I think there's a pretty clear gulf in their style, they're really not similar at all.
Mata will always provider better numbers (goals/assists) but if you want someone to run a game then it's Silva all day long.
8
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 35
- Goals
- 10
- Assists
- 4
- Yellow cards
- 2
- Status
Mata will always provider better numbers (goals/assists) but if you want someone to run a game then it's Silva all day long.
Let me correct myself then, Rooney is currently better at playing behind 2 strikers than Mata.
I think that would be the best option with us buying a new CM of course.
As for now, when Rooney returns we should play like you said with Rooney up front. RVP isnt in particulary good form and I wonder how long will LVG stick with him in the starting lineup.
You are right about that, but it's not a surprise, Rooney is a better player. It's not the place but Rooney is underrated, people judge him on the base of his tremendous above World Class potential, and refuse to acknowledge the fact that he is a world class player even when underachieving.
This - I'd rather see Mata behind Rooney Falcao - RvP isn't really earning his keep - 2 goals and zero assists despite playing most games and almsot all of those games w/o being subbed isn't great.
Good article showing how unlucky Mata's been:
http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896...hester-united?CMPID=TWUK_141007_MasterfulMata
http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896...hester-united?CMPID=TWUK_141007_MasterfulMata
Mata is a great guy but he's not shown his Chelsea form at United, I really won't be surprised if he's sold next summer.
No it isn't.
They're pretty similar: Both want to get up close to their team-mates, whereas Silva can bring others into play without them needing to be close by - he can carry the ball to his team-mates.
Both play at their best with fewer touches, and in and around the box - pass it off and move forwards towards goal, which is not what Silva's about at all.
Both are very much instinctive players, and not dictators. Both lack the patience of Silva, neither can dribble, shield or hold the ball like Silva. Both are pretty much second-strikers.
If either are played in a slow system and asked to dictate like Silva, they end up passing backwards and completely slowing the game down. They are then unable to utilise their strengths (getting close to goal and using their striker's instincts) and become accurate but safe passers who offer the team hardly anything.
The exact problems we had with Kagawa are the same ones we're having with Mata:
Both are being asked to play in a system that is much too slow and possession based for them to thrive in.
No coincidence that one of Kagawa's better performances for United came last year in the 5-0 away to Leverkeusen - a match that saw us move the ball from back to front quickly, against a defence that wasn't camped deep in their own half.
Even for his hat-trick against Norwich - two of those goals were scored as a result of one-touch stuff, moving the ball forward quickly into open space, with Kagawa barely touching the ball before finishing the move off.
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Mata is fantastic. People need to chill. He'll show his quality soon. Mugs or players who aren't good in the PL don't score 20 goals and get 35 assists in a season. I remember when he was playing for Chelsea we'd all shit ourselves when he got within 30 yards of goal.
Nobody's claiming he isn't good. He's great technically, and very productive.
It's just that the system and style we seem to be moving towards seems so far away from the system that Mata (and Kagawa also) thrived in previously.
He'll still hit some decent numbers because he has that striker's instinct, but it appears we're moving towards a style of play that pens the opposition back and reduces the space to play within, and that really requires a dictator of play, who can shield the ball and hold it in tight areas, and generally dictate the game patiently. Whereas Mata is (as he did at Chelsea) usually looking to release it and move forward to score a goal.
That works for a team who invite the opposition out and move the ball quickly into that created space, but (a) Mata does little off the ball, and (b) that's not how we're looking to play by the looks of it anyway.
You can't doubt his past achievements and he clearly was one of the best EPL players - but you do wonder what happened in the last 2 years or so and what he needs to find that kind of form again
Hes a quality but despite rooney not being imo the ideal number 10 for us given his inconstancies with the technical bits, at least he always demands the ball. You need that from your numher 10 particularly if youre playing 2 uptop. Mata seems to make it three strikers and that's too many. He needs to drop deep and get in the ball more. His statistics are excellent because he's a fine player. But we need him to be a bit different.
Creativity is not an issue as his assist numbers are pretty good. Outside of stats, his vision to spot passes and passing range along with the willingness and ability to play difficult passes isn't an issue with him. His main issues are his positioning and movement, and the fact that he's weak on the ball.
His creative abilities are suppressed by his willingness to play more like a forward than like a midfielder. Too often, he positions himself high up the pitch and often looks to get into goalscoring positions rather than get into positions to receive a pass and dictate play. Not only that, but he doesn't have the energy levels to constantly move around, so he's more static when compared to Rooney or Januzaj. Finally, he's weak on the ball, so he can easily be shoved off when facing physical challenges.
In terms of creativity itself, Mata has no issues. In terms of his playing style and physical limitations suppressing his creativity, this is a big issue for him and how he can fit into this team.
Found that really interesting. Love reading things like that. In Mata's defence there seems to be a few times (like the first illustration) where his runs open quite a bit of space between the lines in the attacking third because his run draws the midfielder away - that is a good thing, no? Obviously he seems to make the same sort of movements often though and so it does become predictable and slow us up.
Not really, to be honest.
That's an example of him attempting to dictate play, but he's essentially moving himself to an area of the pitch where he can't be closed down. Then usually when he receives it he plays a safe pass, and wont even attempt to carry the ball near to that congested area.
What you want from your no.10 is somebody who will remain in and around those congested central areas (clever movement in those areas is hell for opposition players), hold the ball under pressure, carry it without needing space, and play passes here, there and everywhere - controlling the play.
With Mata, it's one or the other:
- He either plays his natural game higher up the pitch (pretty much as a second striker) making few touches (to prevent being tackled/closed down), before sprinting up field for a cut-back quick finish. And this style really requires moving the ball from front to back quickly, to create space to run into.
- Or he attempts to drop deep, but ends up dropping into harmless areas, slows things down and plays safe passes.
But he never does the precise job that's required. And it's even less ideal with two up top.
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Not a bad article. Pretty much reinforces what a lot have been saying about his style of play, movement without the ball, and limitations in terms of holding the ball under pressure.
Fair enough. Just because he is the no.10 doesn't mean everything has to be played through him though surely? I mean, in the first one he opens space, couldn't Rooney drop in there and momentarily take up Mata's position and turn and play to RvP/Falcao/whoever the remaining striker is on the shoulder of the defender? Obviously though that would not be Mata dictating the play which is what you said he was doing. Blackett would have to ignore Mata in that scenario.
It looks to me like he wanted the ball (but in a comfortable area), and if he got it, he was going to play it simple to the left back.
An example of him trying to come deep and get involved, but really not doing much. If you do that every time you receive the ball with someone near you, it adds very little.
Whereas you'd probably find Silva where that circle is, and he'd probably turn and carry the ball forwards before looking for one of the full backs higher up the pitch for a first time cross. And Silva can do this because he has that ability to shake off physical duels, turn under pressure and hold the ball when surrounded.
No, it doesn't mean everything needs to go through him, but playing as an effective no.10 in a possession team requires that ability to receive and hold the ball in those central congested areas.
Don't think he was that bad against Everton.
He wasn't, he just didn't make enough of an impact to get in ahead of rooney. Positions like center back for United, players can probably get by with being decent. Behind the strikers they have to be world class to get in the team and play really well pretty much, because of the competition.
Rooney has had games like this before though. Mata deserves another couple chances before we can say definitely that Rooney should be playing. For the record, I was saying Rooney was fine behind the two strikers when people were itching to get Mata in there. They are both good players and some people are expecting too much from them at once. We are scoring goals and are improving.
Oh I know, but the thing is rooney always offers the defensive side of things which mata doesn't. It's great to have both as options though.
True. The thing is we don't have dynamic players bar Di Maria, I would rather play one striker so we could have a bit more control and stability in midfield. I still feel we are one more mobile cm and another player in the final third who can be direct and beat players one on one from being a top team.
I prefer the modern 10, their presence is more noticeable over 90 minutes than someone like mata, i would rather play januzaj because of Adnan's mentally out there. He may not have the bets game but he will demand the ball take players on and make things happen, Mata is too often happy to watch the game go by him. I think unless he is the one setting the tempo then he struggles when the game gets quicker and you have less time on the ball .
He wasn't particularly bad as such in that it wasn't an awful performance - he just wasn't overly great either, and didn't have as much of an impact as you'd ideally hope he would have.
The thing is, he still manages to produce an assist or a goal in most games he starts, even when struggling. Set up Di Maria's first vs Everton. That's the sign of a top player.
Agree. Despite his performance he is very efficient statistically. However Rooney is also very much the same way. Often scores when not playing that well.
This is pretty much spot on.
Good article. This is what I said a few pages back:
I have to be consistent in my opinion and that means Mata deserves just as much blame as Rooney for playing the #10 role in a manner that causes structural problems for the team. I find it odd that those who criticised Rooney - and don't get me wrong, his positional discipline can be awful and he's not my ideal #10 - last season for his positioning and lack of creativity haven't taken the same stance towards a player who is just as bad positionally.
Both players obviously have their weaknesses, but one thing they do have in common is that they slow down play far too much and are guilty of moving backwards causing the team to get back into shape. However, currently Rooney is the better fit because, although he doesn't offer the same creativity as Mata, he's a better all-round player to have and suits the system better, IMO.
He needs to show a lot more than what he has done for us and fortunately for him, he has more chances to display his talent. He's a quality player, but we're not the Chelsea of 11/12 or 12/13 and Van Gaal isn't going to accommodate his style because it's not the best for the team.
The thing is Rooney is captain and has done it for us (getting us thirty to thirty five combined goals and assists for ten years) so he should be getting a bigger leeway when he has those sort of performances. Mata needs to step up and be the link the team needs or else...
Mata has also proven what he can do at Chelsea. Treat them the same.
You've answered yourself there, in the red of Manchester United he's been good but not so good to earn the ''special privileges''.
He's contributing goals and assists. He's a top class player. He isn't scared to try things for us and will improve. Rooney can have 2-3 bad games in a row because we know he will still come up with something and have a run where he is on fire. I know Mata will pop up with goals and assists. The same cannot be said for Kagawa, who also looked scared at times.
It's good we have both and they both deserve space for a bad game or two. I never understood why people wanted Rooney dropped for Mata when we were playing well with Wayne in the team. I also do not understand people wanting Mata instantly dropped after the Everton game.
For me he it's the acceptance of the fact that he is not the playmaker we need behind the two strikers, when he plays he looks like he wants to be another striker when we desperately need him to dominate thr ball and be the link between the strikers and the rest of the team. He'd be okay if we were playing with one striker but we are never going to that with the bug three around.
To me the team looks easy to defend against when it's only Di Maria that's providing the unpredictability and pace in the side, which is I think we'd be better served with having Rooney at the tip of the diamond and Januzaj forward with Falcao with the license to roam, in the Robben role. Makes us difficult to defend against when we have that different, unpredictable option in forward areas.
Agree. Don't understand folk. He's absolutely quality and classy player. He has his limitations but doesn't anyone. True world class player. His goal scoring means he also offers something that we've not had for a long time. People also forget he's not even been with us a full season as yet....
Hugs x
Where did that poll come from?
Haha I love it. Good stuff.
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