No, but Juan Mata is a very specific type of player.
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Season Average Rating
- Appearances
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- Goals
- 10
- Assists
- 6
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No, but Juan Mata is a very specific type of player.
I suspect I'm wasting my time debating this with someone who dismisses the topic as 'utter bollocks'.
I also suspect you're not one for the terminology used to describe the modern game, its nuances or indeed the tactical shift that has taken place.
You were probably feeling vindicated by Leicester's title win given that they play 4-4-2 and a couple of old-school, bruising centre-halves. As if to dispel new-age 'meaningless drivel.'
ok
Your argument keeps changing. First you say he's a luxury because he doesn't fit into a Leicester type team. When it's pointed out he doesn't play for Leicester you claim Fergie would never have signed him. When it's pointed out Fergie signed a good number of No.10's who didn't run all that much you claim Mata is a player in a category of his own. Even though he's faster than Sheringham, runs more than Cantona and Yorke and much more productive than Kagawa.
It's fair enough to not rate him but I'd just put it like that. All this talk of him being a luxury isn't true at all.
I do rate him. He's a fantastic player, but far from essential.
Also, you do know Mourinho himself labelled Mata a 'luxury' player when he let him leave Stamford Bridge?
He has played for us 111 times and contributed to 73 goals, scored 28 and assisted 45.
bloody luxury......
bloody luxury......
Christ sake. That doesn't mean he isn't a luxury. Mata can create problems because of how he plays. His positioning, lack of defensive effort and penchant for being bullied off the ball require his teammates to be setup to account for those weaknesses and prevent the opposition from profiting.
If the team can cope with that, then fine. But if they can't... he's a luxury. Which has been the case for us the last couple of seasons.
The bit in bold is actually totally untrue. Mata is consistently one of our hardest working players.
Yep, Mourinho sold the luxury Mata in favour of the super essential Oscar. Pretty bad move on his part given that Oscar has been far worse than Mata ever since.
I'll take all those luxury goals from my attacking midfielder, thanks.
You can work hard and still be ineffective. Countless times already this season, Mata has gesticulated to teammates to help him cover the space. He doesn't appear comfortable or confident in fulfilling defensive duties. Unsurprisingly.
But to Mourinho and the way he approached it at Chelsea, Oscar was a better fit. More industrious and versatile.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
Delighted we kept him. A top player that gives us something that we don't otherwise have.
This Barney Ronay piece from back in LVG's first season sums up my thoughts on this "luxury" idea quite nicely:
"For one thing Mata’s defensive frailties are perhaps overplayed. He will never be a tackler but under Van Gaal he has made more interceptions per game than Cesc Fàbregas, Oscar, David Silva and Mesut Özil. Willian has made marginally more tackles (by 0.2 per game) and been dribbled past 0.3 times fewer. Against that, Mata’s passing accuracy is better and despite playing less than Willian he has been directly involved in twice as many goals. At which point you start to wonder exactly which of these two attacking midfielders is failing to do some vital part of his job."
https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2015/mar/23/juan-mata-manchester-united-louis-van-gaal
"For one thing Mata’s defensive frailties are perhaps overplayed. He will never be a tackler but under Van Gaal he has made more interceptions per game than Cesc Fàbregas, Oscar, David Silva and Mesut Özil. Willian has made marginally more tackles (by 0.2 per game) and been dribbled past 0.3 times fewer. Against that, Mata’s passing accuracy is better and despite playing less than Willian he has been directly involved in twice as many goals. At which point you start to wonder exactly which of these two attacking midfielders is failing to do some vital part of his job."
https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2015/mar/23/juan-mata-manchester-united-louis-van-gaal
And what do two flailing arms represent? Because to me, that suggests he'd like some assistance, because he's unsure of his own capability.
I used to be skeptical of Mata too, I felt that he was a bit slow and weak, and that he wasn't good enough in other respects to make up for it. Slowly but surely I've had to recognise that if he gets the minutes he always manages to get good numbers in terms of his offensive contribution, and he is anything but a lazy player in terms of defending from the front, and tracking back as well.
Anybody who reckons he's a liability at this point has an agenda.
Anybody who reckons he's a liability at this point has an agenda.
There aren't too many examples of Mourinho being wrong but you've picked one almost everybody agrees was a mistake.
I don't mind you saying he's a luxury, I mean I think you're wrong, but your reasoning is all over the place.
For instance you cite his lack of effort. When somebody points out that's statistically untrue you backtrack and claim yeah he works hard but not effectively.
I didn't say Mata works hard - I was speaking generally when I said 'you can work hard and still be ineffective'.
Perhaps I haven't articulated myself all that well.
Around in circles we go.
So you actually are saying he doesn't work hard, even though that's consistently proven to be untrue?
I'm saying there is a difference in working hard and looking busy.
Either you think he works hard or, as you said originally, you don't. There's no need to avoid the question, unless you know there's a lot of evidence to prove your opinion is wrong.
Mata less productive than others? What Ozil and de Bruyne? Cause I can't think of anyone else than better stats than them.
Just checking in to profess my love for Juan. He deserves a new contract just for this alone.
Not a huge Squawka fan, but I thought this was very interesting:
Mata was written off at Chelsea, was written off when LVG arrived and was written off again when Jose arrived but has battled hard to prove doubters wrong every time.
A scrappy, hard working player that I think has been a damn good player for us - with a very commendable goal record. Mata was my favourite premier league player when he was at Chelsea and I love seeing him make a success of his United career.
Anyone who doesn't at least have a soft spot for Mata has a heart of stone.
Mata was written off at Chelsea, was written off when LVG arrived and was written off again when Jose arrived but has battled hard to prove doubters wrong every time.
A scrappy, hard working player that I think has been a damn good player for us - with a very commendable goal record. Mata was my favourite premier league player when he was at Chelsea and I love seeing him make a success of his United career.
Anyone who doesn't at least have a soft spot for Mata has a heart of stone.
Those stats are insane
Delighted to hear he might be signing a new long term deal. He will be a legend here. My favourite player.
A little surprised he didn't bounce back off...Just checking in to profess my love for Juan. He deserves a new contract just for this alone.
Looks like he's finally going to get a good run in this position.
Brilliant. That shot wasn't as easy as he made it look. He was off balanced and the ball was on the bounce. He placed that perfectly into the corner.
"Mata at Chelsea was a good player. Mata at Manchester United is a very good player."
- Mourinho.
- Mourinho.
Goals and assists are a luxury, just bloody stats so stfu. Pace, now that's the real deal. Something something.
No disrespect to Juan but Leicester seemed like they were more focused on the Porto game a few days later. Mata is a wonderful player in the team but he does usually go missing in the biggest games against the biggest teams. I fully expect the knives to be out for him again in October if we get a bad result away to Liverpool or Chelsea and Juan has another stinker in a big game.......But for many games of the season (especially most home games) he will be a huge asset to have
Kinda odd criticism considering that with us he single handidly won us a game at Anfield, has had great games against both City and Arsenal at home, as well as Spurs away in the past... oh, and he scored in the FA Cup final.
I'm not saying he's amazing in all big games or anything, nor that he hasn't been a bit crap in some... but to say he "usually goes missing in the biggest games" simply isn't true.
My favourite Mata stat is that he's scored or assisted a goal in every Final he's played. Including the CL, the Europa, the Copa Del Rey, 2x FA Cups & the European Championships. He's basically only missing the World Cup for a full set.
Even under the general dirge of LVG, he racked up 3 goals & 3 assists against Liverpool, a goal and an assist against City, MOTM performances against Chelsea & Spurs away and a Cup final equaliser, just off the top of my head. Not to mention the crackers he scored against Arsenal (and us) whilst at Chelsea.
So yeah, the "not a big game player" mantle is complete horseshit. Statistically, he's possibly the biggest game player we have! Certainly one of...
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Those stats are false, mind.
As far as I'm concerned, he's won me over. I didn't rate him highly under Moyes nor under LVG but so far he's done his and has worked very hard. He's been productive so I can only appreciate.
This pleases me.
Still one of my favorite United player as well. I love this kind of player, e.g Carrick, Smalling, and Mata (and also Lingaard, to certain extent). It shows excellent mental strength, which is what I think United is about.
So we won easily given Leicester was more focused on Porto game. They decided to throw the game away, is that what you're saying'
Also how did you work that one up, him missing in big games? Luckily other posters proved you're wrong.
Anytime in the last 2 and a half seasons he has been here there has been a huge Juan love-in when he turns on the style but then a week later in a big game say away to Spurs or something then he's often completely anonymous and often the focus of blame and anger......but Jose will use him right......I think Jose will play Fellaini instead of Mata in the big away games to Liverpool and Chelsea in October......but Mata seems to be really motivated this season which can only be a good thing
All good but your ultimate example of him missing in a big game is away to Spurs?
Agree on everything else, if he'll work in a system like he did vs Leicester and be motivated, which he'll surely will be, he'll be a great asset.
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