Funnily enough, you could argue the exact opposite and probably make a better case.
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Funnily enough, you could argue the exact opposite and probably make a better case.
That he's our least important? Surely Jonny Evans takes that prize.
That he's a player who we've found it difficult to accommodate in our starting XI (we did towards the end of the season with Herrera + Mata linking up beautifully). He can play wide, and did at Valencia, but his best form came when he played through the middle with Chelsea. We can't accommodate him there.
If Di Maria hadn't had such a horrible second half to the season, I think Mata would have been the first casualty on the team sheet.
He definitely isn't our most important player atm, not sure how you could make that argument really.
The real question is whether he will be more or less important next season as you could probably make a decent argument in both directions.
I'm leaning towards the idea of him having a more important role, on the basis that a) LVG has recognized that Mata is one of his best players, b) he pointed to a lack of balance as the reason for leaving Mata out of the team and c) we're likely to see that balance restored over the course of the window.
It's hard to see how Mata wouldn't be more effective with a secure midfield behind him or, if we're playing him as a false winger, with a better RB.
Maybe not though. Maybe he will continue to drift in and out of the team in different positions. I'm very sure he won't be sold though, that would be a backwards step given our lack of quality in attack.
The real question is whether he will be more or less important next season as you could probably make a decent argument in both directions.
I'm leaning towards the idea of him having a more important role, on the basis that a) LVG has recognized that Mata is one of his best players, b) he pointed to a lack of balance as the reason for leaving Mata out of the team and c) we're likely to see that balance restored over the course of the window.
It's hard to see how Mata wouldn't be more effective with a secure midfield behind him or, if we're playing him as a false winger, with a better RB.
Maybe not though. Maybe he will continue to drift in and out of the team in different positions. I'm very sure he won't be sold though, that would be a backwards step given our lack of quality in attack.
I know that LvG prefers 'inverted wingers', but I think Mata could work well ahead of Shaw dominating the left flank. It's not like Mata is a particularly orthodox wide man on the right anyway. Whether he drifts inside from the right or the left, it all works out the same. Plus, he's technically good enough for it not to matter too much.
With all this transfer news, what does the future hold for Mata? I still rate him and believe he can be the best in the PL when on form.
The best what? Generally curious.
Player.
No sorry this is completely wrong. The second bit I have bolded is related to the 1st. Your default pass should be to players who are able to create space for themselves and receive in space. This means they are have created time to have a look to assess options before passing but more importantly have time to receive the ball with a positive touch, which simply means they can receive in a manner which means they can then play forward. Receiving the ball under pressure means players are receiving the ball and shielding the ball from defenders which in turn often means receiving the ball without the option of playing forward on the first touch.
There wont always be space. Barcelona didn't always have Space when they pinned teams back. Heck, Arsenal and City don't always have space when pinning teams back. That's part of being a possession team. You create space for yourselves by being comfortable under pressure. Epecially as a number 10. That very position is surrounded by defensive midfielders and centre backs. The best of them can play without acres of space.
Deep-lying playmakers are completely different, however. Their skillset and requirements are different.
The bit in bold applies to a player like Mata. Hence he's often on the fringes of a game.
It doesn't apply to Iniesta, or Silva, or Isco, or even Coutinho. They often receive the ball under pressure and can turn their man, or move forward with it, or at least hold it and shield it. That makes them a great 'go-to' pass options. They sometimes drop into loads of space, but they don't rely on it.
You're backing up my point, because the best number 10s (or players in that pocket) do exactly that - they receive the ball in those congested areas consistently. There are probably more players I could add to the list.
The best players/number 10s are those who can be trusted to move the ball in and into dangerous areas. It's much easier to drop extremely deep and find loads of space to turn into it.
If Mata's always dropping deep or into more non-dangerous areas, then having him as the go-to pass just means we'll struggle to carve teams open.
if you pass to Mata, and he's got a man tight on his shoulder, he's basically restricted to pass the way he's facing. That doesn't apply for the best number 10s. That's why he's not the best go-to pass.
You want to pass to the go-to player on your terms, not his. Not only when he feels okay receiving it.
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I think this could have been a possibility too. If Di Maria had done a job on the right and continued creating chances at the same rate as he did between September and December, Mata wouldn't have got a look in.
I still love Mata though, and hope he stays. I reckon he still has a big role to play here.
What transfer news ?
I'm fully expecting Mata to play less next season, LVG will have a chat with Di Maria on his return and make sure he is in the right frame of mind for playing again, which I'm sure he will be.
Once he finds his form he'll make that RW spot his own. Unless LVG has plans to play Mata more centrally which I doubt, I really can't see Mata being anything other than a squad player / impact sub.
Which is fine with me, he has proven himself to be a very useful impact sub on quite a few occasions.
Once he finds his form he'll make that RW spot his own. Unless LVG has plans to play Mata more centrally which I doubt, I really can't see Mata being anything other than a squad player / impact sub.
Which is fine with me, he has proven himself to be a very useful impact sub on quite a few occasions.
Sorry we will have to agree to disagree. The beautiful thing about Iniesta, Coutinho etc is that they are able to receive with a positive touch, they have always created enough space for themselves to be able to receive going forward. The pressure for the majority of time comes after they have received the ball. The so called number 10's operate in the space between the lines, the reason they do this is so they can receive in a manner which means their first touch is forward. Watch closer you will see they are always positioned on the half turn so their default option is to go forward. You cant do this when you have a defender on your shoulder.
If a player is having to shield the ball as he receives it on his first touch his most likely next pass is back or sideways.
Being comfortable under pressure is different to your claim that your go-to passing option needs to be the guy who can hold the ball that bit longer, shield the ball, and turn when the challenges come in. You are confusing the attributes of a striker with a #10. You dont want a #10 having to operate with his back to goal when he is having to shield the ball from a defender. Mata is very good at making space for himself, thats a good thing.
As you say, we'll have to agree to disagree.
In Mata's case, I feel he makes space for himself. But rarely in the right area. Often too deep or too high. Rarely in the pocket where it's crowded (and it's almost always crowded in a 60+% possession team).
I agree about being in the pocket on the half turn, but it's not ALWAYS possible, and the ability to shield the ball and hold it under pressure is an asset. One that mata doesn't have.
The thing with this is, though, is if an attacking midfielder does shield the ball, it's almost impossible for them to be positive on the ball. Take Hazard, for example. Every time there's someone right on his shoulder/holding him, he has to go back. The same goes for someone like Ozil who, when under pressure, will turn back to relieve the pressure. This is the same for the likes of Coutinho, Silva, Iniesta, etc. The only sort of players who can play the ball positively under pressure are target men or physical yet skilled forwards like Ibrahimovic or Diego Costa.
What Mata does is good as an attacking midfielder, and I do agree with what @Stack says in that he does a great job at finding space for himself in order to do something positively. However, I also agree with you, Speak, with regards to Mata being weak under pressure. Whenever Mata gets physically challenged, more often than not, he does lose the ball. Having said that, Mata has demonstrated many times that he is very good in working the ball in tight spaces and congested areas. The number of times he's received the ball and turned the opposing marker away is something I cannot count in my hand.
I do feel that Mata will thrive under van Gaal for us. Mata is van Gaal's ideal #10, and I feel that van Gaal will do all he can to bring the best out of Mata as he did for Muller and Litmanen.
This picture is pretty much all that matters now.
I had another think about what you are saying and i think I have misinterpreted some of what you are saying and that in fact we are talking about the same thing but using different ways of expressing it which is why i have got your comments arse about face.
Cheers
News of us interested in two midfielders and retaining Di Maria. You'd have to think it will be difficult for Juan to hold a place. Many will disagree with me on this but I believe Juan Mata to be better than Di Maria as a player in overall quality.
Mata, the best player in the league?
Yeah. I think when he's on form he's the best player in the league.
Fair enough mate, I'm not sure I'd even place him in the top 10 personally.
Even during the 12-13 season you didn't think he was in the top 10 ?
I've heard the same been said about Nani etc...I've heard many times that Rafael is the best right back in the league. Mata reminds me a lot like Kagawa...a little Genius on his day but doesn't do the business often enough to be guaranteed a place in a top 4 PL team.....to call him best player in PL is just silly really....maybe the player with the best vision but if that was a bar to measure the best player in the league then Real Madrid would be making Remy Cabela their priority signing this summer......but yes Juan is a special talent but maybe not as good as his hype on redcafe
Yeah I guess in that season he'd have made the top 10, but that was before Hazard, Sanchez, Fabregas and Matic all came into the league.
I don't think he's far from all those players. I put them all and Mata in the same league.
Well he was the main player for a top 4 PL team (chelsea) so I don't see how it is silly opinion. When on form I really think he can be the best player in the PL. This isn't some absurd opinion as many experts have previously said he's the best in the premier league (and this was when we had Gareth Bale still playing).
Mata is way ahead of the likes of Kagawa or Nani.
This picture is pretty much all that matters now.
This is fantasticHazard played for Chelsea that season didn't he?
I don't even think he's good enough to start every game for a team that wants to win the League and challenge for the CL.
No, he signed the summer after.
So you're saying he signed in 2013? That would mean that last season was only his second with Chelsea. I don't think that's true.
You recently claimed he was on the level of Cleverley and Osman, so it's hard to take your post seriously.
Just too perfect. Hugs.
This picture is pretty much all that matters now.
both Hazard and Mata were in the PFA Team for 2012-13 season while at Chelsea
I don't know, I'm not even sure we'll sign 2 CMs.
Well, apart from the fact that he started every game for a team that won the CL...
This picture is pretty much all that matters now.
This is obviously a subliminal message directed to De Gea that whenever he tries to leave for Madrid, his dear amigo will not hesitate for one sec to pick him up in his little spaceship. Si, Agent Mata at work.
Yet he's already won the CL. Infact, he's one of only a few players in our squad that actually has.
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