awful performance
8
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 40
- Goals
- 3
- Assists
- 7
- Yellow cards
- 1
- Status
He wasn't awful.
I thought he was solid. Been solid both games.
He was for me. I hope he doesn't start next week.
It should be him or Mkhi. Not both.
I think he's playing an important role to keep the ball moving and helping us to control the midfield. He's got a good understanding with Valencia now as well which is good and hopefully he can build the same with the other attackers.
What did he do that was awful? You could say he was quiet, but that doesn't constitute an awful performance. When he had the ball, he was neat and tidy and tried to keep us flowing.
Definitely, his and Mkhis passing play has helped us against deep defences in contrast to when the game opens up and we go for the kill.
The last two games i don't think Jose could have managed the different phases of the game any better.
He did nothing. It's awful for a number 10.
Agreed on both. Think the man management of the game has been really good.
The attack has a nice balance to it and think it's just a case of getting them to gel a bit more as still think Mata/Mikhi can bring more out of Rashford/Lukaku/Martial.
I thought he was ineffective. Didn't really offer much going forward, but he helped us in possession at least.
Would prefer a different player there.
Why are his corners so bad too? He was great at set-pieces while at Chelsea.
Would prefer a different player there.
Why are his corners so bad too? He was great at set-pieces while at Chelsea.
This. Prior to the 2nd goal today Mata was the only player running into/creating space for our attacks. Yes, he did not have his best game, but his clever footballing brain was still there for all to see. He should start next week against a team that will park the bus.
Not prominent enough imo. Difficult if he can keep his place and it is clear why Jose always subs him
He plays a very important but underrated role in us retaining possession. Rashford, Mkhi and even Martial are too erratic with the ball and this is where Mata comes in by helping to coordinate our attacks.
No need to drop him.
No need to drop him.
I agree and think we shouldnt drop him but play him behind Lukaku. Mkhi seemed to come alive today when he went out on the right wing and got 2 assist out of it. Before that he was involved all that much.
With Lukaku, Martial/Rashford and Mkhi with Pogba running in from midfield Mata would have plenty of pace around him to pick those passes. He doesnt get that on the wing, and his lack of pace hurts him out wide.
If the choice is between Mata or Lingard, then it's Mata every time for me. He adds far more all round quality to our general attacking play. On his good days his runs in behind create serious problems for defenders, and he scores goals and creates chances. On his not so good days, he is still always available, neat and tidy on the ball and keeps our play moving. I like his attitude too, even when it's not going well for him he never stops trying to have a positive influence on the game.
Personally, i like to see him in the first team, but i think he has also proven himself a very capable impact player coming off the bench too. Bottom line for me, he is a very clever player who regularly provides quality contributions for the team, whether he starts or not. An invaluable and hugely respected member of our squad and a fantastic role model for our club, imo. I hope he finishes his career with us, i have a feeling he will be far better appreciated at the end of his career than he seems to be at present. Maybe a bit similar to how it's panned out for Carrick in that regard.
Personally, i like to see him in the first team, but i think he has also proven himself a very capable impact player coming off the bench too. Bottom line for me, he is a very clever player who regularly provides quality contributions for the team, whether he starts or not. An invaluable and hugely respected member of our squad and a fantastic role model for our club, imo. I hope he finishes his career with us, i have a feeling he will be far better appreciated at the end of his career than he seems to be at present. Maybe a bit similar to how it's panned out for Carrick in that regard.
He was fine imo,
I thought Rashford was wasteful and Lukaku was a bit static but thought him and Mhikitariyan were 2 of our better players.
Playing him on the right wing puts pressure on others to offer width (Rashford and Valencia) and if they don't deliver as happened today he looks a bit redundant.
It wasn't a great game and he warranted the substitution but i'd still start him next week.
People talk about his lack of power and pace but we have it in abundance elsewhere. I think his passing and movement are needed as much and were pretty lacking in alternatives
I thought Rashford was wasteful and Lukaku was a bit static but thought him and Mhikitariyan were 2 of our better players.
Playing him on the right wing puts pressure on others to offer width (Rashford and Valencia) and if they don't deliver as happened today he looks a bit redundant.
It wasn't a great game and he warranted the substitution but i'd still start him next week.
People talk about his lack of power and pace but we have it in abundance elsewhere. I think his passing and movement are needed as much and were pretty lacking in alternatives
He's been worryingly invisible for the last few matches.
Yes he plays some tidy link up and will always pop up behind defensive lines with a clever run, but that just isn't enough for 90 minutes.
He seems to have got slower also which isn't good.
Yes he plays some tidy link up and will always pop up behind defensive lines with a clever run, but that just isn't enough for 90 minutes.
He seems to have got slower also which isn't good.
He'll be the one to organically fall out of this side I think. The last two games have shown his crippling lack of pace on and off the ball, some nice runs in the first game though you can see he stands out in this current side. Love the guy to bits and the spot is there to be taken from him, other than that pretty solid and loves a poach in the box so he will be useful for those games against packed defenses in their own half. On the counter I think he's a relatively pointless player.
Can't fault him though, works his balls off, loves the club, gives absolutely everything and he's a top guy. Keep working hard and wait for the wave to come into shore. No need to be slashing where there is no need to be slashing.
Can't fault him though, works his balls off, loves the club, gives absolutely everything and he's a top guy. Keep working hard and wait for the wave to come into shore. No need to be slashing where there is no need to be slashing.
Mkhi was the number 10. What did Mkhi do so well that Mata didn't before Swansea stopped being so defensive?
He wasn't playing 10. Did you even watch the game?
I wonder if the game didnt suit either Mikhi or Mata. Both of them excel in more open games where its end to end counter attacks. I think Mata can work well in these games where teams pack 10 players behind the ball but it wasnt the sort of game for Mikhi and so to me it looked like both suffered in the 1st half.
Mata got much better in the 2nd half but the game also changed and became a little more open in terms of space in the final third.
Mata got much better in the 2nd half but the game also changed and became a little more open in terms of space in the final third.
The obvious problem, highlighted in MOTD too, is that with Mkhi and Mata both on the pitch we're too narrow. They both drift centrally and occupy the same position. That means a) no width on the right b) no space in the middle. When Swansea are playing with 3 CBs and 2 DMs (pretty much) then you're not gonna penetrate through the middle. That's why for 80 mins we were struggling to create chances.
Mata individually did not do badly I just think this was the wrong game to try to accommodate both him and Mkhi on the pitch.
Mata individually did not do badly I just think this was the wrong game to try to accommodate both him and Mkhi on the pitch.
We can't fecking drop him.
We're shite without him in the side. Look at the Super Cup. There's no free flowing attack and fancy football without Juan Mata in the Team. It's painfully obvious to me.
We're shite without him in the side. Look at the Super Cup. There's no free flowing attack and fancy football without Juan Mata in the Team. It's painfully obvious to me.
Disagree. Already responded to you in Martial thread, the problem was more with Rashford making bad decision coming inside from the left too much AND Blind can't cover the left wing by all himself. Blind was too afraid against pressing resulting to safe sideway pass or rushed thing & made poor pass/cross.
Mata drifted inside to coordinate and help build up which to allow Pogba to get up the pitch, into the box as and attacking option for cross. Mata may not be outstanding, but he had his use. The problem is there is no cross coming in as I explained what happened with left wing. There were few tasty cross from the right. Swansea did quite well on their part to, that's quite clear.
Who's gonna put the crosses in mate? Rashford never puts crosses in from the left. He's a forward playing in the left wing. He cuts inside and shoots. He is never expected to put crosses in either. Blind had no better or worse game than Valencia. In fact Valencia is considered the more attacking full back (having been a winger and all that) and is expected to put more and better crosses in the box than anyone can from the left. So to say crosses should have been coming from the left is for me, like saying you've not watched us play in the last 2 years.
The difference between Rashford and Mata is that at least Rashford has pace and dribbling and pulls more than one defender on him, which is something that Mata can't do. Or lead a counter. Also if you look at heat maps his position is far more wide than Mata who is basically dead centre. Mata has better ball retention and is a better passer. He has his uses. But as soon as he's closed down on the wing he has to start running backwards to find a midfielder to pass it to or he'll lose the ball. Rashford offers some wing play, Mata offers none.
That's the point in wanting Rashford to do the job properly. He is forward, he is ulitized to do different job for the time being playing in wide position with Lukaku.
You what? Blind clearly had a worse game. This game he pretty much tried to rid the ball when being pressed which mean, poor cross or back pass and kill and momentum on left wing. Valencia crossing technique mean he is unlikely being productive, but offering width, stretching play to give other space to cross, he does perfectly well. In this match, our best crosses beside the set piece came from right wing.
Head toward the MOTD thread. You can see other poster posted image to call out Jenas MOTD bs, which I quoted and explained my view on how Blind & Rashford in that instance were supposed to be in questioned with their positioning/movement/run than Mata, Valencia keeping width on the right.
I am not comparing Mata & Rashford roles. I clearly explained Mata was afforded to stay central to let Pogba the freedom to come up the pitch and that Valencia is sufficient enough to keep width on the right wing, which Blind &a Rashford made a mess on the left this game. I meant this game. Not other games
Yeah, we won't agree on anything so I'll stop here.
Mkhitaryan has been a lot better than him in my opinion. Looks to me like Rashford should be moved right to allow Martial to start, team is performing well, but looks like there's a lack of balance. We have very little threat down the right wing unless Valencia gets forward.
This forum does my head in.Mata - quiet game, plays plenty of sideways passes, no penetration.
Caf - his movement was good.
Kagawa - same except played inconsistently
Caf - rubbish player
United 4-0 West Ham
Swansea 0-4 United
Caf- Drop him.
Even if we do drop him, who'll play right wing. Lingard? He's not better than Mata. Mkhi? Then who plays behind the striker? Rashford and Martial are ineffective behind another target man. They need to play there themselves. Or be content from the left.
Simply put, if it ain't broke don't fix it. He's done nothing wrong.
Swansea 0-4 United
Caf- Drop him.
Even if we do drop him, who'll play right wing. Lingard? He's not better than Mata. Mkhi? Then who plays behind the striker? Rashford and Martial are ineffective behind another target man. They need to play there themselves. Or be content from the left.
Simply put, if it ain't broke don't fix it. He's done nothing wrong.
Mata isn't an asset in these sort of games and when we play narrow through the middle with makeshift full backs like Valencia and Blind. He lacks page, and is not able to run the sidelines to provide crosses into the box, something our new striker would definitely cherish.
Instead he brings creativity and a sound footballing brain. Unfortunately, yesterday we needed a fast battering ram - not a silky player. I hate to say this but Mata is slowly appearing to be a "luxury" player when played on the right.
Instead he brings creativity and a sound footballing brain. Unfortunately, yesterday we needed a fast battering ram - not a silky player. I hate to say this but Mata is slowly appearing to be a "luxury" player when played on the right.
First of all, Valencia isn't a make-shift fullback, he's been playing that position for several seasons now. It's like calling Schweinsteiger a make-shift midfielder because he started out on the left wing. He also does a fine job providing the width down the right hand side.
Btw, Mata made 5 crosses (excluding set pieces) against Swansea, more than any other United player. Swansea packed their box and were better than us aerially, so there's no guarantee going down the byline and putting more wide crosses in would have done us any good. I also don't know how pace is supposed to help us break down a team that barely presses in midfield and keeps ten men well behind the ball at all times.
What we actually need to score goals against low block defenses is quick tempo, good movement, and slick passing. All of these things Mata provides.
Silent dominant. Eerily silent.
I would not change a winning team although Martial is now breathing down Rashford and Mata's neck for their place. Mata has been quiet but does offer us good ball retention but sometimes he's to safe in possession and slows us down with his lack of pace when we counter. Although his quality in and around the box is his main attribute as he has a wand of a left foot although set pieces have been a little underwhelming from him. Much better than Lingard but I think he will eventually be replaced by a player that can keep possession but also take a man on (B Silva) would have been perfect in my opinion to come in but that ship has sailed.
I don't think his ball retention is something to really shout about, he's not an Isco/David Silva style press resistant machine and he can't compensate that with being a great creator like De Bruyne either. I like Mata but yesterday was a forgettable performance and I think he'll start less and less as the weeks go on.
I don't get it, he looked so much more lively at Chelsea.
It's actually not true, at the very least he took a free kick that ended with Jones hitting the crossbar, it was a very good set piece delivery. Very alike Mkitaryan's free kick against West ham, which Lukaku converted.
However, it is indeed visible for the second match in a row that compared to Mkitaryan (a similar type player) he on average performed worse).
I'd like him to start games for now. His runs are pretty clever that force defenders to be on their toes and since is is a free role, he manages to tire the opposition defenders mentally more than physically. Martial coming on against those tired defenders is much more lethal than other way round
Against teams that setup like Swansea did (very compact and physically) the best chance there is of scoring apart from a well executed set piece is stretching the pitch as wide as possible which is something Mata doesn't offer, he should be played as a CAM or not at all in the big/ tough games unless you give Valencia more freedom to be adventurous and give Mata an option. He and valencia look disjointed on the right side the way we were set up. On paper they should work out very well with Mata cutting in and Valencia overlapping, but Valencia has been reluctant to do this since if we lose the ball down that side Mata won't be the one to win it back, try as he might (and always does).
For a player like Mata space is oxygen, he doesn't win physical battles and he's not going to beat a player for pace, so if you limit his room to recieve and turn on the ball and the space for him to feed the ball into he's going to be very ineffective trying to squeeze him into the same position as Mkhitaryan thereby limiting space and options for both.
I don't think you could exactly describe his performance as awful. Ineffective yes, but if you call his ball retention and ability to create two very good chances from a cross and a set piece despite being played out of position in a game where he was just physically over-matched awful then I don't think I wanna know what words you'd used to describe my game even on a good day.
The trouble is, is that statistics don't tell the whole story. I recall two crosses in the second half for which he was unable to generate any real power because he was spent after a first half of trying to withstand overwhelming physical pressure every time he received the ball. The reason why pace helps you break down a team like that is because it stretches the pitch, forces them to be less compact and opens up pockets of space for things to happen. During the first half Swansea were so comfortable with Mata they could afford to double-mark Rashford on the opposite side and make it very hard for him to create anything.
I agree with the second point, but only if you play Mata in his correct position or with Valencia given more freedom to attack
For a player like Mata space is oxygen, he doesn't win physical battles and he's not going to beat a player for pace, so if you limit his room to recieve and turn on the ball and the space for him to feed the ball into he's going to be very ineffective trying to squeeze him into the same position as Mkhitaryan thereby limiting space and options for both.
I don't think you could exactly describe his performance as awful. Ineffective yes, but if you call his ball retention and ability to create two very good chances from a cross and a set piece despite being played out of position in a game where he was just physically over-matched awful then I don't think I wanna know what words you'd used to describe my game even on a good day.
The trouble is, is that statistics don't tell the whole story. I recall two crosses in the second half for which he was unable to generate any real power because he was spent after a first half of trying to withstand overwhelming physical pressure every time he received the ball. The reason why pace helps you break down a team like that is because it stretches the pitch, forces them to be less compact and opens up pockets of space for things to happen. During the first half Swansea were so comfortable with Mata they could afford to double-mark Rashford on the opposite side and make it very hard for him to create anything.
I agree with the second point, but only if you play Mata in his correct position or with Valencia given more freedom to attack
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He has a goal coming. Jose likes him as a starter against lower level teams who just like to defend. Only complain I have from.mata this season so far is lack of adventure. He seems to prefer playing safe. I want to see him shooting more as he is a better finisher than mkhi. This is why I feel he should keep his place as a goal is coming from him.
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