Mata made a couple of passes tonight that served as a reminder of why he's managed to fight his way back into Van Gaal's starting XI. Not certain if we have many players at United who could pull those kind of through balls off. When we face compact teams who sit deep and don't try to play out Mata's true value will be clear.
8
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 54
- Goals
- 11
- Assists
- 11
- Yellow cards
- 7
- Red cards
- 1
- Status
That wasn't the point, the point was for every dribble out under pressure there is a whole myriad of dribbling back, not going at his man, holding it up. It wasn't about what he should have done, it is what he did in relation to the other video. It doesn't help when he has an obvious lack of pace and physical ability. It seems his legs have gone and he no longer values at least having a go at beating his man in most situations (unrelated to my earlier comments).
No surprise his assist came from the left side as he was a much better left sided wing forward for Chelsea than a right sided inside forward for United.
Eh? The defender is right on him, if he turns there - unless he pulls of some crazy loop-de-loop flick, he's getting tackled. So he - sensibly - holds up the ball, waiting for the overlap from Darmian, but see's how the defender has pulled round anticipating said pass, so retains possession by going back.
Basically, you've picked the wrong GIF to make your point.
Two moments of pure quality to fashion our two best chances. Having said that, I'm looking forward to having a natural wide-man out there in Pedro (hopefully), Mata cutting inside constantly really slows down the pace of our attacks.
Basically, you've picked the wrong point and thought that it is the one I was making. You're just picking at the crux of the matter when that is not what I am trying to say.
For every one piece of night tight work under pressure to move inside and open up play there are 10 times where he gets it and has to shuffle back and start the attack again.
If it is happening for a a whole match and there are 4/40 good pieces of play, there is probably a pretty glaring reason to either move the player away from there or give him a prod of confidence and allow him to actually take on his man. He looks completely shot of confidence in that regard. Tonight against Villa he was doing the same thing, slowing himself down to face up or back in the defender when under any kind of pressure and not taking his man on, even in the less risky situations that didn't call for hold up play.
Only seen the Depay chance so far, that's what I want to see from him more often, It should actually be the standard of an attacking midfielder at United.
Should have gotten 2 assists today, even in his first season with us he made some great through balls, when he has runners in front of him, I think theres only 2-3 other players in the Pl who can play such inch perfect through passes
He needs better movement in front of him, like today with our young pacey players, ie januzaj and depay
He needs better movement in front of him, like today with our young pacey players, ie januzaj and depay
You said, and I quote "there is a whole myriad of dribbling back, not going at his man, holding it up." - I have pointed out why, in the example you showed, he couldn't really do much else but go back - thus it was a decent bit of play from him that helped us retain possession. The point your making is that he does this often and it's poor/not good enough - and have used this GIF to prove your point - the problem is, this all this GIF proves is that Mata makes good decisions relative to whats going on around him.
You have failed to illustrate what Mata has done wrong in the clip you posted, and have continued to mask this by being vague and condescending.
Again. That is not the point I am trying to make. Read above - regarding the last point. If your right forward is doing that every time he gets the then I really fail to see how he could be creating chances at all. I mean, there is literally no point in a player who plays in the front line to always get the ball, run backwards and pass it to the CM/Defense. It kind of defeats the point of having a right sided forward.
I know you're not arguing that, but perhaps it will give you some perspective on what I am trying to get across.
Well then you have to pick a better scenario to demonstrate your point. If your right forward retains possession in that scenario everytime he gets it in that exact situation, then that's a good thing. Mata however receives the ball on the right in a variety of different ways, sometimes he could do something adventurous - but goes backwards instead in an attempt to regain possession (A clip you wanted to show) - sometimes he really has no other choice but to go backwards and keeps the ball - which is fine (the clip you showed) - and sometimes he gets the ball and plays an incisive / dangerous pass (like today) which is great and he should do more often.
Look, forget the clip. You're getting wrapped up in what is happening in the clip and you can't see what I inferred. (about it happening regularly, almost constantly halting attacks up) I'll slice some clips out of the game against Villa today to better demonstrate what I mean.
Should have had two assists today from two perfectly weighted through balls, but there were several occasions where he stopped our momentum dead as he can't go past a man, and he still gets hassled off the ball too easily.
He received the ball on the left and was 1 on 1 with the full back several times tonight but there's never any danger he's going to threaten their goal from this position. For the sake of the team we need a winger on both sides of the pitch so the opposition don't have the option of doubling up on only one of our wide players.
He needs another run as our #10. Created our only 2 chances tonight with his through balls.
He needs another run as our #10. Created our only 2 chances tonight with his through balls.
Don't want to take anything away from the good things he did today (great passes, should have had 3 assists), but why does he get himself into situations where he'll be muscled off the ball? He's obviously an intelligent player that understands space and movement, so why keep turning into danger where he knows he'll get tackled and knocked off the ball? Make a quick decision, turn if there's space and pass the ball. You don't see Schweinsteiger going shoulder to shoulder all the time when he has the ball for example.
Should've ended the match with two assists, still, got dispossessed two or three times today in dangerous situations but we're solid as hell at the back lately so maybe it's worth it.
He is going to lose possession during the course of the match that's what you get with a player like him and by now people should come to terms with it. He is our only creative spark in our team. If during any part of the match if look pleasing to the eye Mata is always involved.
He is the best player in our squad at this point IMO.
He is the best player in our squad at this point IMO.
With solid midfield behind him he should be allowed more freedom in the final third and he has it in him to be what Silva is for city, just need to break those shackles. As our team gels further I feel we are going to see the best of Mata this season.
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I want us to give him a run of games playing as a 10 because I believe that in our team he is the only one capable of striking the right balance between the need to create and the need to support the striker. Better yet if we manage to bring in Pedro as having Pedro and Depay coming through the wings at pace will stretch teams giving more space to Mata to pick the apart.
Really want to see this happen. With Morgan and Bastian/Carrick behind him we don't need a hard working #10. Games like today are tailor-made for him to start as #10.
He is best as a 10, simple as that. Van Gaal wont play him there though, at least not now.
Honestly, I find this to be a worry.
Honestly, I find this to be a worry.
As usual, Rooney and Mata quite far back. I think it's Mata's style though, he won't go to the wings but just cut in and pass. I still want him to play centrally if Pedro comes.
Shows his quality when he gets those few opportunities to drift inwards, would really love for him to have a spell behind the striker.
Would have been my MOTM if he was more careful with possession. Mixed performance but great ball for the goal.
Memphis' runs will help him here, whether he's a 10 or a RW.
You're thinking about this too simplistically. Mata doesn't take on a man because he would most likely waste possession. Most players would do that. Even Young, Januzaj and Memphis. Mata makes the same runs as they do when the opportunity arrives, cutting inside with the ball. Why would you expect a winger to beat his man down the flank only to show himself on his weaker foot. That's not how the team is set up.
Rooney has been the biggest weak link in our attack these two games. He's offered very little. He's not keeping the CBs busy by being in their face or making runs. He's not being dangerous on the ball. He's playing a bit like Falcao without the balance problems.
I agree that he needs a run at #10 but I don't think he will simply because he's better than our other players in the wing back position. The left backs don't know what to do with him when they aren't already marking him when he gets the ball.
You're basically saying our right forward doesn't try to create chances and use his ability because he might give away the ball? If this is the case then there is absolutely no point in playing him on the right hand side.
He had a run at #10 last season and he showed that he was woefully off the pace and lacked the incisiveness to link up play with midfield. Basically, to be blunt it is pretty obvious his legs are gone and he's adopted a cant win, don't try mentality and for what it is worth Van Gaal is happy to let one of his wing players be nothing more than a deep ball recycler and offer next to nothing up front.
I don't know, but that doesn't really sit well for me. All the shit Rooney is getting and he in my eyes is basically playing the 9 and the right wing forward role all on his own. But that is just my opinion of course.
You are really saying that Rooney playing the right wing role and #9 all by himself. For the last 2 games Rooney has not been able to play his primary role to any good affect.
Forget about 2 roles.
No I wasn't saying that at all. Not trying to dribble past a player doesn't mean he doesn't create chances. He created more chances than anyone in that game.
Mata got a run in a 3-5-2 system with two forwards that didn't play well together or well overall. The whole team was a mess.
Rooney's getting flack because he's been our poorest attacking player. Your opinion is that he's playing forward and right wing? How do you figure? He's not close to playing like a winger. He's been fairly static and lackluster.
Yeah that is a fair point. I should have mentioned it.
Basically, he's getting no support on the right hand side at all. In both games Mata's main position was nearer to the half way line than the box. Right now, Rooney is operating as a player who plays between the CB's and creates space for his wide players. One wide player on the right is not getting the ball and moving into the space created, the other is running into the corner and then turning out to try and play a ball across goal.
When Mata is not forward, Rooney's go to move is to move out to the right hand side to get free and get on the ball. If you look at Rooney's map he has a lot of touches on the right hand side. That is pretty much how he's been playing in the last two games. Forgetting the worlds glowing prejudice against Rooney, he's being deployed in this role. Mata is being deployed in the right forward role and his job is to get the ball, face up and either come inside or link up his fullback down the right hand side.
He pretty clearly isn't doing any of those at all. His little piece of excellent play came from being broken on the left hand side and spotting a run from Adnan (that he is never in a position to spot when playing on the left inside out with his back to goal and space) and played the ball in.
Personally, he's always been a left sided forward or wing forward playing face up in my view and this right forward role isn't working. He's lost a lot of confidence in his ability to put pressure on his fullback and that is almost the entire premise of how the front three operate. (well, Juan's part anyway) It is really causing a mess that he is being stuck playing so deep.
Just looking at the stats;
Mata to Rooney, 6 passes.
Depay to Rooney, 7 passes.
4 of those Mata passes were out to the right wing where Rooney received.
1 of the passes from Depay to Rooney was only out to the wing where he received.
There is something in this Juan Mata role that isn't right. I didn't mean to bring Rooney into it specifically considering the current hate train going on but it is more about how the front three synergize and there is absolutely no chemistry between any of them at all. Mata in my opinion the worst of them.
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That's the thing. He isn't operating between the CB's. He's not causing them problems. He's supposed to do that but he isn't. Mata is doing his job. He's covering at the back, he's creating chances. He distributes the ball well and he actually tries through balls. I'm not sure you understand at all what his job his. You can't look at how Young plays on the left and think that's what Mata is supposed to do. Thank feck he isn't like Young. Mata is different. He's covering a position that isn't normally his and he's doing a better job of it than those who actually make a living of playing there.
I've criticised him a fair bit lately but will always give credit where credit is due and he was by far our best attacker today. Was nice to finally see some neat through balls by the little fella, something which the lack of recently was one of the main reasons I gave him flack. This is what he should be doing on a consistent basis and I don't care if that comes at the cost of losing the ball a bit more which he was also guilty of today. Actually love to see players prove me wrong(in a good way). As for Rooney..
I really don't understand why Mata is played out wide. Just doesn't have the pace to be a wide player. Different story as a No10 though.
Some of his passing yesterday was exquisite. I love watching him play.
Provide the only two moments of quality but he was also guilty of giving the ball away too often and in bad areas and defensively he was poor and left darmian exposed.
How come he isn't getting any praise for his defending?
It's just two games though, but he has won lot of balls for a "luxury" player people like to call him. I've noticed he has won lot of balls during these two games, and checked the stats, he is fifth in the team by tackles made(both Smalling and Blind ahead of him are on 2.5 per game, same as Mata, so you could say he is actually third). Also third in the team by interceptions made, 3 per game, only Schneiderlin and Smalling are ahead of him there.
Again, I know it's just two games, but he was actually very good defensively in pretty much entire second half of last season too, ever since van Gaal moved him wide. Considering how much slack he got for that since he arrived at United he definitely deserves praise for improving in that department.
It's just two games though, but he has won lot of balls for a "luxury" player people like to call him. I've noticed he has won lot of balls during these two games, and checked the stats, he is fifth in the team by tackles made(both Smalling and Blind ahead of him are on 2.5 per game, same as Mata, so you could say he is actually third). Also third in the team by interceptions made, 3 per game, only Schneiderlin and Smalling are ahead of him there.
Again, I know it's just two games, but he was actually very good defensively in pretty much entire second half of last season too, ever since van Gaal moved him wide. Considering how much slack he got for that since he arrived at United he definitely deserves praise for improving in that department.
Even Messi would struggle assisting Rooney as a number 10. He is hopeless. Until we get a proper striker in I think our attackers are going to struggle creating chances.
Eventually I hope he plays a run of games in the middle as he is less of a threat out wide. Talented player that he is.
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