Jude Bellingham | Confirmed Borussia Dortmund player

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TheReligion said:
Your level of education is showing through the insults you keep throwing.
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TheReligion said:
TLDR - Shut the feck up you miserable cnut
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I almost let you go but watching you scamper from pillar to post is amusing.

You’ve been throwing insults from yesterday morning & have been spun more time’s than a ballerina yet here we still are. . .

So now you’ve done racebaiting, mis-quoting, stating the obvious, telling people stop long after being told to jog we’re now onto highlighting my insults when you've had a hard on for me for over a day.

I said I was disappointed we might not sign a player & you’ve been foaming at the mouth ever since. Stick to the subject.

TheReligion said:
Especially as you continue to chunter about masturbating. You little deviant.
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From pillar to post. . .

TheReligion said:
Sorry about him. He's still learning his way around the Caf and etiquette when dealing with experienced posters.
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‘experienced poster’, sorry Regina George :lol:

Congratulations on your 20k+ posts, on an internet forum.

Don't forget lad this is all because I want players to be treated like slaves. . . funny how cause that went left you’ve gone in multiple directions since. Stay on topic.

We can leave it or keep going - you’ve gone so far from your original narrative is a wonder where your millennial petulance will go next.

“he’s learning his way around the caf” :lol: it’s not that deep son :lol:
 
AFC NimbleThumb said:
I almost let you go but watching you scamper from pillar to post is amusing.

You’ve been throwing insults from yesterday morning & have been spun more time’s than a ballerina yet here we still are. . .

So now you’ve done racebaiting, mis-quoting, stating the obvious, telling people stop long after being told to jog we’re now onto highlighting my insults when you've had a hard on for me for over a day.

I said I was disappointed we might not sign a player & you’ve been foaming at the mouth ever since. Stick to the subject.


From pillar to post. . .


‘experienced poster’, sorry Regina George :lol:

Congratulations on your 20k+ posts, on an internet forum.

Don't forget lad this is all because I want players to be treated like slaves. . . funny how cause that went left you’ve gone in multiple directions since. Stay on topic.

We can leave it or keep going - you’ve gone so far from your original narrative is a wonder where your millennial petulance will go next.

“he’s learning his way around the caf” :lol: it’s not that deep son :lol:
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I don't need to mention the slave trade anymore as you've been thoroughly educated on the matter since I broached it with you. I'm now satisfied you understand that's not how the club operates nor should it. The last thing anyone wants is a transfer committee that conducts it's business like the Gestapo. That said, I do wish you'd stop going on about 'hard ons' and 'masturbation'. This is a football site for football people. It doesn't need your X rated comments thank you very much. I'll give you a pass this time though as you're still learning your way around here as discussed previously. I'm happy to help you get settled. Water under the bridge. No hard feelings (Not hard ons though please).

Anyway, if you need any more help or guidance feel welcome to drop me a PM.
 
Someone on Talk Shite said he is the biggest english talent since Rooney. If that is the case we should offer £5 million more than Dortmund and offer Bellingham £30,000 a week more to get him. Bruno has shown that when scouted right, buying top class talent makes an heck of a difference. If we get Sancho and a striker (Kane? maybe) as well, we could be challenging for at least top 3 next season.
 
Don't think we'll get him. Also not sure we should if his camp is demanding first-team football for him. Kid is 16 ffs, why would they want him playing regularly at 16? It's likely he'll be burnt out before his playing days are over if he isn't managed carefully at a young age.
 
SmashedHombre said:
Don't think we'll get him. Also not sure we should if his camp is demanding first-team football for him. Kid is 16 ffs, why would they want him playing regularly at 16? It's likely he'll be burnt out before his playing days are over if he isn't managed carefully at a young age.
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Because he is already playing regularly at 16
Similar to James Milner
 
Cassidy said:
Because he is already playing regularly at 16
Similar to James Milner
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I know he is, but that doesn't really answer my question. He's 16. The pressures of being a first team regular at 16 for a club like United or Dortmund are very different to Birmingham and it could also very easily lead to burn out later in his career. If his camp are trying to dictate how often he features then we should be backing way off.
 
The few times I’ve seen him in the Championship he’s been out the wing and was basically non-existant. A few matches like that here without a goal to mask the shortcomings of a teenager and he’d be getting abused online like our current players. It’s hardly surprising why the parents of a kid doesn’t want him to play here.
 
SmashedHombre said:
I know he is, but that doesn't really answer my question. He's 16. The pressures of being a first team regular at 16 for a club like United or Dortmund are very different to Birmingham and it could also very easily lead to burn out later in his career. If his camp are trying to dictate how often he features then we should be backing way off.
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His camp should also not let him move to a club not play all season or play u23 football whcih would stall his development. His camp obviously need to ensure where ever he goes playing time and development plan is spot on.
 
Cassidy said:
His camp should also not let him move to a club not play all season or play u23 football whcih would stall his development. His camp obviously need to ensure where ever he goes playing time and development plan is spot on.
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I can't imagine we approached them and said we'd stick him in the U23 all season. There's obviously a happy medium, but either way if they're trying to dictate to us then just walk away.
 
My gut feeling is that he has maybe seen how Sancho has really benefitted from moving to Dortmund at a young age and wants to follow a very similar path to him
 
jackal&hyde said:
It's a difficult one for the boy. Given his age and need to play i would think staying put is the best thing to do. Be it United or Dortmund he has little guarantee to continue his first team involvement. Dortmund can point at Sancho but United can point at Rashford and Greenwood also, and at a higher level in the prem. None of them were 16 and playing at their club though.

If he is guaranteed first team football at his club, and he is, i would sign for United with the caveat that he stays for one year on loan at his current team. Best of both worlds imo.
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Yes, sign him and loan him out for further development. I don’t feel like we do that very often for some reason.

If you believe he has the talent, communicate that clearly by getting him into the fold early on without stifling his development path. Look at Madrid and Odegaard or Chelsea with Matic - if the ability is there, you’re likely to at least recoup your investment, not to mention keeping him out of the hands of your rivals. And given how United operate, there is an obvious potential for a role in the first team if he can keep his current trajectory.

It’s not like Garner, Levitt or anyone else I’m aware of has really carved out any spot for themselves yet, so it would make sense in my opinion to widen the talent pool further in central midfield.

I suppose the main problem is that we would be drawing funds away from first team development, which is definitely needed, if we want to compete anytime soon. It’s tricky. I wish I trusted more in the clubs strategy and development infrastructure for decisions like this.

*Sigh*

Can I have one top level DoF, please?
 
Mark Pawelek said:
Because too many players we loaned out either came back very injured or didn't play?
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I wasn’t aware that we had a problematic pattern with this? Who are you referring to exactly?

I think there is a difference between investing early in top talent, and loaning out academy players who aren’t ready for the first team.
 
Would a sign and loan deal work?

Dortmund wouldn’t want him on loan from us I get that but maybe another prem or Championship team? With him knowing that in a year or 2 he’s a United player.
 
JJ12 said:
Would a sign and loan deal work?

Dortmund wouldn’t want him on loan from us I get that but maybe another prem or Championship team? With him knowing that in a year or 2 he’s a United player.
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The loan stage would be a huge risk. They do not always produce the desired results, and I suspect this is why United are protective with the best kids and try to keep them in house. Of course, that would mean academy football, which Bellingham doesn’t seem to want.
 
Rozay said:
The loan stage would be a huge risk. They do not always produce the desired results, and I suspect this is why United are protective with the best kids and try to keep them in house. Of course, that would mean academy football, which Bellingham doesn’t seem to want.
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Would it? Staying put at a team he's pretty much guaranteed to be first XI not far from the parent club and stay around his family at 16. The bigger risk is to up sticks and move to Dortmund at 16. Just because it worked out for Sancho, doesn't mean it will for him. For every Sancho there's an Ampadu, Lookman, Panzo, etc.
 
Valuedrug said:
Yes, sign him and loan him out for further development. I don’t feel like we do that very often for some reason.

If you believe he has the talent, communicate that clearly by getting him into the fold early on without stifling his development path. Look at Madrid and Odegaard or Chelsea with Matic - if the ability is there, you’re likely to at least recoup your investment, not to mention keeping him out of the hands of your rivals. And given how United operate, there is an obvious potential for a role in the first team if he can keep his current trajectory.

It’s not like Garner, Levitt or anyone else I’m aware of has really carved out any spot for themselves yet, so it would make sense in my opinion to widen the talent pool further in central midfield.

I suppose the main problem is that we would be drawing funds away from first team development, which is definitely needed, if we want to compete anytime soon. It’s tricky. I wish I trusted more in the clubs strategy and development infrastructure for decisions like this.

*Sigh*

Can I have one top level DoF, please?
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Slightly off topic but i think the DOF thing is vastly over rated. A lot of teams have them and they are not always the best. The most successful club, Real Madrid, did not get there because of some great DOF or footballing genius with connections or what not, they do it by having a clear and undeniable philosophy that a simple fan can put in place: bring some of the best players in the World and play attacking football. United lost its way very badly after SAF going from possession football under LVG to pragmatic under Mourinho and that has created a squad without identity. Ole is doing great right now in bringing back what he calls "culture" of both quality and character but if he gets sacked we revert to whatever the new manager wants.

A DOF is an employ and nothing more; a club like United must have an identity that comes from the owners, CEO and the fans. It's not complicated. It turned out that without SAF, the rest of the club was completely clueless.
 
Lash said:
Would it? Staying put at a team he's pretty much guaranteed to be first XI not far from the parent club and stay around his family at 16. The bigger risk is to up sticks and move to Dortmund at 16. Just because it worked out for Sancho, doesn't mean it will for him. For every Sancho there's an Ampadu, Lookman, Panzo, etc.
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That is assuming the loan stage necessarily means a loan to Birmingham. We may want to loan him to an Eridevise team, or to Germany, or PL etc. Staying at Brum would have it’s benefits, however, at some stage, we would surely want him to play elsewhere other than Birmingham City. Going from there into our team are still very different environments, and there a whole host of mediums in between.
 
If Brum are broke can’t we just bid more than Dortmund?
 
If he’s looking to start at some team then we’re off the race, I don't think he’s ready to be starting for us but Dortmund seems the kind of club where he could play everyweek.

So I think the scenario is the following we either think he’s ready to be starting everyweek and we should buy him or we wont get him.
 
Adnan said:
I think it's a case of winning hearts and minds mate.
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Sure, I think Dortmund is a much better option for him, but if Birmingham are in dire straits they might not mess about. However, if we do end up signing Sancho we might get asked to back off here by Dortmund as part of the deal.
 
Whoever his entourage are, I don’t think it’s a good idea to allow them to be dictating to a club like United, or any other reputable club, when he should play. An outline of a plan would be understandable but I really doubt they are actually demanding he should be an immediate starter.
 
Denis' cuff said:
Whoever his entourage are, I don’t think it’s a good idea to allow them to be dictating to a club like United, or any other reputable club, when he should play. An outline of a plan would be understandable but I really doubt they are actually demanding he should be an immediate starter.
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Players in demand hold all the aces. We’re a club in transition, he can choose whichever club he wants. He’s entitled to it.
 
Is he really that big a talent? Ridiculously good in terms of technical qualities and intelligence or someone who is ahead of the curve partly because of physical development?
 
pascell said:
We already have according to reports, still doesn't mean a thing if the player doesn't want the move.
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If UTD is not attractive to young English kid who plays for a club like Birmingham then we need to introspect ourselves for sure.
 
Dortmund seems like a no-brainer for him. If he comes to Utd then he will be second fiddle to Bruno for many years. If he goes to Dortmund, he'll be in the first team within a year. Can play first team football for a few years until he is worth 160 million, then choose whoever he wants after that.
 
It maybe whimsical, but I do like the idea of signing players that really want to play for us. If he would prefer to play for someone else then goodbye and good luck.
 
I'm not quite sure why so much furore over Bellingham. The evidence from watching him says he's a good 2 or 3 years away from being anything near a mainstay in a top club's midfield. He's way above the curve given his age but still far from the ready to go article, never mind finished. Haaland was ready, and already tearing up the champions league, so we rightly mourn losing him. Bellingham is nowhere near that category. Buy Grealish and a DM and we're stocked in midfield, with backups better than Bellingham. Just like for all of Sancho's heroics, Citeh never actually missed him, with what they have in his position. Let's watch Bellingham attempt the step up first, and justify the hype...
 
jackal&hyde said:
Slightly off topic but i think the DOF thing is vastly over rated. A lot of teams have them and they are not always the best. The most successful club, Real Madrid, did not get there because of some great DOF or footballing genius with connections or what not, they do it by having a clear and undeniable philosophy that a simple fan can put in place: bring some of the best players in the World and play attacking football. United lost its way very badly after SAF going from possession football under LVG to pragmatic under Mourinho and that has created a squad without identity. Ole is doing great right now in bringing back what he calls "culture" of both quality and character but if he gets sacked we revert to whatever the new manager wants.

A DOF is an employ and nothing more; a club like United must have an identity that comes from the owners, CEO and the fans. It's not complicated. It turned out that without SAF, the rest of the club was completely clueless.
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I agree a DoF isn’t automatically going to fix our problems. If Woodward waters down the position enough, it really means nothing, assuming we ever actually hire one to begin with.

However, what you point out in terms of United following the whims of whatever manager is in place is exactly what a competent DoF is supposed to counteract. In a much more complex world, where manager stability like what we had with Ferguson doesn’t exist anymore, you need a figure with both a mandate and an incentive for long term planning for the clubs football project. Look no further than our arch rivals to see what the right kind of structure can do for you in this regard.

Also I don’t think the way you describe Madrid is entirely accurate. Florentino Perez is essentially the DoF of Madrid, or perhaps dictator is a better word. Should he die or somehow be toppled in their internal elections, Real Madrid could very quickly become engulfed in a power struggle between the different factions there and lose any continuity they seem to have to outside observers.

If United hired a DoF, it would allow the owners as well as the commercially minded folks to focus on what they’re actually good at. For the owners that would mean continuing to shackle the club with profit extraction, while enjoying a life in undeserved luxury. For the likes of Woodward and Judge it would mean being hidden away backstage, shuffling around in offices discussing how to market red tinged soft drinks and low grade protein powders in Singapore.

Which is exactly why United will never actually get a DoF in the first place. It’s just a lot more fun for a conceited narcissist like Woodward to land the big transfers, and read about himself in the papers than doing the job he is actually qualified to do.
 
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jackal&hyde said:
Slightly off topic but i think the DOF thing is vastly over rated. A lot of teams have them and they are not always the best. The most successful club, Real Madrid, did not get there because of some great DOF or footballing genius with connections or what not, they do it by having a clear and undeniable philosophy that a simple fan can put in place: bring some of the best players in the World and play attacking football. United lost its way very badly after SAF going from possession football under LVG to pragmatic under Mourinho and that has created a squad without identity. Ole is doing great right now in bringing back what he calls "culture" of both quality and character but if he gets sacked we revert to whatever the new manager wants.

A DOF is an employ and nothing more; a club like United must have an identity that comes from the owners, CEO and the fans. It's not complicated. It turned out that without SAF, the rest of the club was completely clueless.
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In agreement with this, been saying similar for a while now.
 
Dortmund have an advantage because it's a good league to develop in, although you've still got to be special to get a game with them. It isn't just United, the big PL clubs don't have the pull for youngsters they used to. Lots of young players are choosing easier leagues or mid level clubs to develop at before a big move. To see a young player like Lamptey reject a contract at Chelsea to sign for Brighton in January just wouldn't have happened in times gone by.
 
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Don't understand the fuss. On the one hand people complain at young English talent never leaving the country. On the other, they blow a fuse when someone does.

I'm more concerned about us losing Angel Gomes than not bringing in Bellingham to play in our U23s.
 
Valuedrug said:
I wasn’t aware that we had a problematic pattern with this? Who are you referring to exactly?

I think there is a difference between investing early in top talent, and loaning out academy players who aren’t ready for the first team.
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TFM and Demetri Mitchell suffered big injuries playing out on loan setting them back over 6 months. CBJ did not progress on loan and his pass completion is worse today that 3 years ago. Last January transfer window passed with at least one club chasing a loan move for Garner but no interest in us loaning him out.
 
Mark Pawelek said:
TFM and Demetri Mitchell suffered big injuries playing out on loan setting them back over 6 months. CBJ did not progress on loan and his pass completion is worse today that 3 years ago. Last January transfer window passed with at least one club chasing a loan move for Garner but no interest in us loaning him out.
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I don’t think any of those cases really compare to the Bellingham one though.

CBJ was just some random academy player LVG all of the sudden decided to try out. Mitchell looks like a similar case, a relatively unspectacular youth player. TFM according to transfermarkt was bought from Ajax for a small fee, and so far hasn’t developed the way the club no doubt hoped he would, when he was bought 6 years ago. That two of them were unlucky, and got injured doesn’t seem to represent much of a pattern really. Players get injured.

Quite unlike any of them, Bellingham is impressing as a Championship regular at 16. His technical ability as well as his understanding of the game is being talked up by a number of reputable sources. On paper this seems like exactly the kind of talent United should be betting on, unless the youth coaches think he would get in the way of similarly talented midfielders already at the club.
 
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amolbhatia50k said:
Is he really that big a talent? Ridiculously good in terms of technical qualities and intelligence or someone who is ahead of the curve partly because of physical development?
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If you've watched him he's really good for his age. Physical development has nothing to do with it. He's not Janko or TFM.
 
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