equivalent talents that can be had for cheaper, but is that realistic? No, I don’t think so - clubs aren’t stupid and know an asset when they have it and most will hold onto and let that player develop than get ripped off in selling him on prematurely as we’re generally talking about star turns who we’re always touted for bigger things.
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Nah I'm sorry your valuations are way out of sort. If Bellingham gets better Dortmund are going to suddenly demand £110m for him. No one's going to pay that.

Just like nobody else was interested in Sancho at £100m or £70m.

It's that sort of flawed thinking that sees us waste out transfer budget year after year.

Look at Luiz Diaz - £40m and he looks better than Sancho already in terms of his skill and running with the ball.

On Bellingham, on no planet is he worth what Dortmund will demand for him. We need a DM first, then probably a RW and a striker, and then probably a passing CM. Bellingham fits neither of those roles. He's more of an energetic runner with skill in the box, but with the caveat like Sancho that he plays in a very attacking team. A good luxury to have but with Bruno in our team he doesn't fit for us at all.
 
marktan said:
Nah I'm sorry your valuations are way out of sort. If Bellingham gets better Dortmund are going to suddenly demand £110m for him. No one's going to pay that.

Just like nobody else was interested in Sancho at £100m or £70m.

It's that sort of flawed thinking that sees us waste out transfer budget year after year.

Look at Luiz Diaz - £40m and he looks better than Sancho already in terms of his skill and running with the ball.

On Bellingham, on no planet is he worth what Dortmund will demand for him. We need a DM first, then probably a RW and a striker, and then probably a passing CM. Bellingham fits neither of those roles. He's more of an energetic runner with skill in the box, but with the caveat like Sancho that he plays in a very attacking team. A good luxury to have but with Bruno in our team he doesn't fit for us at all.
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I haven’t made up an arbitrary increase in his value - you’ve stated £110m and then argued against it. As ever, a combination of performance in Europe as well as internationally plus an upward trend at domestic level will be determinant in his peak valuation at Dortmund. The market is what it is and Rice is not going anywhere for the price he’s worth, and nor will Tchouameni because they are assessed across a plethora of considerations, not least what a prized asset is worth to a selling club.

Sancho’s situation was always an outlier, which gave one club a clear run at him. I think I’ll move away from this Sancho discussion because I wholly disagree with your POV and assessment of him - we’re not going to agree there, not that we have to.

Our needs are of no matter to any club we go after players from, well, not beyond how desperate they assess us to be to set their stall out from - the discussion is about the quality of players; where they’re at to cost what they do, and the feasibility of landing the same kind of quality for less, which, on the last point, I’m all for wherever possible. The difficulty is the market is sparse and there aren’t many impressive players who are gettable, at all, let alone for knock down fees - if you look at the transfer forum, the names touted aren’t a patch on the likes of a Vidal et al in his prime years - it’s a tier or two down because those kind of players don’t move anymore as opposed to running their contracts down and then getting the best financial packages possible with their clubs having little say.
 
I think he's fantastic, & would be perfect for us a Xhaxa replacement. Xhaka's role has transitioned somewhat recently and it's more like a 433 with Partey as the pivot & Odegaard higher up on the right & Xhaka higher up on the left.

Ideally you want someone more mobile and a bit more dynamic in that position, & I believe someone like Bellingham would be the ideal signing.

Someone like Tielemans could doa job there as well but I think Bellingham will be next level, and will also give a bit more security coming back the way.

Unfortunately, better & richer teams will be ahead of us in the queue.
 
Can see Newcastle in for him and probably blow us out of the water so you might as well forget him
 
wolvored said:
Can see Newcastle in for him and probably blow us out of the water so you might as well forget him
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Bellinghams next move will be a traditional big, but crucially historically successful club. He’s not gonna turn down United & then join Newcastle. He’s not motivated by money clearly.

Liverpool fans booing the national anthem yesterday might just put him off then though. He’s a proud Englishman too.
 
marktan said:
We need a DM first, then probably a RW and a striker, and then probably a passing CM. Bellingham fits neither of those roles. He's more of an energetic runner with skill in the box, but with the caveat like Sancho that he plays in a very attacking team. A good luxury to have but with Bruno in our team he doesn't fit for us at all.
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Bellingham is a big big upgrade on McFred, actually. Exactly what we need box to box wise He excels in ball winning but with actual technical ability to use the ball efficiently and creatively.
 
carlbcfc said:
Bellinghams next move will be a traditional big, but crucially historically successful club. He’s not gonna turn down United & then join Newcastle. He’s not motivated by money clearly.

Liverpool fans booing the national anthem yesterday might just put him off then though. He’s a proud Englishman too.
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How do you know all of these things are true?
 
carlbcfc said:
He’s not motivated by money clearly.
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Apparently he went for the highest offer the last time, so how you can be sure about that? (Yes, Dortmund offered first team wages while United just saw him as a talent).
 
carlbcfc said:
Bellinghams next move will be a traditional big, but crucially historically successful club. He’s not gonna turn down United & then join Newcastle. He’s not motivated by money clearly.

Liverpool fans booing the national anthem yesterday might just put him off then though. He’s a proud Englishman too.
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By the level of detail in your post you must be his agent...any chance you could put in a good word for us?
 
carlbcfc said:
Bellinghams next move will be a traditional big, but crucially historically successful club. He’s not gonna turn down United & then join Newcastle. He’s not motivated by money clearly.

Liverpool fans booing the national anthem yesterday might just put him off then though. He’s a proud Englishman too.
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So he will definitely join a declining club against a money no object club who will probably have a fantastic team by 2023? I admire your optimism.
Also didn't he join Dortmund who offered more money as well?
No way will he join Utd
 
wolvored said:
So he will definitely join a declining club against a money no object club who will probably have a fantastic team by 2023? I admire your optimism.
Also didn't he join Dortmund who offered more money as well?
No way will he join Utd
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I don’t know what planet you are on. But there is a demographic of what type of player Newcastle can get at the minute abs it’s not Jude Bellingham mate.
 
We should not be signing Jude Bellingham. Find another target and move on.
 
Who's Kissing Cameras? said:
Bellingham is a big big upgrade on McFred, actually. Exactly what we need box to box wise He excels in ball winning but with actual technical ability to use the ball efficiently and creatively.
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Personally I don't think he'd be any better than Fred. Fred is a good player with a lot of dynamic qualities, just plays in a crap midfield with no protection. Stick Bellingham here and he'll struggle just as much. Won't be a popular opinion on the Caf but this place is notorious for hating on our own players and wanting shiny new things.
 
Bellingham isn't leaving this summer

Dortmund aren't letting Haaland & Bellingham leave in the same summer

I think he is the perfect CM box to box midfielder

Yes he is gonna be expensive but he would be your starter for the next 10 years and that only would take him to 29
 
marktan said:
Personally I don't think he'd be any better than Fred. Fred is a good player with a lot of dynamic qualities, just plays in a crap midfield with no protection. Stick Bellingham here and he'll struggle just as much. Won't be a popular opinion on the Caf but this place is notorious for hating on our own players and wanting shiny new things.
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Maybe (I don’t agree I think Jude is better already) but Bellingham is 18 and Fred is 28. So he has 10 years till his prime whereas Fred will not get any better.
 
I think he’s vastly overpriced for what his potential level is, and there’s far better value to be had out there. This is another sancho debate when there are equivalent or better talents like Luis Diaz or Nkunku to be had for half the price. It’s also why there’s not a chance in hell we’ll be looking to sign him anytime soon.

The price would have to be south of £50m for him to provide any kind of value, and at present dortmund will be asking for £80m+ with little room for negotiation on that. He just simply isn’t worth anywhere near that sum.
 
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