You acknowledged that he wouldn't be playing in his position, yet you say it's direct competition. For me it isn't, if LvG wants to play 2 strikers and he prefers Rooney in no10 position then he's fighting with Wayne. Everything else means we're changing shape.
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Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 35
- Goals
- 10
- Assists
- 4
- Yellow cards
- 2
- Status
Not repeating what I've already said. Everyone else on here seems to understand that RVP and Mata are in direct competition. If you can't get your head around that fact then fair enough.
After Rooney's stupidity, Mata will get some game time over the next few weeks.
And if we play better with Mata than with Rooney?
We all know the outcome - Mata back on the bench!
At least we will see Mata behind RvP and Falcao in the next game now.
Three games with Mata as the 10 is fine by me... Will finally show LVG what he brings as the 10 with two tactically and positionally disciplined strikers in front of him. All this talk of him not showing enough defensively for a 10: did Kaka show such defensive work in a similar system at Milan? Of course not, they are both playmakers. They're job is to probe the opposition's defence, not fortify ours.
Spot on, same with Ozil/Silva.
It feels like this is a similar situation to the one Mata faced at Chelsea and it hasn't surprised me at all that Rooney has started the last two games for us. While Rooney isn't a better #10, his understanding is significantly better as he's more positionally disciplined. Didn't Van Gaal say something about Mata not impressing him in the role?
Mata is a very good player, but when it comes to systems like ours in which he has to press high and be expected to play as the link man in the middle, he'll come up short. I believe the following reasons are why Van Gaal has opted for Rooney in the past two games:
1) Mata struggles physically. Doesn't press well and does have the tendency of being "lazy", but this is a minor point as we're not challenging for the league.
2) Doesn't play like a #10 should. Doesn't possess the control and skill Silva and Özil have which allows them to play in tight spaces. Often finds himself moving laterally to try and find space but that results to blocking passing lanes. That's why you'll notice him
3) Poor under pressure - lacking the agility to turn - and doesn't shield the ball well hence he moves away from the middle to find space. Against Leicester he was pressured and did what he usually does in such situations - he panicked and didn't protect the ball.
Chelsea replaced Mata with Oscar and immediately they functioned better as a team, and not because Oscar is a better #10 but because he excelled in key areas of Mourinho's system. Rooney has come in and done better in the role, and again that isn't because he's a better #10.
Pretty sure he's toast in January/summer, but hopefully he impresses during Rooney's three-game absence. Don't be surprised to see Januzaj get some games though!
Why the feck did we get rid of kagawa if LVG doesn't want to play Mata?
Yeah, Gary Neville just wanted the excuse to stick up for his mate Wayne when he said as such last week. Couldn't believe he said it actually... The truth was, LVG backed himself into a corner with his undroppable line a couple of days prior and because Rooney wasn't as good as the striker and Mata isn't as big a name or his favourite, he put Rooney in his place.
Rooney and positionally disciplined do not go together. He's a numpty positionally. Will pop up at the fullback position just cos he fancied it, RVP said he was in his areas after Olympiakos away, his performance against Everton away was the perfect example of this also, constantly barging into Mata and Kagawa's position, pretty much stifled them and prevented us from building any kind of momentum. He should either be a 9, or he can get benched. Simples.
Kagawa would have been perfect in this system, adept at the press and would have kept the ball better than anyone else in our team.. But we were 3-5-2 at that time, and he probably would not have been as good a fit there. Mata is just more ruthless as the 10, plays that role perfectly in any system. LVG just dropped one of his notoriously big bollocks in naming Rooney captain. Hopefully, he'll realise that and act accordingly...
I don't think Rooney is the ideal fit for the position, but he's the best we have at the moment unless Mata performances in the next couple of games (assuming he plays). You'll know that I'm not a fan of him as a #10 because positionally he can be average, doesn't provide enough creativity, and his passing and touch are inconsistent, but we're playing a different system and he's done well so far. Conversely, Mata has shown no improvement between the lines and that's a concern, and it's not something that can be improved on. Still early on in the season of course and I have no idea how Van Gaal wants to play.
Yeh, I agree, Mata isn't perfect. But at the very least, he will control the ball, pass it and more often than not choose the right option... We can't say the same about Rooney. Both are very similar in that they aren't the total package as a 10, but despite that their numbers in terms of goals and assists are always there or thereabouts. They'll score and they'll assist. What Mata gives us is a better retainer of possession and someone who will always look for a goal. Rooney gives us the workrate, but where he loses out to Mata is that he won't put our defence under as much pressure because of a stupid decision or a stray pass which Rooney does. And he doesn't slow us down in the final third, it's usually one or two touch with him. Rooney on the other hand, just lumps it to Valencia on the diagonal or takes two or three (usually poor) touches before giving it to a more often than not, marked RVP... It will simply make it so much easier for both our defence and our midfield if Mata was there instead.
Kagawa should not have been sold. He would have been perfect for us in this system, but the 37m lumped on Mata in January necessitated the sale.
I think there's been a little bit too much emphasis placed on the difference Mata could possibly make if he was placed into the team. Yes, he is a superb player, but aside from the QPR game he hasn't exactly been superb this season. In fact, he was very poor in the draw to Burnley to the point where a lot of people were completely writing him off.
Granted, I'm looking forward to seeing how he plays presuming he gets more starts while Rooney is suspended and if he delivers and fits in perfectly then I'm happy to sacrifice one of our forwards for him to play, but I don't think it's a guarantee that he's going to deliver a series of superb performances. I hope he does, since he's one of the best assets we have when he does, but it's no guarantee that we'll improve massively with him.
Granted, I'm looking forward to seeing how he plays presuming he gets more starts while Rooney is suspended and if he delivers and fits in perfectly then I'm happy to sacrifice one of our forwards for him to play, but I don't think it's a guarantee that he's going to deliver a series of superb performances. I hope he does, since he's one of the best assets we have when he does, but it's no guarantee that we'll improve massively with him.
There has to be a way to utilize Rooney's off the ball work rate and Mata's effectiveness in attack and generally better possession play. Rooney wants to play everywhere and do everything anywhere so I don't see any harm in allowing him to do that alongside Falcao with Mata moving into pockets of space in and around the box. Said it last week, Mata's problem is not Rooney but the manager who can't bring himself to drop Van Persie. Mata also needs to modify his game a bit because when we play him behind the strikers we want him to create not to be one of the people who require service from midfield.
Well he now has 3 games to convince LVG. Not going to be easy against Everton and Chelsea.
Looks like Mata is the new RedCafe sweeatheart, after the previous ones Welbeck and Kagawa were sold. Well, at least he is actually good at playing football...
I don't understand this clamor for Mata. At no point in the last 2 games have I thought "We really need Mata here". We've looked brilliant going forward without him. Mata's problem is that he doesn't provide enough creativity while being poor defensively. If he can change that in the next 3 games one of the forwards could be dropped when Rooney comes back.
The strange thing is that he was getting ridiculous levels of criticism a few weeks back after his poor performance in the draw against Burnley. A couple of weeks out of the side after a massive improvement against QPR, and suddenly it's unfair that he's not starting and LVG is showing too much favouritism to RVP and Rooney. I really like Mata and hope he impresses presuming he starts while Rooney is suspended, but I think some people are going overboard with the supposed impact he'll have considering Rooney himself has put in some decent performances recently.
Tut tut
A chance for him now with Rooney out. Hopefully he takes the chance.
I'd be gutted if we get rid of him in January.
We always seem to have one player that has a very vocal and resolute fanbase that is more interested in him than the team, first there were the Berbatovians, then the Kagawaites and now the Matalans.
I don't buy this nonsense of the club looking to offload him in January or even next summer. I don't think we are in a position to be selling players, especially our best players. If we reach our targets this season (qualifying for the Champions League) we are going to need quality in depth. We are going to need players like Mata in Europe.
We won't be getting rid of Mata at all. Don't worry
Would be plain stupid to sell Mata after getting rid of Kagawa and ripped off by Dortmund in the process.
The Rooneyans also belong to that group.
They're like a cockroach that persisted while the other groups died actually.
If thats the case, then I am a Januzajvian.
I'm still a van Persian myself.
I am a Di Mariaian and an ardent De Geaian.
Concerned about Mata's future at OT. LVG doesn't seem to rate him. They're so many rumors right now about him leaving the club as early as the January transfer window. Its worrying, because almost every strong rumor about player exits has come to fruition under LVG. Even though it was somewhat expected, rumors over Welbeck, Hernandez and Nani leaving the club all came to reality. The same almost happened with Fellaini before his injury. Could letting Mata go be a big mistake?
If LVG is adamant we're getting CL next season, then it's incredibly short-sighted to start shifting players now... we'll need a bigger squad next season.
What happens if he doesnt perform in these 3 games to the level LVG expects,he could end up being benched alot this season ?
Ive liked what Ive seen in the games he's played under LVG especially in pre season but something tells me he may not get too much game time as a starter.
I've not read every post but in Mata's case i hope no one is writing anything stupid about selling him or worrying about where he will play.
Squads are not made up of just 11 players...one injury or suspension and Mata is back in the team...like he will be on Sunday!
Squads are not made up of just 11 players...one injury or suspension and Mata is back in the team...like he will be on Sunday!
Don't be surprised if Juan soon makes us ask "Wayne who?"
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