That was hardly a proper CL winning team was it? It was a one off fluke that won't happen often.
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Greece did an even worse version in 2004 - there's more then one way to skin a cat.
A massive element of fortune/luck sure, but you make your own luck and all that garbage.
Right so we should have Juan Mata as a starter because we would then have a team within the possibility to fluke a CL win? The fact is he is a good player who deserves an important role in our squad but we should have better in our strongest XI. Jose realised that.
I'm gonna have to go out to try and find me a hat like that now!
This picture is pretty much all that matters now.
No, but to claim he's not good enough to start for a team with CL ambitions is a bit harsh, when he's actually won the competition. Direct evidence suggests he is in fact, good enough to start for a team that can win the CL - and he was one of the better, if not the best player in that side... imagine if he was surrounded by better players/a better manager?! It's not like he looked out of place in any of Chelsea's CL games.
Also, Jose isn't always right.
Bizarre opinion. He's one of our best player's and would be a consistent starter in almost every team in the world. Just because Mourinho prefers hard workers over quality is an indictment on his managerial style, rather than Mata's ability. That coupled with his need to raise funds to strengthen otherweaker areas of the squad.
He should be one of the 4-5 players who will build a team around.
The best #10 in the squad, and by a distance. If rumours about Bastian and Schneiderlein are true, pick two from them and Carrick/Herrera and play them behind Mata.
Mata is glorious.
Mata is glorious.
Quite, also José didn't sell him because he wasn't good enough, merely not suited to the style he wanted to implement
He's a wonderful talent, you'd have to be a complete idiot to deny that, but for whatever reason we haven't consistently seen the best of him. I'd like him to start putting in performances like the one vs Liverpool more regularly. He's capable of doing so.
Mata has won the Europa League, The European Cup, The European Championships and The World Cup... he must be doing something right.
Although I agree that we haven't consistently seen the best of him since he's been here, could you say we've consistently seen the best of anyone in the past 2 seasons, apart from De Gea really?
Fair point, but with Mata being up there with one of our best players, I think we're right to expect more from him. That game at Anfield, he took the game by the scruff of the neck and dominated it in the process. It was a complete performance that he's capable of repeating more often than he has.
He barely starts for Spain and has very little influence. He was vital for Chelsea tho.
All I'm saying is if you look at our team in 2008, Bayern in 2013 and the other Barcelona teams to have been the best in Europe...Mata wouldn't get into any of them. He has never done much for Spain. He is not a good enough player to be Man United's best but at the moment he is our best player.
Oh I'm not saying he won it single-handidly or anything - but still, you've got to be a pretty good footballer to get into both of those Spain squads... or an average to shit striker.
If Mourinho sold Mata because he wasn't good enough for a CL winning side (despite him actually having been one of the best players in a CL winning side) then does that mean he thought someone like Willian was a better player than Mata? If so, he's an idiot.
In reality it was Mata's style that Mourinho had a problem with, not his actual quality. So, given the level of criticism Mou's style tends to get on here anyway, maybe that says more about him than it does about Mata?
In reality it was Mata's style that Mourinho had a problem with, not his actual quality. So, given the level of criticism Mou's style tends to get on here anyway, maybe that says more about him than it does about Mata?
Just as i thought
so just to be clear: willian and oscar are better players than mata. Is that what you are saying?
My mistake. I think Hazard has improved a lot in the last 3 seasons though.
To be honest, I'm a huge Mata fan, but I think he's a bracket below Hazard (certainly no shame in that.) I still think he has the potential to be a top-10 player in this league (for the simple fact that he once was when with Chelsea.)
Do you think he can do it playing in the false winger role?
As a #10 it's between him and Silva as the best in the league. He's ridiculous when he's played there. People forget how good he is because of how we've misused him in general.
He's in a similar situation to Di Maria. Both are arguably our most talented players, but we dont play a system that plays to their strength.
As a winger Mata is still good, but nowhere near his effectiveness as a 10.
He's in a similar situation to Di Maria. Both are arguably our most talented players, but we dont play a system that plays to their strength.
As a winger Mata is still good, but nowhere near his effectiveness as a 10.
Tbh Spain NEEDS someone like Mata. Are there better spanish midfielders than Mata? Yes. There are better playmakers and technical spanish wizards than him. But that's not what Spain lacks, they need goals. And none of them are better than Mata in the final third. Since David Villa's retirement you have these amazing worldclass midfielders passing around the ball because no one wants to score.
Well I thought he looked great there in the last part of the season. I think with a better RB playing behind him, he, Herrera and that new RB could create triangular magic!
Does anyone have the stats that highlighted Mata's surprisingly impressive work rate from the season just gone?
They disproved Mourinho's reason for selling Mata - the fact that he didn't work hard enough. I really like Mata.
They disproved Mourinho's reason for selling Mata - the fact that he didn't work hard enough. I really like Mata.
To be fair, there's still a difference between having impressive work rate and actually being useful/effective defensively.
So this isn't really disproving Mourinho's reasoning.
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Covering large areas of the pitch and having a high average miles run per match over the season is impressive. He obviously lacks defensive skills such as marking and tackling but overall I don't think he's a liability when we're defending like Jose made out.
That's certainly possible, although I think Di Maria will take that right wing spot next season, and of course we'd need a very good attacking RB.
He has been silent many times he played as a number 10 for us.Let's not rewrite history to hype up your favourite players.
He's been completely ineffective as a #10. Playing him out wide is one of the few things LVG has got right.
He was ineffective as the no.10 ?
He was like our best player when we went 352 and he was the no.10. Nearly everything was coming from him but our strikers weren't finding the net.
I'll never forget how one sided that game as whl in the first half, he was majestic but time and time again flacao and rvp couldn't find the net.
He was like our best player when we went 352 and he was the no.10. Nearly everything was coming from him but our strikers weren't finding the net.
I'll never forget how one sided that game as whl in the first half, he was majestic but time and time again flacao and rvp couldn't find the net.
That was maybe like 2 matches at most... he was very criticised before the match at whl. Remember passenger?
I worry for him when we get a long term left footed RW. We dont really play with a number 10. As good as the player is, once van gaal sees a player like bale available unfortunately mata is probably one of the first person to leave.
Atleast we will have another year or two to see him and a few more goals like the one against liverpool will keep everyone happy
Atleast we will have another year or two to see him and a few more goals like the one against liverpool will keep everyone happy
We didn't really play with a proper #10 in the second half of the season, but looking at how much attacking freedom Fellaini got and how restricted Herrera was, it was quite apparent that he did give one midfielder more attacking freedom than the other. Also, he mentioned that he wanted a right-sided defensive midfielder in the team, hinting at a 4-2-3-1 approach for the next season (though not stubbornly sticking to this formation).
van Gaal has always seemed to favour Mata in that #10 role and has tried many different ways to accommodate him. He tried a 3-4-1-2 at the start to give him attacking freedom as the #10. He tried a 3-1-4-2 to take the load off of Mata even more with a defensive midfielder and box-to-box midfielder instead of two box-to-box midfielders. He then went with a backwards-pointing 4-3-3 and tried to accommodate Mata in the more attacking central midfield role with Fellaini playing more defensively. Finally, he put him on the right wing once he saw that Mata couldn't play effectively enough in a deeper role.
I get the feeling that van Gaal will try his hardest to accommodate Mata this summer, but if that isn't possible, then I feel that van Gaal may give up and play Herrera or Rooney ahead of him as the #10/attacking central midfielder.
The problem with Mata was that whenever we played him in any position; we had to make a lot of changes to accommodate him in the team. It's not like I want him to go, we as a club could definitely use him; but when the final puzzle is complete I doubt Mata will be an important piece of it.
Van Gaal said that some of the transfers out this season might surprise us fans; I still wouldn't sell Mata unless we got a like for like RW version of Depay; a true forward rather than a made up one.
Completely agree,
I can see him being dropped down from being first team player to squad player from next season onwards. He's very useful as an impact sub, himself and Fellaini would be great options to have sat on the bench.
I think with the #10 role or AM role in the midfield LvG still wants a degree of strength and physicality, which is why I think he'll play Herrera there unless he gets a top striker, in which case he may use Rooney.
Yes, and this can result in Mata not becoming a first-11 player anymore. This season's pretty much going to determine whether van Gaal will make Mata a starter or not.
The reason alot of players fall out with Van Gaal is that its normally his way or the high way. His way is set in stone. The 433 in particular has limited space for an AM when you consider the importance of a DM. Moving Mata to the RW was a wonderful move; but that is not a long term solution at all. If I remember even Herrera was asked to cover him on the right so he could cut in centrally.
I wonder if mata could become a CF though. The striker position is going to be vital not in scoring goals but to link our wide forwards together. In that aspect; Mata could be one of the best around if he became a better finisher.
I wonder if mata could become a CF though. The striker position is going to be vital not in scoring goals but to link our wide forwards together. In that aspect; Mata could be one of the best around if he became a better finisher.
The 4-2-3-1, however, provides the perfect platform for the #10, and van Gaal has used this setup many times throughout his managerial career, so much so that I would consider this his main formation. Having said this, Mata's too weak on the ball to handle the physical challenges from the middle, so he's not suited for a central role. Out wide, he doesn't have to face the physical challenges that would in the middle, but this requires a good attacking right back to provide the width on the right as well as a midfielder on the right side who's quite disciplined, defensively.
In terms of playing as a striker, again, he's too weak. van Gaal's strikers are supposed to handle the physical pressure from the defenders and not lose possession cheaply to them. In no way can Mata perform that role adequately.
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