Also, Mata did have a couple of seasons where he performed better than Silva.
Like you say no shame in not being as good as Silva anyway, he's comfortable the best no.10 in the PL anyway.
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Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 35
- Goals
- 10
- Assists
- 4
- Yellow cards
- 2
- Status
Also, Mata did have a couple of seasons where he performed better than Silva.
Like you say no shame in not being as good as Silva anyway, he's comfortable the best no.10 in the PL anyway.
They probably were closer in quality back then but he argued with absolute certainty (as he is wont to do) that Mata was already the much better player and would continue to be so.
And it wasn't really meant as criticism or Mata. Was just having a wee daydream about what might have been if we'd followed through on our (alleged) interest and it was Silva playing on Sunday instead.
And it wasn't really meant as criticism or Mata. Was just having a wee daydream about what might have been if we'd followed through on our (alleged) interest and it was Silva playing on Sunday instead.
Eriksen's closer to that Silva style of dictator. I like him, but haven't seen loads of him at Tottenham. I don't know how consistent he is.
The absolute ideal would be Modric in a three man midfield. He'd pretty much do exactly what Silva does if played slightly higher up.
Obviously not an option though.
Hererra's got a great eye for a through ball. Wouldn't mind see him get a go at 10.
I'm not a fan. Too slow, he needs to much time on the ball and if a game is going quickly he is out of it, he looks lost a lot of the time and he isn't a fighter. I posted a few weeks back he is a player who will post up stats goals and assist while being rather non influential over 90 minutes and yesterday's game was another example of that. I don't like him or Rooney as our 10's but I would rate her have Rooney just due to the fact he is more industrious and more productive in terms of goals and assists. He's not up there with the truly world class 10's and playmakers in terms of ability and it shows.
I believe he's more like a classical #10 than a modern #10. The likes of Silva, Eriksen, Kagawa, Ozil, Cazorla, Wilshere, Fabregas, Oscar, etc. drop deep and drift out wide, always looking for the ball and trying to dictate the game. These sort of players have a strong influence on a team's tempo, pace, passing rhythm and range, etc. Mata, on the other hand, has rarely, if ever, dictated play. More often than not, he hovers in and around the final third, waiting for someone to supply him the ball so that he can do his work in the final third. This is a reason why he has excellent goals and assist statistics whilst not being the most influential player in our team as modern playmakers normally are.
Given that he's not that dynamic, he's always at his best when he has dynamic players around him. In Chelsea, for example, he had Hazard, Oscar, Drogba, Torres, and Ramires, all of whom offered good movement and dynamism, which allowed Mata the chance to do his thing.
He's not really a midfield playmaker nor is he a modern #10. He's more of a final third player, and he's at his best with dynamic players around him.
He's looked more like a second striker than an attacking midfielder in many ways, imo.
With two strikers ahead of him I might rather see a more creative player in his position.
But really my only complaint is that he losses the ball carelessly sometimes, he can be slow to react to defensive pressure. Or to apply defensive pressure.
I'd like to see Januzaj behind the strikers one game. Don't get me wrong, I like Mata, perhaps we demand a bit too much from him because of his price.
Creativity is not an issue with Mata. He's one of the most creative players in the world, IMO. His main issue, IMO, is that he's weak on the ball and not energetic enough to move around lots like several attacking midfielders do. Having said that, Mata's positioning is excellent. However, he doesn't really move around that much and drag the opposition around like many modern attacking midfielders do. Of course, his defensive weaknesses are very apparent, but I do agree with you over him struggling with defensive pressure and aggression from the opposition. This, I feel, is more down to his lack of dynamism and energy.
Comparing Mata to Januzaj, Januzaj is more dynamic and stronger on the ball than Mata. Januzaj moves around the pitch more than Mata, and he's also able to take on opponents, unlike Mata. Plus, he does have the quality and ability to be productive in the final third as seen in all levels of football.
Why is Mata compared to Silva? He is not as good, but others aren't either. Apart from Messi there's absolutely no No 10 in the world right now close to Silva's level. Very few - if any - might do it for a couple of games, but not over the whole season at the level Silva does. Only Iniesta at his best can match / better him but Iniesta hasn't been at his best for 18 months now.
When Barca played City at the Etihad last year, even with 10 men City Silva was the best player on the pitch bar Messi. The way he dominated the game on his own against the very best players can't be replicated at all by any other No 10 in the world, he is miles better in that role than any of Mata, Rooney, Oscar, Özil, Fabregas, Cazorla, Nasri or whoever!
When Barca played City at the Etihad last year, even with 10 men City Silva was the best player on the pitch bar Messi. The way he dominated the game on his own against the very best players can't be replicated at all by any other No 10 in the world, he is miles better in that role than any of Mata, Rooney, Oscar, Özil, Fabregas, Cazorla, Nasri or whoever!
Why? Based on what evidence? I'm excited as anybody by Januzaj's potential (and that's the key word right there,) but preferring him based on his very limited playing time in that position to Mata's (notwithstanding his somewhat indifferent start to the season,) is just madness. I can understand the preference for Rooney (not one I share, mind,) but Januzaj is as green as they come, and I would imagine is nowhere near ready to step into that position.
Exactly. It's like complaining that Di Maria isn't as good as Ronaldo. Mata hasn't exactly shone this season, but I'd say we're pretty spoiled for choice when he's our backup in that position.
I'm sensing too much animosity towards Mata.
Feast your eyes on this piece of beauty from an older thread posted by @Kill 'em all
Feast your eyes on this piece of beauty from an older thread posted by @Kill 'em all
I'm sensing too much animosity towards Mata.
Feast your eyes on this piece of beauty from an older thread posted by @Kill 'em all
What exactly are you showing us? Any professional player should be able to control a simple ball like that. Did you see him waste that chance in the box when Shaw played him in against Everton? He should've shot the ball with his right first time but he tried to put it on his left and he got easily dispossessed and the chance was gone. Same thing happened in the second half when Blackett played a beautiful pass to him on the edge of the 18. He cheaply lost possession again and he should've done better. Right now Rooney is playing better than him in that role.
It's simply a case of wanting who is not there, fans will never change. When Rooney plays there, we want Mata, when Mata plays there we want Rooney. Just because Mata isn't on Silva's level and because he didn't have a man of the match performance against Everton, suddenly he isn't good enough?
He is a top player, so is Rooney both have important roles to play this season, it's only October, we are still yet to see the best of them this season.
He is a top player, so is Rooney both have important roles to play this season, it's only October, we are still yet to see the best of them this season.
It wasn't a simple take by no means and not many professional players would have been able to do it as well as Mata who has terrific ball control. I don't think he was particularly good against Everton and he could have done better generally despite ending with an assist. What is annoying is how posters need to be extreme when it comes to judging Mata and Rooney. They have a good game and people start raving about them and when they have a decent/poor game, people start berating them and scrutinizing every single mistake. I could have come up with about 4-5 situations when RVP and Falcao made the same mistakes and poor choices whilst having a generally poor game but Mata and Rooney will always have to face excessive criticism/praise for some reason or another. It almost feels as though if you are for Rooney, you have to be against Mata and vice-versa at times in this forum which seems bizarre to me.
Mata for me generally is a better #10 than Rooney and I also think Rooney's skill-set is best utilized further up front as a second striker. However, on form basis and on general I would rather have Mata in the team ahead of RVP with Rooney and Falcao up front.
Some of us have maintained Rooney is a better player in that position when some were screaming for Mata and acting as if it's injustice for LVG to send him to the bench over Rooney. Granted Mata is a very good player, but in this current setup, Rooney works best for us. Mata will excel in a setup where there is two defensive midfielders hence, the work is cut out for him. Attacking wise, I question his positioning at times. Couple of times against everton, he was running in the same line as the strikers and when the crossed ball fell behind them, no one was there to hit it. A #10 shouldn't stand in line with strikers, he should have pulled back wait. It's simple things like these that Rooney seem to get.
Poor example - Mata scored in that same manner just a few games ago (the 1-1 draw) - it's how he's scored several goals for us since moving here January and picking one moment where his control was poor (he wasn't trying to switch feet he just didn't take enough sting off the cross) is silly.
He's not had a proper run of games and so was not in the best form vs Everton. The same way Rooney is rarely in good form when he doesn't play 3 or more game sin a row.
That said he does need to bulk up a bit more and learn to withstand hard tackles (like the one he lost the ball from vs Leicester) - he's very much like Kagawa in that sense.
Creativity is very much an issue with Mata, at least at United. If he was doing that part of his job then you could ignore the other flaws in his game or at least I would.
Surprisingly dismissive tone towards towards Mata, whose productivity has been absolutely fantastic since he moved to England. The biggest difference between the two, imo, is that Silva has played a relatively settled role, whereas Mata has been moved from pillar to post under different managers.
Silva's more adaptable than Mata, which is why he can still shine from a wide position drifting in. I think Mata needs to be the number 10 behind a single striker.
Don't quite get the general negativity surrounding Mata's Everton performance - he's been out of the side, which is never easy, but he came back in and got a good assist.
I do feel he was a luxury purchase, and we rarely play a system to get the best out of him, but didn't see anything in his performance against Everton that warrants negativity.
I agree. He is far too forward minded for our current formation. More often than not he is the one making the runs looking to get on the end of things than creating. He'll pass the ball to a teammate and start running forward instead of into a space where he could receive it back like a playmaker should. That wouldn't be as much of a problem if we were playing with a single striker, but when we already have two players looking to get on the end of things, another one is overkill and specially when Mata offers very little when we don't have the ball.
You make it sound like he was out for ages. He missed two games.
This is the point a lot of people are making; he's a stats player who doesn't contribute much to overall play and doesn't make our offensive play cutting-edge and creative the way players in the Silva, Kagawa, Eriksen, Sterling and Oscar do. They provide alot of tempo and are far more involved in build up play. If you go over all our games we've played so far, Mata always drops into line with our two forwards rather than dropping to help knit play and trying to find the telling ball.
Yeah, I agree with most of that. I think he's at his best as a second striker - i.e. behind a lone front man - when his defensive workload is reduced.
There's no doubt he was a luxury buy, but I don't think it's beyond the realms of possibility that LvG can coax more out of him off the ball.
However, not sure why Kagawa is listed - massively overhyped player, who contributed zilch when he played for us. At least Mata is prolific!
Kagawa's skillset and play style is far more similar to Silva's than Mata's is. When you compare the way Klopp sets up Dortmund and how van Gaal is shaping us, he would arguably have been a far better choice for number 10 because he thrives in an environment that we are currently creating.
It's really not. Kagawa is another one who's closer to a 2nd striker than an attacking midfielder. His best form came when he playing just off Lewandowski.
I know what you're saying. I was just making the point that despite that, he's still more similar to what we need than Mata. In any event, Mata's contribution to build up play leaves much to be desired.
There's not many (any?) number 10s who typically play behind two strikers so singling out Mata as someone who is at his best behind a lone striker is being a bit disingenuous IMO.
Agreed. There are variations in the way that the number 10 role is played. Our number 10 at the moment needs to be more of a playmaker, responsible for directing the game. We already have two strikers in the box. Kagawa at his peak was a player who would make the final through ball, or arrive late to score, very much the second striker type.
I disagree. He's as much a 2nd striker as Mata is except Mata is hell of a lot more productive.
Yep. Mata is a brilliant player but we needed someone in the mould of Silva who can dictate things on the pitch. At least we didn't end up with Ozil eh
Yup. Agreed.
That’s the point isn’t it? The way we play (2 strikers and Di Maria bombing forward) is not the best way to utilize Mata. Personally I don’t see him starting much unless we move to 2 man midfield (unlikely IMO).
I’m more concerned about Januzaj right now than Mata anyway.
Regarding a proper playmaker in Silva type, I’m a huge fan of Isco.
We don't need any more playmaker in the team
I think that LVG is (and should) targeting two more defenders and one dynamic midfilder
The fact is that the way we're going to play, probably a 4-3-3 gives Mata lesser and lesser time to show what he has
I like him very much but he's very unfortunate that we are not playing well. In a team that play higher (so run less from deep) is a joy to watch, but we are so weak and can keep the ball.
Now that we have Di Maria and Falcao, I really think that the focus is there to balance the team including them, and unfortunately not Mata.
I think we've got also an issue with Wazza and RVP, on the team so adding Mata to that is tough yeah
I think that LVG is (and should) targeting two more defenders and one dynamic midfilder
The fact is that the way we're going to play, probably a 4-3-3 gives Mata lesser and lesser time to show what he has
I like him very much but he's very unfortunate that we are not playing well. In a team that play higher (so run less from deep) is a joy to watch, but we are so weak and can keep the ball.
Now that we have Di Maria and Falcao, I really think that the focus is there to balance the team including them, and unfortunately not Mata.
I think we've got also an issue with Wazza and RVP, on the team so adding Mata to that is tough yeah
I haven't kept track who was crying about Mata being on the bench and who said Rooney is better as nr. 10 but it seems some have realised Rooney is better in that poisition for us right now. Its just hard for some posters to admit that since the hate for Rooney is always strong here.
Would be gutted if we sold him but right now it wouldnt surprise me, he is a good player but weather its our setup that doesnt suit him or he just isnt involved as he should be I dont know but right now it isnt working.
If we do sell him in January maybe with one more CM (which we should buy in Januarly earliest) we can move Herrera or Di Maria to nr. 10 or give Januzaj more chances.
I hope Mata will raise his game though.
Would be gutted if we sold him but right now it wouldnt surprise me, he is a good player but weather its our setup that doesnt suit him or he just isnt involved as he should be I dont know but right now it isnt working.
If we do sell him in January maybe with one more CM (which we should buy in Januarly earliest) we can move Herrera or Di Maria to nr. 10 or give Januzaj more chances.
I hope Mata will raise his game though.
Yeah, true. Also, the 2 strikers we are using aren't exactly that varied in terms of type of players or the runs they want to make. Many times both of them want to do the same thing.
Kagawa is even more limited and a 2nd striker than Mata if anything. Though he will give you better pressing and workrate probably.
Mata as #10 and Rooney as a striker seems the best combination right now for me with RVP on the bench.
Rooney and Mata link up well generally too and Rooney offers varied skillset to Falcao more compared to RVP. Plus Rooney is sort of best as a 9.5 anyway.
Get a feeling LVG wants Herrera or Di Maria or someone of that sort as #10 though. Someone who starts from deeper.
We don't play with a #10 but with 3 strikers, it was already the case in the 3-4-1-2 with Mata, Rooney is a better second striker than Mata and he is a better defender, but he isn't a better #10.
Ideally we need more of a Silva type than a Mata right now. I thought Mata had more passing/creativity in him, but right now he seems more interested than getting on the scoresheet.
I understand the point sort of but Don't see a massive difference in playing style of Silva and Mata tbh when both are at their best, settled and playing well.
Silva can carry the ball better, i guess hence is more flexible somewhat while Mata has better movement and awareness in the box.
Once Carrick comes back can see LVG trying Herrera or Di Maria as a #10 tbh.
Silva can carry the ball better, i guess hence is more flexible somewhat while Mata has better movement and awareness in the box.
Once Carrick comes back can see LVG trying Herrera or Di Maria as a #10 tbh.
I've said it before...but what a wonderful problem LVG now has, picking between Rooney, Mata, Falcao with Januzaj upcoming too!
Mata is quality! He didn't score against Everton but he got himself an assist. No need for any drama!
Mata is quality! He didn't score against Everton but he got himself an assist. No need for any drama!
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