Ozil and Silva are #10s who have been played out wide before. It's a pretty standard way to use that sort of player really. Think Payet nominally plays LW for West Ham a lot of the time too?
8
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 42
- Goals
- 10
- Assists
- 6
- Yellow cards
- 5
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Ozil and Silva are #10s who have been played out wide before. It's a pretty standard way to use that sort of player really. Think Payet nominally plays LW for West Ham a lot of the time too?
He would be much better as a number 10 but he's done well as a RM here. He's never gonna breeze past players and take them on, but he can cut inside and deliver a killer through pass to one of our attackers.
I honestly just love watching him play. He's magical at times. So unselfish too. There's been times where you think he's gonna take the shot and then he tramps it across for the tap in out of nowhere. One of my favourite goals he was involved in was in 14/15 against Liverpool when he squared it over to RVP. Brilliant pass.
I honestly just love watching him play. He's magical at times. So unselfish too. There's been times where you think he's gonna take the shot and then he tramps it across for the tap in out of nowhere. One of my favourite goals he was involved in was in 14/15 against Liverpool when he squared it over to RVP. Brilliant pass.
Both of whom have only ever been used in that position infrequently.
My original point was that he's an average no 10 playing out of position.
He has started his career wide and played a lot more there than as a 10.
I think he does, but he is given positional freedom so he just moves about wherever he wants to.
They're not the same, Silva and Ozil don't have goals in them like Mata. It makes less sense to shift a guy who can get you 15 goals out wide.
On top of that those three have that extra pace/physicality that makes playing wide a possibility.
If you actually think thats what I was saying you're either being deliberately obtuse to win an argument, or you genuinely don't understand the concept of space and movement in football. When Mata comes inside, he draws players with him, which allows Valencia space to bomb down the wing and get a cross in. It also means there's another body in the box ready to recieve the return ball (see the Valencia cut-back that he controlled and then rolled into Rooney in the first half). That kind of positional freedom also means he can draw players away from the likes of Ibrahimovic and Rooney, or get into space himself in dangerous positions to receive a pass from one of them. And if you think that's also just a form of getting out of the way for better players, you're being naive. It's a very subtle skill, and not that many players can do it effectively. The reason you didn't see that enough last season had a lot to do with Van Gaal's rigid positioning of players, but he was doing plenty of it in his first year with us.
By the way: "his stats are good but he doesn't contribute enough" is a bad argument that doesn't make much sense. And I think if you think about it, you'll find there aren't many #10's in the world that score as many goals or are as good at finishing as he is. Case in point: last season he scored more goals than James Rodriguez, David Silva, Christian Eriksen, Philippe Coutinho, Ivan Rakitic, and a bunch of others I haven't thought of... and that was from the right wing. In fact, the only #10 in the world with stats that genuinely shit on Mata's is a bloke called Henrikh Mkhitaryan. Hang on, that name seems strangely familiar...
Aye, they're very different types of #10 alright. Though I think Mata might work well from RW in this set up given the tendency of both Ibra and Rooney to drop deep. While we're set up like that we need our RW and LW options to be able to cut inside and take up very forward positions in the way that Mata did for his goal this weekend. His off the ball running is one of his big strengths and probably the main reason he gets so many goals. Though obviously we'd probably be better off without that Ibra/Rooney combo in the first place.
The problem is if he constantly comes inside, which he does, it narrows the play and makes it far easier to defend against, hence why he's a no 10 and not a RW.
Your last para is silly, of course we all want to see the odd goal and assist from a forward facing player, but we also need a greater and wider contribution.
Both these points I'm sure you're aware of due to your extensive playing experience
It's more of your lack of football knowledge if you really believe what you are typing. It seems like all other posters understand the concept - which you obviously don't.
It doesn't make it easier to play against, as Valencia is left of beating one player with a lot of space to run into. Your whole post is silly - your first point was saying Mata making space for Valencia was ridiculous - then followed up with him getting goals and assists wasn't enough. Fair enough you want to criticize one of our players - but don't criticize them for the sake of it.
It's more of your lack of football knowledge if you really believe what you are typing. It seems like all other posters understand the concept - which you obviously don't.
Your whole post is silly - your first point was saying Mata making space for Valencia was ridiculous - then followed up with him getting goals and assists wasn't enough. Fair enough you want to criticize one of our players - but don't criticize them for the sake of it.
I'm not criticising him for the sake of it, I simply don't think he's the right player to play out wide, or that he's good enough for a team who wants to be winning league.
Not sure where you play/ed but if you were at full back, it'd be far easier to line up against Mata than Martial for example, as he gets it to feet and lays it off either backwards or inside. He hasn't got the strength to hold off his man and try and turn or the pace to get in behind. A player like martial has far more in his locker hence why he's better suited to playing out wide.
I understand your point but for me the opposite occurs. By Mata coming inside it congests the middle of the pitch and reduces our options. Yes there would be space for Valencia to run into but he's potentially doubled up by the opposition now. For me our wide players should stretch the play as that's what creates the space, cutting inside means our CMs have to thread passes through the middle which is far more difficult and much easier to defend against.
Possibly didn't explain my point on his stats but goals/assists can be misleading and players should be judged on a wider contribution than just both of those. For example, I don't believe Mata is a superior no 10 than any of this you have mentioned, even though he scored more last season.
If I was a betting man, Mata won't be our RW for much longer, but time will tell.
Ok firstly, if Mata's movement inside draws players with him, then Valencia won't be doubled up on will he? And Mata's movement inside allows (and indeed requires) our forwards to drift into other areas, which further stretches the opposition defence. These aren't revolutionary concepts, inverted wingers have been around for some time. The idea that wide players stretch defences is old-fashioned, there aren't that many wingers who do that anymore. Fullbacks provide the real width in modern football.
By the way, given that goals are the most valuable commodity in football (ie, they win you matches), suggesting that a player should be judged on their wider contribution (which shouldn't be an issue in Mata's case, given what I've already gone through), over their goal tally is just a bit nonsensical.
I said goals shouldn't be the only indicator a player should be judged on.
We're going round in circles and splitting hairs now, our opinion differs and if come the end of the season we win the league with Mata as our RW I'll happily hold my hand up and accept defeat.
Sure, he's not going to nutmeg and dribble past you, or hold the ball up for others to make their run. Mata becomes dangerous with his runs into space behind defenders who aren't even aware he's there, and it's those positions he gets a lot of his goals/assists from. As his stats show, it's no easier to defend against.
I thought he played well but I think he strays inside far to often, instead of bringing the ball inside he just runs inside and stays very narrow to Zlatan and makes him run deeper and away from him. It opens up the channel for Valencia but I am not sure if the team is sharp enough to exploit that yet.
I know he gets pumped off the ball a lot and quite easy but I am glad to see him fighting for it none the less. Last year he would go into challenges knowing he wouldn't even get near them. So fair play for sacking up and put it on the line. I think he will have a good season under Mourinho but I doubt he'll get much playing time on the right when Mihki is ready and/or Lingard returns.
But I trust Mourinho, we shall see what he does. Kudos to Mata.
I know he gets pumped off the ball a lot and quite easy but I am glad to see him fighting for it none the less. Last year he would go into challenges knowing he wouldn't even get near them. So fair play for sacking up and put it on the line. I think he will have a good season under Mourinho but I doubt he'll get much playing time on the right when Mihki is ready and/or Lingard returns.
But I trust Mourinho, we shall see what he does. Kudos to Mata.
It's obvious that we think differently - and while I agree that Mata could be upgraded - I just don't think the two points you made were correct. I think that having a winger like Mata brings balance to the team and helps Zlatan and Rooney as opposed to get in his way.
It's off topic, but I played as a winger, but started as a fullback. It would certainly make life a lot easier if the wingers stayed wide - as I would be left in two places if the winger cut in and the midfielders did not follow back (which happens a lot at amatuer level). The thing is, it has worked brilliantly last game - if it was Darmian or TFM playing right back, then I would agree, Mata isn't the best suited - but with Valencia as the fullback, I think Mata is the best fit at the moment (haven't seen enough of Miki to judge). Put it this way, if Mata was on the left, I am sure Shaw would have had a better game and would find more space in his attacks.
Shaw and Valencia are fullbacks for a reason though. The system should be designed to get the most out of the best players. It shouldn't be designed to make those two the main creative outlets. Valencia has made a good start but having watched the last couple of season nobody wants that final pass to be down to him. In the final third the creative responsibility should be on the technically best players like Mata and Martial.
Man Utd 2:0 Southampton
Some lovely touches and passes already today - must be fuming that he doesnt get a go at 10.
Head and shoulders above Rooney in that role
Head and shoulders above Rooney in that role
As he is my favourite player I am biased - but best player on the pitch so far imo, his passing is top class.
Making it damn hard for Jose to drop him if he keeps this form up *cough* rooney *cough*
Making it damn hard for Jose to drop him if he keeps this form up *cough* rooney *cough*
He basically is playing at 10, isn't he?
Doing well again today despite that sloppy pass that could have been costly. The only player who creates something. Seems to have found a really important tactical role already in José's system. He's involved in everything.
Only for Rooney's assist/cross, he's been our best playmaker. Playing well.
Think he's showing the speed of touch and class that should see him at 10 for us.
Depends on how good Mkhiki can be from the right though.
Depends on how good Mkhiki can be from the right though.
Gif of him sprinting? Looks funny as feck.
He's weak, he's small but knows how to ball!
He's playing with more purpose than he did under Van Gaal. Not sure how much of that was down to the tactics or his form, but the way he's playing now he should start every game. He's getting closer to the player everyone always thought he could be.
Needs to play centrally.
Looking good. Playing some lovely forward balls between Sotons lines.
I wish we could get away with putting this guy on roids. Would be such an immense player with some added physicality.
Fire in his belly.
Typical of Mata. Showing up in one or two moments, disappear for the rest of the minutes.
New Makelele?
Yeah I thought he looked real tidy tonight again. Never put a foot wrong. I think one misplaced pass but I think that was Fellaines fault as he was day dreaming.
This reminds me of Van Gaal's 76th right back subsitution in each game.
It's like some agenda posters have pre-prepared statements about certain players.
He did well today,worked incredibly hard ,even defensively .
What game have you been watching?
He is so good when he is on form, if Mourinho "continues" to like him then I think he'll do great with his direct style of football. Already different player than he was under van Gaal.
Great, great match from him imo, best player first half, very good second.
Mata vs Mikhi is very interesting. I really don't know who should start.
Great match from him again, i was a big doubter or him when he was here with Van Gaal but he's pulled it out the bag so far. It's obvious to see why Mkhytarian hasn't started yet because Mata has been too good to drop!
Let's hope for more of the same all season
Let's hope for more of the same all season
That pass on the volley in the first half was quality.
Still need more from him, and hopefully we'll get it.
Still need more from him, and hopefully we'll get it.
Well, that means Pogba, Zlatan and the rest also showed up only in one or 2 moments. What do you expect from Mata? For the ball to stick to his feet 90 minutes and score Messi-esque goals?
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