Jude Bellingham | Real Madrid player

Every time I've seen him play he's been underwhelming to say the least.

If he played for United he'd have been hauled over the coals already and would be a jibbering mess at home reading all the hate.
 
Big Andy said:
Every time I've seen him play he's been underwhelming to say the least.

If he played for United he'd have been hauled over the coals already and would be a jibbering mess at home reading all the hate.
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I came here to say this. I've not seen him much tbf and I'm sure he's a wonderful player but every time I have watched him, he's been fine but a bit of a moments player.
 
He´s out of gas(and a shoulder injury), Ancelotti always runs down to the ground the starting 11 players...
 
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Definitely a bad game tonight. Disappointing. If he continues in a similar vein of form, there's a bit of a problem of where to put him at the Euros, as he definitely wouldn't warrant having a team being built around him to optimise his game.
 
Big Andy said:
Every time I've seen him play he's been underwhelming to say the least.

If he played for United he'd have been hauled over the coals already and would be a jibbering mess at home reading all the hate.
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Sickens me to defend a Madrid player, but he's not in great form at the moment and hasn't been for a while (after a very hot start and middle of the season). But he is 20, tough to be totally consistent at that age.

People got a bit carried away with the hype, but I'd hate to see the pendulum swing the other way and for him to be declared 'trash' because of a sticky patch (not saying that you are doing this, I'm just speaking generally). He's a fantastic talent.
 
Kwabs said:
Sickens me to defend a Madrid player, but he's not in great form at the moment and hasn't been for a while (after a very hot start and middle of the season). But he is 20, tough to be totally consistent at that age.

People got a bit carried away with the hype, but I'd hate to see the pendulum swing the other way and for him to be declared 'trash' because of a sticky patch (not saying that you are doing this, I'm just speaking generally). He's a fantastic talent.
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Yeah pretty much a “typical” football phenomena. Guy goes on a hot streak, he’s the second coming. He blows cold and all of a sudden he’s not that great to begin with. Truth is somewhere in the middle there.

Anyway, I was thinking about it earlier and Ronaldo and Messi really ruined it (Balon d’Or) for all of us. We won’t see those type of players and numbers for a while. I wonder who’s the front runner for the award at this point…

Mbappe (if PSG can get to/win the final), Vini (if madrid wins the final), Kane (if they win it) & Jude are the 4 I can think of. Maybe the Euros will have a big say in the final ranking.
 
Ish said:
Yeah pretty much a “typical” football phenomena. Guy goes on a hot streak, he’s the second coming. He blows cold and all of a sudden he’s not that great to begin with. Truth is somewhere in the middle there.

Anyway, I was thinking about it earlier and Ronaldo and Messi really ruined it (Balon d’Or) for all of us. We won’t see those type of players and numbers for a while. I wonder who’s the front runner for the award at this point…

Mbappe (if PSG can get to/win the final), Vini (if madrid wins the final), Kane (if they win it) & Jude are the 4 I can think of. Maybe the Euros will have a big say in the final ranking.
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Exactly! I am familiar mainly with the English media so not sure how it is in other big European nations but the speed at which some players are declared greats is just ridiculous. Saka, Rice and Bellingham are great players and have a very high potential, but the fact is, they have never done it at the highest level of the game which is these decisive CL ties. They showed great form in league campaigns which is not nothing, but to be spoken about the way these guys are, you have to stand out in April and May when the biggest games are played and be the difference maker. There is no reason why Bellingham can't do that, but until he does and does it consistently, he can't be considered among the elite.
 
People were going overboard with the hype. There were a few posters in here saying he'd surpass Zidane in a season or 2.
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
People were going overboard with the hype. There were a few posters in here saying he'd surpass Zidane in a season or 2.
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This is what I find most laughable. He may be better than 20 year old Zidane but that is a very different statement to what is being said.
I think the only thing he has on prime zidane is athleticism.
Jude for me, is an elite athlete with good/very good skills in other areas of his game. Mind you, this should not be sniffed at, as it's better than most good players will ever be. He doesn't have a glaring weakness.

He'll hopefully continue to improve but I doubt he'll ever be an elite technical player.

This is why I think the conversation about his best position will keep reoccurring. Especially once Madrid gets a forward line up they can count on for goal output.
 
FrankWhite said:
This is what I find most laughable. He may be better than 20 year old Zidane but that is a very different statement to what is being said.
I think the only thing he has on prime zidane is athleticism.
Jude for me, is an elite athlete with good/very good skills in other areas of his game. Mind you, this should not be sniffed at, as it's better than most good players will ever be. He doesn't have a glaring weakness.

He'll hopefully continue to improve but I doubt he'll ever be an elite technical player.

This is why I think the conversation about his best position will keep reoccurring. Especially once Madrid gets a forward line up they can count on for goal output.
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I really think his best position will end up being that Wijnaldum/Macallister type advanced 8 role where he's getting forward/running beyond but still more of a midfielder in a 3 as opposed to essentially playing as a deep lying forward like he is now.
 
Fortitude said:
Definitely a bad game tonight. Disappointing. If he continues in a similar vein of form, there's a bit of a problem of where to put him at the Euros, as he definitely wouldn't warrant having a team being built around him to optimise his game.
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England has a weird conundrum with all of those positions apart from Rice. I've personally never thought Kane was close to the player he is at the club level for England and wouldn't hesitate to experiment without him, but we all know he's nailed on the start. But with Kane you ideally need runners beyond him because he's going to drop deep, except Rashford is the only one that fits the bill and he might not even deserve to be on the plane at this point. Saka and Foden generally prefer the ball to feet, and Bellingham is at his best high up the pitch as well. Gordon would work but I'd be shocked if Southgate picks him. And With Southgate preferring defensive fullbacks as well you could easily see some sluggish performances with how it all fits together.
 
Has he really been out of form though? Or has his positioning changed based on Ancelotti's requirements of him?

In the two Man City games he was used as the primary defensive midfielder, with Kroos being the main outlet for long passes for Vini/Rodrygo. Even Valverde was shunted to a defensive winger position whose main duty was to track back. This was especially apparent in the second leg, after Tchouameni was suspended so they had to play Nacho and Bellingham and Camavinga ran their absolute guts off protecting their back line.

Look at the heat maps of Bellingham in La Liga: even the recent ones against Barca when he was way up the pitch.

https://www.sofascore.com/player/jude-bellingham/991011

Then look at the heat maps of him playing vs Man City and Bayern.

The majority of his position in both city games were in his own half, and in the Bayern game it was the center circle, the right defensive side of his half and the offensive left side of Bayern.

Compare that to his La Liga games where he barely touches the ball in his own defensive third.

This is happening because he is a #8/10 who just so happens to have a gigantic engine, great physical abilities, positioning and tackling that Ancelotti decides to use him as a defensive midfielder in the big games when he has key defenders missing. Of course his offensive game is going to suffer as a result.

What do you think will happen if Musiala, Foden or Odegaard is asked to play that role? I can guarantee that they would be just as ineffective offensively but far far worse defensively too.

People are basically complaining that a guy who has been playing as a shadow striker/false 9 for the majority of the season is no longer as effective at the top end of the pitch when he is being played as a #5.

The expectations people are putting on him is absolutely ridiculous.
 
AfonsoAlves said:
Has he really been out of form though? Or has his positioning changed based on Ancelotti's requirements of him?

In the two Man City games he was used as the primary defensive midfielder, with Kroos being the main outlet for long passes for Vini/Rodrygo. Even Valverde was shunted to a defensive winger position whose main duty was to track back. This was especially apparent in the second leg, after Tchouameni was suspended so they had to play Nacho and Bellingham and Camavinga ran their absolute guts off protecting their back line.

Look at the heat maps of Bellingham in La Liga: even the recent ones against Barca when he was way up the pitch.

https://www.sofascore.com/player/jude-bellingham/991011

Then look at the heat maps of him playing vs Man City and Bayern.

The majority of his position in both city games were in his own half, and in the Bayern game it was the center circle, the right defensive side of his half and the offensive left side of Bayern.

Compare that to his La Liga games where he barely touches the ball in his own defensive third.

This is happening because he is a #8/10 who just so happens to have a gigantic engine, great physical abilities, positioning and tackling that Ancelotti decides to use him as a defensive midfielder in the big games when he has key defenders missing. Of course his offensive game is going to suffer as a result.

What do you think will happen if Musiala, Foden or Odegaard is asked to play that role? I can guarantee that they would be just as ineffective offensively but far far worse defensively too.

People are basically complaining that a guy who has been playing as a shadow striker/false 9 for the majority of the season is no longer as effective at the top end of the pitch when he is being played as a #5.

The expectations people are putting on him is absolutely ridiculous.
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Was he good as a DM then - if he indeed played as that? As Bayern scored a few. Also what were Kroos and Tchouameni’s roles if Bellingham was a DM?

It feels like people want it both ways - to put players on absurd pedestals due to their excessive exuberance but also them grant them immunity from criticism.
 
With the praise he gets from the English press I expect alot more. I expected him to produce the kind of passes that Kroos and Modric produced in this game for Vinicius but none came. I expected some ball keeping, some control of the game and some good runs but none came. Same is true for the classico and the 2 City games. He scored a goal vs Barca and the praise he got was through the roof; truthfully, he did little else.
From the much I've seen, he looks overrated.

Musiala doesn't get a quarter of his hype yet looks brilliant every time I've seen him; a real talent.
 
He's a bit gassed at the moment, that's all. He'll rest this week and score at the Bernabeu in the second leg, no worries
 
Some crazy knee jeek reactions in here. Jude is an absolutely brilliant player

It's a well established fact that England's best players are simply incapable of going into a summer tournament fully fit and in form. I expect a muscle injury in the next couple of weeks before rushing back and playing at 50% capacity at the euros. He'll be back to his best for Real in time for the start of next season
 
Big Andy said:
Every time I've seen him play he's been underwhelming to say the least.

If he played for United he'd have been hauled over the coals already and would be a jibbering mess at home reading all the hate.
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Can he handle being at a giant club and big city? It is one thing to get a start like he did. Everything just went his way for couple of months. It is another to perform every week. Or atleast every other week. Signs are not good and Real Madrid will not watch someone playing like this for to long. He might find himself warming bench soon.
 
Hey Jude, don't make it bad.
Take a bad team and make it better.
Remember to let it into your heart,
Then you can start to make it better.
 
90 + 5min said:
Can he handle being at a giant club and big city? It is one thing to get a start like he did. Everything just went his way for couple of months. It is another to perform every week. Or atleast every other week. Signs are not good and Real Madrid will not watch someone playing like this for to long. He might find himself warming bench soon.
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I'm not sure if that first question is serious?
 
90 + 5min said:
Can he handle being at a giant club and big city? It is one thing to get a start like he did. Everything just went his way for couple of months. It is another to perform every week. Or atleast every other week. Signs are not good and Real Madrid will not watch someone playing like this for to long. He might find himself warming bench soon.
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He looks like he is born to play for Madrid.
 
AfonsoAlves said:
Has he really been out of form though? Or has his positioning changed based on Ancelotti's requirements of him?

In the two Man City games he was used as the primary defensive midfielder, with Kroos being the main outlet for long passes for Vini/Rodrygo. Even Valverde was shunted to a defensive winger position whose main duty was to track back. This was especially apparent in the second leg, after Tchouameni was suspended so they had to play Nacho and Bellingham and Camavinga ran their absolute guts off protecting their back line.

Look at the heat maps of Bellingham in La Liga: even the recent ones against Barca when he was way up the pitch.

https://www.sofascore.com/player/jude-bellingham/991011

Then look at the heat maps of him playing vs Man City and Bayern.

The majority of his position in both city games were in his own half, and in the Bayern game it was the center circle, the right defensive side of his half and the offensive left side of Bayern.

Compare that to his La Liga games where he barely touches the ball in his own defensive third.

This is happening because he is a #8/10 who just so happens to have a gigantic engine, great physical abilities, positioning and tackling that Ancelotti decides to use him as a defensive midfielder in the big games when he has key defenders missing. Of course his offensive game is going to suffer as a result.

What do you think will happen if Musiala, Foden or Odegaard is asked to play that role? I can guarantee that they would be just as ineffective offensively but far far worse defensively too.

People are basically complaining that a guy who has been playing as a shadow striker/false 9 for the majority of the season is no longer as effective at the top end of the pitch when he is being played as a #5.

The expectations people are putting on him is absolutely ridiculous.
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The narrative is he’s “got the lot” so should be doable for him, clearly he’s more Dele than Gerrard, he’s brilliant though and yeah he works his bollocks off. Think he might flop at the Euros though
 
He’s 20 years old and even the very best players weren’t decisive all the time, if he scores the winner in the next leg then people forget the other games in 5 years time.

I was too young to watch but if I remember the narrative was that Zidane was destroyed for ‘ghosting’ two Champions Leagues finals for Juve in 1997 and 1998 and wasn’t seen as a big-game player until the 1998 World Cup final when he was 26.
 
africanspur said:
I'm not sure if that first question is serious?
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Why? Lots of talented players have left clubs or cities to find themself in environment where things a lot bigger and you are in more light. You can't hide like you can in lesser big clubs. Some players can't handle it mentally after a while. We will see about Bellingham. He started well. For some months now I'm seeing different player than the one in first months. Real Madrid is a whole different beast compared to Dortmund. This is not disrespecting Dortmund.

roonster09 said:
He looks like he is born to play for Madrid.
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I'm not that sure. We will see.
 
90 + 5min said:
Why? Lots of talented players have left clubs or cities to find themself in environment where things a lot bigger and you are in more light. You can't hide like you can in lesser big clubs. Some players can't handle it mentally after a while. We will see about Bellingham. He started well. For some months now I'm seeing different player than the one in first months. Real Madrid is a whole different beast compared to Dortmund. This is not disrespecting Dortmund.


I'm not that sure. We will see.
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Because that question might have made sense when he was still at dortmund (though they're still a huge club) but much less so when he's already moved to the biggest club in the world and 6th largest city in Europe, and played a vital role in an almost guaranteed league title and current advantage in a CL SF.
 
Drainy said:
Online fans really don't like players having quiet games do they
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Were you at the game then?

I don't think many are saying he's not extremely talented, I think that most probably haven't seen an enormous amount of him outside of the CL and for England (definitely me included) and haven't seen him shine at a level that justifies some of the superlatives being tossed around. I don't think it's got anything to do with being 'online fans' (and am not even sure I understand what that actually means).
 
AfonsoAlves said:
Has he really been out of form though? Or has his positioning changed based on Ancelotti's requirements of him?

In the two Man City games he was used as the primary defensive midfielder, with Kroos being the main outlet for long passes for Vini/Rodrygo. Even Valverde was shunted to a defensive winger position whose main duty was to track back. This was especially apparent in the second leg, after Tchouameni was suspended so they had to play Nacho and Bellingham and Camavinga ran their absolute guts off protecting their back line.

Look at the heat maps of Bellingham in La Liga: even the recent ones against Barca when he was way up the pitch.

https://www.sofascore.com/player/jude-bellingham/991011

Then look at the heat maps of him playing vs Man City and Bayern.

The majority of his position in both city games were in his own half, and in the Bayern game it was the center circle, the right defensive side of his half and the offensive left side of Bayern.

Compare that to his La Liga games where he barely touches the ball in his own defensive third.

This is happening because he is a #8/10 who just so happens to have a gigantic engine, great physical abilities, positioning and tackling that Ancelotti decides to use him as a defensive midfielder in the big games when he has key defenders missing. Of course his offensive game is going to suffer as a result.

What do you think will happen if Musiala, Foden or Odegaard is asked to play that role? I can guarantee that they would be just as ineffective offensively but far far worse defensively too.

People are basically complaining that a guy who has been playing as a shadow striker/false 9 for the majority of the season is no longer as effective at the top end of the pitch when he is being played as a #5.

The expectations people are putting on him is absolutely ridiculous.
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I said this regarding the City games. Don’t know if it was as apparent yesterday. Will watch again. Can admit I was expecting an offensive midfield performance and observed through that lens; to observe again through an #8 or even further back #, perhaps the assessment changes.
 
Valencia Shin Crosses said:
England has a weird conundrum with all of those positions apart from Rice. I've personally never thought Kane was close to the player he is at the club level for England and wouldn't hesitate to experiment without him, but we all know he's nailed on the start. But with Kane you ideally need runners beyond him because he's going to drop deep, except Rashford is the only one that fits the bill and he might not even deserve to be on the plane at this point. Saka and Foden generally prefer the ball to feet, and Bellingham is at his best high up the pitch as well. Gordon would work but I'd be shocked if Southgate picks him. And With Southgate preferring defensive fullbacks as well you could easily see some sluggish performances with how it all fits together.
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Wish there was an actual skilled coach there to try and optimise it.
 
Pickle85 said:
Were you at the game then?

I don't think many are saying he's not extremely talented, I think that most probably haven't seen an enormous amount of him outside of the CL and for England (definitely me included) and haven't seen him shine at a level that justifies some of the superlatives being tossed around. I don't think it's got anything to do with being 'online fans' (and am not even sure I understand what that actually means).
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He was outstanding in two Clasicos against Barca for example, Sid Lowe who has been watching Bellingham all year said he had a "season that could hardly have gone better".

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...debut-la-liga-season-clasico-winner-barcelona

" it is genuinely hard to think of many men who have had a debut season at Madrid quite like this, a player who has dominated a campaign or had an impact like it. “Bellingham is the Player of the League,” AS wrote on Monday morning and, even with the recent mini-dip, it is not easy to argue."

I haven't seen many of his games but I trust Sid Lowe and AS better than my assessment of watching a few CL games. Sometimes it's best to just listen to the experts rather than judging yourself off 4-5 games.
 
Drainy said:
Online fans really don't like players having quiet games do they
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Some of the comments I have been reading here are absolutely nuts.
The strikerless football Real Madrid demands a lot more from Jude tbh on top of his usual duties in midfield. With a proper stable front 3 ahead of him, that's when we'll see be a lot more consistent
 
I think Bellingham is a quality player, but the Zidane comparisons were always weird. Very different players.

Musiala plays more like Zidane than Bellingham does. He was outdstanding last night. The quick feet and driving runs. Won the penalty.
 
Fallon d'Floor said:
I think Bellingham is a quality player, but the Zidane comparisons were always weird. Very different players.

Musiala plays more like Zidane than Bellingham does. He was outdstanding last night. The quick feet and driving runs. Won the penalty.
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I don't think Musiala is any more like Zidane than Bellingham is. Bellingham and Zidane are both far more physically imposing, Musiala's nickname has been "Bambi" for the way he slithers through defences in his slight frame. Nobody would have ever called Zidane "Bambi", he was tall for a no 10 and excellent at shielding the ball and using his physical presence to go with his skill. Bellingham too has other qualities than Zidane has but quite natural for an attacking midfielder who is a similar build with the skill to go with it at the same club would be compared.
 
KeanoMagicHat said:
I don't think Musiala is any more like Zidane than Bellingham is. Bellingham and Zidane are both far more physically imposing, Musiala's nickname has been "Bambi" for the way he slithers through defences in his slight frame. Nobody would have ever called Zidane "Bambi", he was tall for a no 10 and excellent at shielding the ball and using his physical presence to go with his skill. Bellingham too has other qualities than Zidane has but quite natural for an attacking midfielder who is a similar build with the skill to go with it at the same club would be compared.
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Zidane was an elegant and skilful player. This is where Musiala is similar.

Musiala is still only 21 and will start to fill out fully now. He won 10 out of 14 ground duels and completed 5/6 dribbles. He's only an inch smaller than Zidane at 6ft tall.

Belligham just happens to be playing as No.10 this season. Apart from that, I don't see it. He's not as elegant or technical in tight spaces.
 
KeanoMagicHat said:
He was outstanding in two Clasicos against Barca for example, Sid Lowe who has been watching Bellingham all year said he had a "season that could hardly have gone better".

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...debut-la-liga-season-clasico-winner-barcelona

" it is genuinely hard to think of many men who have had a debut season at Madrid quite like this, a player who has dominated a campaign or had an impact like it. “Bellingham is the Player of the League,” AS wrote on Monday morning and, even with the recent mini-dip, it is not easy to argue."

I haven't seen many of his games but I trust Sid Lowe and AS better than my assessment of watching a few CL games. Sometimes it's best to just listen to the experts rather than judging yourself off 4-5 games.
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No arguments here. I've said throughout that I'm sure he's a massive talent but just that I've never seen him really shine to the level some have him at.
 
Fallon d'Floor said:
Zidane was an elegant and skilful player. This is where Musiala is similar.

Musiala is still only 21 and will start to fill out fully now. He won 10 out of 14 ground duels and completed 5/6 dribbles. He's only an inch smaller than Zidane at 6ft tall.

Belligham just happens to be playing as No.10 this season. Apart from that, I don't see it. He's not as elegant or technical in tight spaces.
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He did this against City that led to a goal only a few games ago:

 
Theonas said:
Exactly! I am familiar mainly with the English media so not sure how it is in other big European nations but the speed at which some players are declared greats is just ridiculous. Saka, Rice and Bellingham are great players and have a very high potential, but the fact is, they have never done it at the highest level of the game which is these decisive CL ties. They showed great form in league campaigns which is not nothing, but to be spoken about the way these guys are, you have to stand out in April and May when the biggest games are played and be the difference maker. There is no reason why Bellingham can't do that, but until he does and does it consistently, he can't be considered among the elite.
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Yeah, I’d agree with this. It is what it is. I also think whoever shines at the euros will be a front runner as there’s not so much been any one particular standout this season, outside of maybe the 4 I mentioned above.
 
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