Think that Mou shattered Mata's confidence and he hasn't been the same palyer since his time as a regular starter for Chelsea. The fact that he isn't confident about his place in United's team doesn't help him one bit. He isn't playing well even thouhg statistically he hasn't been much worse than Rooney and RvP since the start of the calendar year. The thing with him is that he, unlike our forwards, is yet to enter his peak years. By contrast, RvP and Rooney have peaked and the same may be true about Falcao. I wouldn't be wise to ship him out.
8
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 35
- Goals
- 10
- Assists
- 4
- Yellow cards
- 2
- Status
@Mad Winger your obsession with bringing Kagawa into every discussion despite him being gone is annoying, so stop, now.
In a team who look to really dominate possession (which we have in recent years), he's no more useful than Rooney.
You want a dictator, and he isn't one.
Great for a system like Dortmund's though.
Its the stereotype. Rooney has played as a striker for most of his career (although he hasn't) so he can't play as a number 10. Mata, on the other hand, must be doing a better job because he's played as a number 10 for quite a while. Certainly not what I've been seeing.
It's difficult to not bring him into the discussion now that Mata isn't performing, though. It's only been a couple of months since Kagawa left, after all. I'm one of the posters who considered it a mistake to let him go, seen from a purely United perspective.
Kagawa did nothing during his time at United to prove he deserved to stay at the club, Mata is following the same road. Wayne Rooney continues to be our best number ten and for now also our best striker.
While Dortmund primarily is a counter-attacking team, they tend to dominate posssession against the weaker teams who park the buss. Kagawa hasn't looked limited at all for Dortmund this season against teams that lie deep. In fact, last game it was his agression and interepting that eventually lead to Dortmund's only goal.
Mata's only played a couple games this season. Kagawa had chances and was poor. People gave him chances and was patient with him. He's a talented player but bringing him up when he was a clear failure is just desperate.
Will. You. Ever. Shut. The. Fuck. Up. About. Kagawa?
It's beyond frigging tiresome even in the thread dedicated to him but this is blatantly the wrong thread for your pathetic obsession anyway...
Completely different style of play. And still fast paced.
He's not in there to dictate, and it suits him.
He's no better at dictating play than Rooney. Neither is Mata. And that's what we've needed.
Agenda posting is not allowed.
well nobody else has so I'm sure you'll manage.
otherwise I'll just thread ban you every time you mention him outside of his own thread.
Might be a little too late for that.
I warned him, which took him over the edge. Short break, harsh but fun.
Shouldn't he be renamed 'Mad Kagawa'?
No.
I'd like to point out that even at my worst I was nowhere near that bad (Nani-wise).
hmmm.
yeah me too with Berby
Anyway, back on topic "Why can't the little man find his magic?"
You're missing my point, though. When everyone was fit, Kagawa and Mata were played out of position for Rooney, who did a very good job playing behind Van Persie, going on to win our 20th title with ease in Fergie's last season.
Again, under Moyes, Mata only played number 10 when Rooney or Van Persie were injured. Altogether, last he season Mata played a total of 6 times as a number 10 and 7 games out wide.
Cardiff - Mata number 10 - Rooney injured
Stoke - Mata wide
Fulham - Mata wide
Arsenal - Mata wide
Crystal Palace - Mata wide
West Brom - Mata wide
Liverpool - Mata wide
West Ham - Mata number 10 - Van Persie injured
Man City - Mata wide
Villa - Mata number 10 - Van Persie injured
Newcastle - Mata number 10 - Rooney and Van Persie injured
Everton - Mata number 10 - Van Persie injured.
Norwich - Didn't start
Sunderland - Number 10 - Rooney injured.
Hull - Didn't start
Southampton - Centre midfield.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/teams/manchester-united/results
A little too harsh? This isn't RAWK, I hope.
Be quiet.
Ah here, I told you that in confid.. oh wait.
Quite astonishing really, the lengths some people will go to defend someone who really wasn't all that and derail different threads to subject us to his stance on the matter.
Anyway, onto Mata. It's quite shocking how he's gone from the player he was at Chelsea to the player we see playing before our eyes at United. I was a big admirer of his at Chelsea and I still think he can play a role here and somewhat recapture his pre-Jose form. It's not like he's entering his thirties and a drop-off is expected - like with RvP for instance - so the player he once was hasn't simply vanished. His deficiencies as a #10 are really coming to the surface however and he looks less suitable for the role than Rooney and that's not just from a defensive standpoint either.
Along with van Persie, I don't see much future for him here and if he doesn't want to accept a squad role at a Chelsea team that was better than our current team, I don't see him accepting one here either unfortunately.
Anyway, onto Mata. It's quite shocking how he's gone from the player he was at Chelsea to the player we see playing before our eyes at United. I was a big admirer of his at Chelsea and I still think he can play a role here and somewhat recapture his pre-Jose form. It's not like he's entering his thirties and a drop-off is expected - like with RvP for instance - so the player he once was hasn't simply vanished. His deficiencies as a #10 are really coming to the surface however and he looks less suitable for the role than Rooney and that's not just from a defensive standpoint either.
Along with van Persie, I don't see much future for him here and if he doesn't want to accept a squad role at a Chelsea team that was better than our current team, I don't see him accepting one here either unfortunately.
You couldn't be more wrong.
Mata is so likeable, but he's slow, weak, a liability defensively and doesn't get involved enough. He had a nice assist against Everton but for the most part he isn't pulling any strings and his passing is more Cleverley than Silva. Seriously, what happened to his passing? It used to be a lot more creative. Now it feels like everytime he gets the ball he lays it off to a midfielder or defender and disappears into a sea of opposition players. He's had a knack for popping up and scoring goals but other than that he's not contributing enough.
I really really want him to do well with us but he's starting to look like a Veron kind of acquisition.
I really really want him to do well with us but he's starting to look like a Veron kind of acquisition.
Maddening. Mata has obvious skills-yet he also has some weaknesses that seem to get exposed. Although it doesn't happen frequently, seeing him getting knocked off of the ball is not a pretty picture. And, his defensive work isn't great, which makes a deeper MF role for him problemmatic.
So-I guess the most forward part of the diamond is his best role-but I can't recall too many killer passes to a runner. When he gets the ball the tempo just seems to stop, and he just lays a pass to the side. Maybe it's just a matter of getting guys on the same page. But, however much Mata improves as a playmaker, I think we can expect very little from him tracking back-which creates need to play another DM in the diamond.
So-I guess the most forward part of the diamond is his best role-but I can't recall too many killer passes to a runner. When he gets the ball the tempo just seems to stop, and he just lays a pass to the side. Maybe it's just a matter of getting guys on the same page. But, however much Mata improves as a playmaker, I think we can expect very little from him tracking back-which creates need to play another DM in the diamond.
Yeah. Too many goals being scored. We don't need none of that shit. Conceding is where it's at.
Best banning in caf history. He's absolutely stark raving mental.
First of all Chelsea didn't rip us off, they didn't sell us a player who is considered deadwood by any means. Everyone knows how Mourinho's teams play on the pitch. They defend very deep, leaving no breathing space in between the lines and they are very rigid which means that they can not afford players who can't do their share of defending because that could lead to defenders drifting out of position and the whole team losing its defensive balance. It's true that Mourinho didn't have a place for Mata in his plans but he didn't want to sell him to a rival club. If it wasn't for FFP Chelsea probably wouldn't have sold him to us.
The same thing is happening at United. We can not afford to have a #10 in the starting lineup, no matter the formation, right now. Even if Silva came here he would also look rubbish. Doesn't Silva lose the ball, doesn't he make mistakes? Yes, he does. Does he even bother to track back and defend? No, he doesn't. In both cases Pellegrini doesn't give a flying rat's arse because he can protect him with two massive CMs playing behind him and with an incredible CB pairing that doesn't allow anything or anyone to get past them. Only in CL matches against sides who can defend effectively and can keep the ball City face serious problems.
Mata is good when he receives the ball in the final third and has teammates around him making themselves available for a pass. When you can't commit enough players forward because you know that if you lose the ball your opponent can cut through your midfield like a knife cuts through butter, Mata becomes anonymous. Asking him to drop in deeper areas won't work either because if Mata could operate in those areas Jose would have kept him in the team, he would have bought someone like Vidal, instead of Fabregas, and he would be playing now the way he did at Inter with Sneijder.
The same thing is happening at United. We can not afford to have a #10 in the starting lineup, no matter the formation, right now. Even if Silva came here he would also look rubbish. Doesn't Silva lose the ball, doesn't he make mistakes? Yes, he does. Does he even bother to track back and defend? No, he doesn't. In both cases Pellegrini doesn't give a flying rat's arse because he can protect him with two massive CMs playing behind him and with an incredible CB pairing that doesn't allow anything or anyone to get past them. Only in CL matches against sides who can defend effectively and can keep the ball City face serious problems.
Mata is good when he receives the ball in the final third and has teammates around him making themselves available for a pass. When you can't commit enough players forward because you know that if you lose the ball your opponent can cut through your midfield like a knife cuts through butter, Mata becomes anonymous. Asking him to drop in deeper areas won't work either because if Mata could operate in those areas Jose would have kept him in the team, he would have bought someone like Vidal, instead of Fabregas, and he would be playing now the way he did at Inter with Sneijder.
Seems to be happening fairly frequently at the moment, in the sense that 1-2 times per match (I remember 2 from yesterday but could have been more) in the positions it's been happening to him is completely unacceptable.
It's one thing to lose possession because you've been over ambitious around the oppo's penalty box, but it happens to him when he has his back to goal near our half way line, with only the back four deeper.
It led to a goal against Leicester; didn't lead to anything yesterday but both times I remember it happening it led to a dangerous situation.
As you say, it's not like he does enough defensively (or creatively, lately) to make up for errors like this, so he needs to cut it the feck out.
Wonder will he start against Chelsea... Probably has to, especially if di Maria is injured.
Right-that's my perception too. Not every time-but enough to be noticeable and always seems to lead to trouble.
Reminds me of the bit in Annie Hall. Diane Keaton and Woody Allen are shown talking to their respective therapists. Each is asked how many times a week they sleep together. Woody Allen says, hardly ever-3 times a week. Diane Keaton says, constantly: 3 times a week.
Hah. Then I'm with Diane on this one, it's constant!
Sorry, but I believe Silva's a different type of player, and wouldn't look rubbish all.
Most of the weaknesses that cause Mata to look so average aren't there with Silva.
Also I don't get the bit in bold.
We have no problems committing men forward. In fact, if anything, too many of our players are too high, leaving Blind with a huge gap ahead of him.
Mata's problem is that he can't dribble, can't beat a man, can't shield the ball, can't dictate play, is often too focused on getting into the box, and when he drops deep - he plays it safe.
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You know what I mean. We have enough players who can score goals in the face of Di Maria, Rooney, RVP, Falcao and even Herrera. We need a creative player who can control the tempo of the game and create chances for our players to score, we don't need another striker. What's so hard to get about that? We basically play with no creativity at the moment besides Di Maria's brilliance.
Also,
at my title.Veron all over again mates. Great player, wrong team/style. He'll be sold in the summer.
I also believe that Silva is a better player but City are designed to get the best out of him while we don't (or can't) use tactics to help Mata at all. Forget the PL for a moment and think about Spain, where Silva isn't the focal point when playing, or City in the CL facing teams that have a quality defense and aren't embarrassed to defend very deep, behind the penalty spot some times. Can you mention two or three of those games when Silva has shined on the pitch? Has he been excellent against Mourinho's tactics?
As for the second part you mention, i should have made it more clear. Yes, we try to commit players forward but these players have only the freedom of movement their starting positions allow them to have. They don't try to overload the side where the ball is played, they don't swap positions to trouble the defenders and create pockets of space in the final third and they are not trying to play close to each other which results in us being easy to defend in tight spaces. The fear of losing our defensive shape when out of possession seems to be overwhelming. Compare that with the freedom of movement City's creative players enjoy in the attacking third.
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