What a player this man is. We just look so much better with him around.
8
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 42
- Goals
- 10
- Assists
- 6
- Yellow cards
- 5
- Status
Obvious thing was obvious
Wait for another poster to call him luxury in a few days
Another day he would've scored as well with his trademark volley. Hope he'll start the next game.
If nothing else you always feel he cares and is giving everything, you need players with drive like that.
Was delighted he was brought on for Fellaini - I was fearing José was going to sub one of Martial/Mkhi for him. I hope he gets to start a game sometime soon with them both.
I don't know where Fellaini was playing, but it wasn't the Carrick position. He was frequently one of our furthest players forward, often forcing Pogba to drop back. Carrick never does this, and frankly Fellaini has never been able to play that position anyway, being terrible at passing, tackling and intercepting. Mata did essentially the exact same thing as Fellaini when he came on (drifted in and around the middle right and made late runs into the box) only much, much better.
If we have to play a player who occasionally gets in Pogba and Mikhi's way, it makes sense to play the one that's really good at football. The one time we actually did that was in a 4 goal win IIRC.
Herrera was obviously the deepest midfielder today, with Fellaini and Pogba ahead of him - the former being tasked with getting inside the box go support Zlatan.
Mata went nominally right and Mikhi inside when he came on. Then José took off a defender for Rashford, which meant Mata basically played as a winger.
Fellaini played quite forward, at times he was the most forward player. Mata came in and played in a similar position and made a world of difference. Great player to have in a team.
Was awesome when he came on, changed the game for us. Crazy he didn't start over Fellaini
Well take the Rashford sub away - which was an understandable Hail Mary - and that should've obviously been the line up to begin with. Mikhi and Mata can swap positions, allowing Pogba to exploit the space/defensive confusion...Fellaini does diddly squat in that set up. Zlatan is already tall. Why would he need an inferior big man to support him?
I posted a pass map that I saw on twitter (in the post match thread). Basically shows our passing that we played around fellaini the entire game and he didn't really have any impact. Really is no point in playing him in games like this where we'll have close to 70% possession. Offers nothing in it.
Agreed.
In fact, we lined up with Mata in Fellaini's exact position vs Leicester and we battered them with Mata being MOM.
Wouldn't you?
And vs Feyenord we did the same, with Mikhi in for Lingard (though also with Rooney and no Martial tbf) and won by the same margin. It's been the obvious attack line against small-mid clubs since about September. Though I don't think we've ever actually played our best version of it!*
Fellaini could plausibly be useful in some games, but he was never going to be as useful as Mata here.
Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of what Jose's done so far, but there's always something that fans find more obvious to see than managers. Like Fergie's Giggs & Scholes in a midfield two madness. Why are you blind to it!!!?
* genuine question, have we ever played Martial, Mata, Mikhi, Herrera, Pogba & Zlatan together from the start? And if not, how!?
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Should have started the game, did well when he came on.
Should start against teams like Boro, Sunderland, etc who will look to make it difficult to break them down. Having three floating behind Zlatan would make it easier for us to score.
Was glad to see him get the assist for the goal. I was getting annoyed though at him trying to dink the ball in the box from deeper out which was being headed away. Even on the goal, he tried that, but it got blocked and forced him to go further to the byline and then when he did it, it was harder for them to defend and left Pogba in position to score.
Was glad to see him get the assist for the goal. I was getting annoyed though at him trying to dink the ball in the box from deeper out which was being headed away. Even on the goal, he tried that, but it got blocked and forced him to go further to the byline and then when he did it, it was harder for them to defend and left Pogba in position to score.
We're struggling to find a setup that can accommodate everyone.
I feel like Mata has, in some way, been unfairly shelved even though he has been and is still one of the most productive players in the team and the EPL. There are few midfielders who actually have his G&A record. Yesterday, he was also an invaluable addition to the attack with a great shot on goal and of course the assist to Pogba for the winning goal.
Between Mkhi, Martial, Mata, Rooney, Lingard we have a lot of wide/#10s and not enough slots to play them in. Mata is arguably a starter, but if someone gets injured he's the best replacement. Over the medium 1-2 year outlook though, I feel like there's going to be a couple of very upset great players.
I feel like Mata has, in some way, been unfairly shelved even though he has been and is still one of the most productive players in the team and the EPL. There are few midfielders who actually have his G&A record. Yesterday, he was also an invaluable addition to the attack with a great shot on goal and of course the assist to Pogba for the winning goal.
Between Mkhi, Martial, Mata, Rooney, Lingard we have a lot of wide/#10s and not enough slots to play them in. Mata is arguably a starter, but if someone gets injured he's the best replacement. Over the medium 1-2 year outlook though, I feel like there's going to be a couple of very upset great players.
Nope we've not started with that 6. Mkhitaryan's exile coincided with our 4-2-3-1 phase and we'd shifted to 4-3-3 with Carrick instead of a 10 by the time he was back in the fold.
I'd argue that Carrick in that team for Mata is a better lineup. Zlatan doesn't really benefit from having Mata in behind him as he's not really a striker to feed off a second striker like that. I also think that having a striker ahead of a 10 doesn't create as much space in behind for Martial and Mkhitaryan to exploit. It's been best when Zlatan drops deep or shifts into a channel which pulls the opposition defense out of shape.
I would argue in a 4-3-3 we have 4 clear cms to choose from and it just depends who the opponent is. For mid table teams like yesterday it should be Herrera deep with Pogba and Mata in front maintaining possession and creating chances. Carrick on the bench to settle a game late if needed.
For big clubs Carrick deep with Pogba and Herrera forward and Mata on the bench if we need to chase things late.
All 4 great players who care about the club with great attitudes. Just a case of different horses for different courses imho.
For big clubs Carrick deep with Pogba and Herrera forward and Mata on the bench if we need to chase things late.
All 4 great players who care about the club with great attitudes. Just a case of different horses for different courses imho.
Carrick is absolutely essential against the smaller clubs. More so than the bigger clubs as his passing is so important in breaking down deep and resolute defensive units.
Against the bigger sides you actually get more opportunity to build quality attacks as they commit more players forward and actually come to play football. That's not to see the bigger teams are easier to attack against because obviously it's a balancing act but a player like Carrick picks out a pass in a fraction of a second and exploits any space left accidentally by a parked bus.
Don't see any reason to start other than what we started with yesterday as we had more than enough chances to win the game.
But I also think Mata is a quality player but with Zlatan up top we need speedy players around him so if Mata started (I'd be happy with this) we still need 2 quick players to compliment him and Zlatan.
But in fairness to Jose we looked good enough with the 433 without Mata to warrant carrying on without Mata as right now we are better without him in the team so he can hardly complain.
But I also think Mata is a quality player but with Zlatan up top we need speedy players around him so if Mata started (I'd be happy with this) we still need 2 quick players to compliment him and Zlatan.
But in fairness to Jose we looked good enough with the 433 without Mata to warrant carrying on without Mata as right now we are better without him in the team so he can hardly complain.
The thing is, he suffers without Carrick in the game too. If we are to play 4-2-3-1 with Herrera and Pogba in midfield there is a distinct lack of passing from deep.
Pogba has to drop back, pass, get up the pitch and try to create which creates an incredible amount of creative workload on just Pogba- all of our play is central to him. However, Herrera is the one who has to sit and hold and in honesty he's just not got the passing (or at least doesn't use it enough) to replicate what Carrick does for us.
That's fair enough because Carrick is incredibly unique, but what that means is there are very few passes central in the pitch and there are less passes that find Pogba and Mata higher up the pitch. That means that neither Pogba or Mata can play their best game because they're just not getting as much service as they could.
What this means is, we absolutely have to find a replacement for Carrick soon. Enough fannying about with the wrong player shoehorned there.
Pogba has to drop back, pass, get up the pitch and try to create which creates an incredible amount of creative workload on just Pogba- all of our play is central to him. However, Herrera is the one who has to sit and hold and in honesty he's just not got the passing (or at least doesn't use it enough) to replicate what Carrick does for us.
That's fair enough because Carrick is incredibly unique, but what that means is there are very few passes central in the pitch and there are less passes that find Pogba and Mata higher up the pitch. That means that neither Pogba or Mata can play their best game because they're just not getting as much service as they could.
What this means is, we absolutely have to find a replacement for Carrick soon. Enough fannying about with the wrong player shoehorned there.
Hmm maybe @Pexbo.
All I know is Carrick can not play every game at his age. Thus the question what games to sit him? You are right his forward passing is terrific, but as we saw yesterday we had plenty of passing with Mata, Pogba, and Herrera on. More importantly I think Carrick's defensive positioning is vital against those big clubs so I will stick with my premise that against the big boys Carrick in front of the back 4 is a far safer and more stable way to go.
But until Jose starts lining up the team like I am suggesting we will just have to keep debating the merits
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All I know is Carrick can not play every game at his age. Thus the question what games to sit him? You are right his forward passing is terrific, but as we saw yesterday we had plenty of passing with Mata, Pogba, and Herrera on. More importantly I think Carrick's defensive positioning is vital against those big clubs so I will stick with my premise that against the big boys Carrick in front of the back 4 is a far safer and more stable way to go.
But until Jose starts lining up the team like I am suggesting we will just have to keep debating the merits
.Yeah I agree. In the smaller games, rest Carrick and put Mata in midfield with Herrera holding. Mata provides the ability to dictate play and more creativity as he showed when he came in, while still playing in a midfield 3, while Herrera and Pogba are good enough to keep it tight at the back. Or just put Mkhitaryan in the midfield 3 and push mata in the front 3 and we get probably more solidity. But yeah, Carrick and Mata should rotate with each other depending on the opponent, while Martial, Mkhitaryan, Pogba, Herrera, Ibra are all automatic picks when fit. Same with Valencia and de gea of course. The rest of the defence and the left back are the only positions which aren't really set in stone, with Jones, Rojo, Smalling and Bailly all showing their worth on occasions while shaw, blind and darmian have all been very meh at left back. Bailly is first choice IMO when he doesn't have the AFCON coming, so when he's back he'll be in I'm sure. After that, it's who partners him and who goes left back. The way they've played, wouldn't surprise me to see Mourinho pick Rojo at left back and Jones next to Bailly as a way to get all 3 of them in, as those 3 and Valencia have been by far the best defenders under Mourinho.Hmm maybe @Pexbo.
All I know is Carrick can not play every game at his age. Thus the question what games to sit him? You are right his forward passing is terrific, but as we saw yesterday we had plenty of passing with Mata, Pogba, and Herrera on. More importantly I think Carrick's defensive positioning is vital against those big clubs so I will stick with my premise that against the big boys Carrick in front of the back 4 is a far safer and more stable way to go.
But until Jose starts lining up the team like I am suggesting we will just have to keep debating the merits
Does he look slightly improved physically? He's even dribbled past a couple of defenders lately, and doesn't look as apprehensive running at defenders anymore. His technique is sublime as always, and his ability to open up a defense with a killer pass remains his greatest attributes along with his smart moves inside the box, but I can't help feeling that he runs more and better - looks to have bulked up a little also.
West Ham 0:2 Man Utd
If I ever loved a man it would be Mata.
Always steps up when needed. Super finish.
Goal. Again.
When is Jose finally going to learn that this wonderful little man needs to be the first name on the teamsheet
When is Jose finally going to learn that this wonderful little man needs to be the first name on the teamsheet
Signature move for the goal. No one I'd rather have on the end of that pass ahead of him. Hard to keep those fast balls low.
Luxury player, we are much better without him in the starting XI /s.
He just delivers time and time again. Deserves to play much more.
Mata is such a great finisher in the box. You never expect him to miss.
I don't understand why we see so little of Mata. He always provides a very respectable amount of goals and assists.
Should be an impact substitute going forward.
Not a dig at Lingard but he should never start ahead of Mata.
When it Matas most.
When he comes on... it's only a Mata of time before he makes an impact.
All jokes aside, he just isn't better than Mhki, and he isn't great on the left. We can run a ten, and get the best out of Pogba so it puts him in a bad position. Having a Mata as a super sub isn't a bad thing for the team.
Mata always steps up when we need him to. Clutch player.
I bloody love Juan Mata.
- Status