Jude Bellingham | Confirmed Borussia Dortmund player

[RUCK4444]

People keep saying £30m is silly money but everyone that's seen this kid play is saying he's the real deal, and I trust their judgment. Would you have turned down Rooney at 16 for £30m too?

If we get one good season out of Bellingham, just one, he's repaid his transfer fee.

Nothing suggests he’s remotely as talented as Rooney.

Rooney was the most complete footballer whilst still being a teenager the country has ever seen.

At the same age of 16 Rooney was banging in wonder goals against Arsenal.
This lad has had a handful of games for Birmingham.

I agree he looks the real deal but it’s risky. Rooney was the safest possible bet.

 

[pratyush_utd]

People keep saying £30m is silly money but everyone that's seen this kid play is saying he's the real deal, and I trust their judgment. Would you have turned down Rooney at 16 for £30m too?

If we get one good season out of Bellingham, just one, he's repaid his transfer fee.

I am one of those who think he is the real deal but financial implications of such deal is huge for clubs like Dortmund.

He isn't a flashy player, so market valuefor him won't be that high, so if they invest huge amounts, returns won't be that high ( not as much as Sancho). Also Sancho was risk free purchase ( not sure how much they paid but I am sure it wasn't high, correct me if I wrong ). With Bellingham, there is a certain risk. Not all superstar kids become the player people predicted.

For United, taking a punt on talented player is fine as they can afford it. We paid 20m for James who is good but can't be considered elite level talent. Loss of 10-15m if he end up being dud, is not that significant for United but it is for Dortmund.

 

[crossy1686]

I am one of those who think he is the real deal but financial implications of such deal is huge for clubs like Dortmund.

He isn't a flashy player, so market valuefor him won't be that high, so if they investment huge amounts, returns won't be that high ( not as much as Sancho). Also Sancho was risk free purchase ( not sure how much they paid but I am sure it wasn't high, correct me if I wrong ). With Bellingham, there is a certain risk. Not all superstar kids become the player people predicted.

For United, taking a punt on talented player is fine as they can afford it. We paid 20m for James who is good but can't be considered elite level talent. Loss of 10-15m if does end up being dud, is not that significant for United but it is for Dortmund.

I agree with you on these points. I think Bellingham will take longer to establish himself as well, unless he's some kind of freak like Fabregas was. Dortmund will want to keep him for 3 seasons max before they see a return on their investment and at £30m I don't think they'd be willing to take the gamble he'd adapt and develop at a rate they're content to spend that money.

 

[Gordon S]

This lad has had a handful of games for Birmingham.

He has 32 games this season in the championship, how big are your hands?

 

[pascell]

He has 32 games this season in the championship, how big are your hands?

 

[GledTheRed]

This is such an emotional and dumb stance

I think it's stance we should take tbh, Ole did similar with Dybala last year. Bellingham shouldn't have a decision to make after we rolled SAF out. I'd walk away if he doesn't view us an number 1.

 

[flappyjay]

I think it's stance we should take tbh, Ole did similar with Dybala last year. Bellingham shouldn't have a decision to make after we rolled SAF out. I'd walk away if he doesn't view us an number 1.

Too different scenarios here. Dybala basically thought he was too good for us, this kid on the other hand looks at Dortmund as a place where he will get game time and develop. He would more open to us as a finished article who can fight for his spot. If joins is he is probably going to play most of his games in the u23 team with occasional pl and cup appearances.

 

[GledTheRed]

Too different scenarios here. Dybala basically thought he was too good for us, this kid on the other hand looks at Dortmund as a place where he will get game time and develop. He would more open to us as a finished article who can fight for his spot. If joins is he is probably going to play most of his games in the u23 team with occasional pl and cup appearances.

I think it's probably related to a higher wage with BVB thinking they can do a Sancho type deal. United develop youth better than BVB ever did, if the stories are true and he's chosen them i'd walk away

 

[crossy1686]

I think it's probably related to a higher wage with BVB thinking they can do a Sancho type deal. United develop youth better than BVB ever did, if the stories are true and he's chosen them i'd walk away

I mean, the lad's 16, he doesn't even know what he wants for breakfast. His agent and parents are making this decision for him.

 

[Adisa]

At £30m, wouldn't he be Dortmund's record signing?

 

[crossy1686]

At £30m, wouldn't he be Dortmund's record signing?

Something like that, they've only been interested in him because they thought they could get him on a Sancho type deal (£7m at the end of his contract). They'll most likely want him to run his contract down and walk away for free or force Birmingham to sell on the cheap when he's got a year left.

 

[Red Company]

Know they aren't the most reliable source but saw MEN saying that Ole wants to bring in a winger, centre midfielder and playmaker, so maybe that's

Winger - Sancho
CM - Bellingham
Playmaker - Grealish/Van Der Beek

The muppet inside me see’s this as the story of the three Js: Jadon, Jack & Jude.

Im starting to think that post Covid, when Ed & Ole hinted about being aggressive in the transfer market, the idea was to try and drive out the competition for each of our primary targets and try to close those deals at lower prices if possible.

Obviously Covid has hit us badly too though so when Ed mentioned there wouldn’t be deals for 100s of millions, maybe he was trying to hint we wouldn’t be paying any sort of such fees, with payment plans like the Maguire deal with huge upfront payments.

The only way these deals will go through will be if the payment plans suit us. Sure they might include easily attainable add-ons but I’m convinced that these signings will yield enough additional revenues (jersey sales, improved commercial deals, etc) for us which we can divert towards the payments.

 

[steve.crowford]

To add on to this they know that Sancho is gonna cost £100-£120 million and they know his salary demands. These things aren’t going to surprise them. They wouldn’t even bother if they thought that’s too much money. The only real details to work out are agent fees and how the payments are structured. Granted talks can break and neither side could want to compromise or cave. Also Dortmund can’t really afford to lose out on an influx of £100 million in the current situation where there are no fans at games and we don’t know what the CL will look like next year or if it can happen plus what kind of loses they are taking now and will take on since they can’t hold their tournament as usual. Dortmund need that revenue like they do player sales. Hell their whole plan is buying young talent cheap and selling the ones who really breakout as stars for top dollar. If they can sell outside of Germany all the better. Turning down upwards of £120 million for a 19 year old is bad business. That money alone could field the next crop of great players to sell and let them grab more players or take chances on maybe more expensive ones like Bellingham. You could even see them try to leverage the Sancho situation to get Bellingham by telling Unites they will agree to terms if United back off Bellingham. United probably won’t do that, but it’s something that could be used for bargaining position.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

Even his highlights reel doesn't show extraordinary talent. Guess it is for those who have seen him play full matches to say whether he is worth the money given his age and inexperience.

He isn’t the flashiest of players but when considering ability context is important.

He is playing for a side who aren’t into free flowing attacking football they don’t have a system for extraordinary attacking players to flourish (I don’t consider Bellingham in that category yet).

However Bellingham does everything asked of him technically, ball control, ball carries, dribbling and passing etc to an already above average standard at 16. He also copes very well with the physical side age considered. He looks very comfortable already in the mens game.

He’s not scoring regularly, nor assisting but that’s to be expected in the team he’s in. Plonk Messi into Birmingham and he’d soon get frustrated

So from an objective point of view is see:

• Good technique
• Physically capable
• Very young
• Composed
• Flexible positionally
• Reasonable end product (Especially from wide)
  

£30m is a lot to pay for anything and I think it’s a little steep for Bellingham as he’s not tearing the Championship up but it wouldn’t bother me too much as I think there are a lot of positive signs. I do think people who haven’t seen him play a full match would be a bit disappointed at first glance but how many 16 year olds do you see cope with men’s football?

 

[Red Company]

To add on to this they know that Sancho is gonna cost £100-£120 million and they know his salary demands. These things aren’t going to surprise them. They wouldn’t even bother if they thought that’s too much money. The only real details to work out are agent fees and how the payments are structured. Granted talks can break and neither side could want to compromise or cave. Also Dortmund can’t really afford to lose out on an influx of £100 million in the current situation where there are no fans at games and we don’t know what the CL will look like next year or if it can happen plus what kind of loses they are taking now and will take on since they can’t hold their tournament as usual. Dortmund need that revenue like they do player sales. Hell their whole plan is buying young talent cheap and selling the ones who really breakout as stars for top dollar. If they can sell outside of Germany all the better. Turning down upwards of £120 million for a 19 year old is bad business. That money alone could field the next crop of great players to sell and let them grab more players or take chances on maybe more expensive ones like Bellingham. You could even see them try to leverage the Sancho situation to get Bellingham by telling Unites they will agree to terms if United back off Bellingham. United probably won’t do that, but it’s something that could be used for bargaining position.

Wages (salary), yes it’ll remain the same.

But the £100-120m price you quoted is what is not known for sure anymore.
If we truly are the only serious contender, we will be able to bring that price down (probably not a lot but enough to get the because as you rightly pointed out, Dortmund need the return on investment.

Agent fees, will be relative to the transfer amount. Those will probably not be that big of an obstacle if the %rate has already been agreed.

As for Bellingham, we can only use that to our advantage if we’re truly not interested in signing him but the noise suggests we are interested in both the players.

 

[GledTheRed]

Something like that, they've only been interested in him because they thought they could get him on a Sancho type deal (£7m at the end of his contract). They'll most likely want him to run his contract down and walk away for free or force Birmingham to sell on the cheap when he's got a year left.

Yep, they're a disgrace really.

 

[izec]

At £30m, wouldn't he be Dortmund's record signing?

Yes. They won't buy him if they have to pay 30m. That would make it interesting. Will he wait another year and go there cheaper or will he move to us this summer.

 

[do.ob]

Something like that, they've only been interested in him because they thought they could get him on a Sancho type deal (£7m at the end of his contract). They'll most likely want him to run his contract down and walk away for free or force Birmingham to sell on the cheap when he's got a year left.

It's a really weird coincidence then that the outlets most of this is based on are also reporting that Dortmund have bid €20m-€25m

 

[Striker10]

It's a really weird coincidence then that the outlets most of this is based on are also reporting that Dortmund have bid €20m-€25m

One thing you learn in life, is that very few people tell the truth and they never tell the truth during negotiations until the last moment. To many fingers in the pies. Maybe they offered that and their thinking is he could actually be a top player for them but of course they will want to get him as cheap as possible and it is likely the player would leave at some point. Just how it goes. But of course also they would want a profit. At the end of the day, the longer it takes, the more people tend to lie.

 

[wolvored]

I think it's stance we should take tbh, Ole did similar with Dybala last year. Bellingham shouldn't have a decision to make after we rolled SAF out. I'd walk away if he doesn't view us an number 1.

This. Ole wants players whos first choice is Utd, not want to go somewhere else, but ends up here because for whatever reason the other club cant afford him or we offer insane wages. Havent we learned from ADM and Sanchez. Different ends of the spectrum I know, but the facts are the same.

 

[Nickosaur]

He has 32 games this season in the championship, how big are your hands?

 

[Lynty]

Nothing suggests he’s remotely as talented as Rooney.

Rooney was the most complete footballer whilst still being a teenager the country has ever seen.

At the same age of 16 Rooney was banging in wonder goals against Arsenal.
This lad has had a handful of games for Birmingham.

I agree he looks the real deal but it’s risky. Rooney was the safest possible bet.

He's been a main stay in the Birmingham squad and demonstrated he's a very complete footballer playing in every position in midfield. You're doing a bit of disservice to the lad.

Bellingham at 16, 32 games and 4 goals 3 assists
Rooney at 16, 33 games and 6 goals
Rooney at 17, 34 games 9 goals 1 assist

Predicting youth progression is impossible, there no knowing if he'll be worth £100m in 5 years. But i'd say £30m is as safe a bet as your going to get.

 

[Dante]

He has 32 games this season in the championship, how big are your hands?

 

[0le]

I am surprised Liverpool are not in for him. If there is any weak link (on paper) in their team, it is midfield.

 

[RUCK4444]

Hah I count them multiple times. Ok more than I thought but still, the Championship to PL is a gigantic step up, especially in a position so heavily involved in every game.

 

[DWelbz19]

He has 32 games this season in the championship, how big are your hands?

Heh.

 

[RUCK4444]

He's been a main stay in the Birmingham squad and demonstrated he's a very complete footballer playing in every position in midfield. You're doing a bit of disservice to the lad.

Bellingham at 16, 32 games and 4 goals 3 assists
Rooney at 16, 33 games and 6 goals
Rooney at 17, 34 games 9 goals 1 assist

Predicting youth progression is impossible, there no knowing if he'll be worth £100m in 5 years. But i'd say £30m is as safe a bet as your going to get.

Yeah listen I said in the post he does look the real deal, just think £30 mill is a lot of money, particularly in this COVID affected transfer window... especially when there are big opportunities for us to sign established world beaters like Sancho, Havertz etc.

I would love us to get this lad along with VDB and Sancho (in reverse priority.)

I’m still the one pushing us to spend as big as we can in this window with the opportunity it presents, I just want to make sure we make every million count.

Edit: what happened to this lad moving for free, other than the basic compensation for Birmingham?

 

[BenitoSTARR]

He's been a main stay in the Birmingham squad and demonstrated he's a very complete footballer playing in every position in midfield. You're doing a bit of disservice to the lad.

Bellingham at 16, 32 games and 4 goals 3 assists
Rooney at 16, 33 games and 6 goals
Rooney at 17, 34 games 9 goals 1 assist

Predicting youth progression is impossible, there no knowing if he'll be worth £100m in 5 years. But i'd say £30m is as safe a bet as your going to get.

We do need to be wary of Rooney comparisons as I agree some are doing him a disservice but even mentioning them in the same breath at the moment is perhaps swinging

Rooney was performing well in the PL and had some truly outstanding moments. He showed an awful lot more than Bellingham regardless of stats the eye test is just as important if not more important at youth level. If you see consistently good decisions but maybe not elite execution that’s the sign of potential IMO as decision making is harder to perfect then technique which you can practice on your own.

Rooney was at the same age, unquestionably a better player.

However that doesn’t mean Bellingham isn’t a good investment. I’d argue £20m is probably a fairer fee for what he’s actually done.

 

[RUCK4444]

He's been a main stay in the Birmingham squad and demonstrated he's a very complete footballer playing in every position in midfield. You're doing a bit of disservice to the lad.

Bellingham at 16, 32 games and 4 goals 3 assists
Rooney at 16, 33 games and 6 goals
Rooney at 17, 34 games 9 goals 1 assist

Predicting youth progression is impossible, there no knowing if he'll be worth £100m in 5 years. But i'd say £30m is as safe a bet as your going to get.

Yeah I do want us to get him just saying it’s a stretch to compare to Rooney and therefore it’sstill a relative gamble.

Those stats you posted above are missing one major pointer, one set is in the Championship and the other set are in the PL. Just shows how incredible Rooney was as a kid.

Mad to think this kid can’t buy alcohol or watch a scary film and he’s moving for £30 million ha

I’m sure he will make it at some level in the PL but there is no guarantee that will be the very top.

 

[crossy1686]

Yeah I do want us to get him just saying it’s a stretch to compare to Rooney and therefore it’sstill a relative gamble.

Those stats you posted above are missing one major pointer, one set is in the Championship and the other set are in the PL. Just shows how incredible Rooney was as a kid.

Mad to think this kid can’t buy alcohol or watch a scary film and he’s moving for £30 million ha

I’m sure he will make it at some level in the PL but there is no guarantee that will be the very top.

The Championship is closer to PL level than most would like to admit. That league isn't like other countries where the difference in quality between the top tier and the leagues below is night and day. The Championship is better than most first divisions around the world.

 

[Lynty]

I agree, there is no telling if he can reach Rooney ability.

But I think you can say for certain he'll be £30m player in a few years.

 

[RUCK4444]

The Championship is closer to PL level than most would like to admit. That league isn't like other countries where the difference in quality between the top tier and the leagues below is night and day. The Championship is better than most first divisions around the world.

Whilst I would agree that the Championship is better than most first divisions, the PL is perhaps the most competitive league in world football. I know there will be posters that jump on me for saying that but hey ho.

If you watch both the PL and Championship regularly the quality is not just big it's a chasm for the most part. The top Championship teams will come up and hold their own but outside of the teams in the playoff places the step down in quality is massive.

I have the misfortune of watching countless games at Cardiff city as our company has a box there for customers, the games are painful to watch, and Cardiff aren't great but are in the playoff places quite consistently.

The FA cup skews opinion on the quality of the championship, there are upsets mainly through PL sides resting players and it makes the Championship look in some way comparable to the Premier League. It's a competitive league and possibly the hardest league to be promoted from but the biggest challenge for teams that do is staying in the top flight. Literally every club in the PL have crazy funds from top to bottom now, the gap will get bigger every year imo.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

The Championship is closer to PL level than most would like to admit. That league isn't like other countries where the difference in quality between the top tier and the leagues below is night and day. The Championship is better than most first divisions around the world.

It really isn’t on average.

Take the average PL team so 10th/11th place ish. Burnley and Palace both on 39 points that’s 1 point behind Arsenal (game in hand) and 2 points behind Tottenham.

Compare that to the average 12/13th placed Championship side Derby/QPR and the gulf is huge.

The only teams close to PL level in the Championship right now are Leeds and West Brom and both of them would struggle in the current PL.

However it is still a much better second division than most others.

 

[seegoblu]

Yes. They won't buy him if they have to pay 30m. That would make it interesting. Will he wait another year and go there cheaper or will he move to us this summer.

I believe that he hasn’t signed his first professional contract yet, so there is nothing to run down. I also believe that it’s been reported that his family doesn’t want to leave Birmingham in a bad place and would sign the initial contract and then be transferred to the team that meets Birmingham’s quote.

However, Jude holds all the cards here. If Birmingham’s quoted fee is preventing him from joining his preferred new club I don’t see why he can’t refuse to sign his initial professional contract with Birmingham and then leave to join the club he prefers with them owing only the development fee set by a tribunal (I believe that’s true for both Man Utd and BVB).

Essentially, if Jude thinks BVB is the place for him, he has the leverage to force Birmingham to accept a more reasonable transfer fee or they risk getting whatever development fee is set for him, which I assume would only be a fraction of what Birmingham could negotiate for.

 

[Mark Pawelek]

At £30m, wouldn't he be Dortmund's record signing?

Yes. Their current record is Mats Hummels for £27.45m from Munich, last summer.

 

[Zlatattack]

I think it's stance we should take tbh, Ole did similar with Dybala last year. Bellingham shouldn't have a decision to make after we rolled SAF out. I'd walk away if he doesn't view us an number 1.

I agree. We need the players who want to be here at our club.

 

[lysglimt]

Nothing suggests he’s remotely as talented as Rooney.

Rooney was the most complete footballer whilst still being a teenager the country has ever seen.

At the same age of 16 Rooney was banging in wonder goals against Arsenal.
This lad has had a handful of games for Birmingham.

I agree he looks the real deal but it’s risky. Rooney was the safest possible bet.

Well - if he is the 2nd most talented player the country has seen in 20 years - that should say something. And as much as I agree with you on Rooney - in addition to being a brilliant footballer, he was physically perhaps the most developed 16 year old in modern football. Bellingham is not - and still he plays in the Championship.

 

[RUCK4444]

Well - if he is the 2nd most talented player the country has seen in 20 years - that should say something. And as much as I agree with you on Rooney - in addition to being a brilliant footballer, he was physically perhaps the most developed 16 year old in modern football. Bellingham is not - and still he plays in the Championship.

Yeah fair point. I posted also that I believe he will make it in the PL it’s just very hard to predict to what level.

I would be happy if we got him, I just want to be sure we get the players we need to really make some good progress under Ole next season.

I’m happy to take a punt on a youngster but this transfer window we need to make sure we get the Established players that we need and that are available - no transfer window presents this sort of opportunity for us to bridge the gap more quickly. I’m desperate for us to make the most of it, 6 years in the wilderness has taken its toll on me.

 

[Compton22]

 

[crossy1686]

Dortmund are jokers. They have sold Dembele and Pulisic for daft money over the last couple of years and they're bidding €20m for one of England's brightest prospects.