Fabregas can play deeper to much better effect that Mata can. Also, he's a lot more involved in the general build up play, has better vision, physically better equipped, more flexible and all round a much better player.
8
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 35
- Goals
- 10
- Assists
- 4
- Yellow cards
- 2
- Status
Fabregas can play deeper to much better effect that Mata can. Also, he's a lot more involved in the general build up play, has better vision, physically better equipped, more flexible and all round a much better player.
He was Chelseas player of the year two seasons running and when he plays for us he generally hits very good numbers in both goals and assists in a proper shit team.
LVG is pretty mental and has a flavour of the month style of team selection. To say he hasn't cut it is bizarre. 14 starts for us last year with 6 goals 4 assists. This season from CAM - his position - 7 starts 3 goals 2 assists. His numbers hugely drop off in CM but that is absolutely not his position.
To sum up from cam he has been very good for us but from cm he has been a bit rubbish. He would be rubbish at CB as well. his very good stats have come in a year of the team bein awful as well.
there is a significant difference between them. It is just recently that Fabregas plays more advanced, because Oscar got dropped. But he plays it totally different than Mata (the 10 position).
Can't agree with that at all. He's definitely not a much better player. I will concede he's better suited to a deeper play because he has more experience there but thats not where he's playing is he?
Different in the 10 position? As i said Mata has the edge in scoring and Cesc has the edge in the final ball but not much in it. Even the stats are eerily similar in term of chances created, passing and end product.
Fellaini can play as a 10 too, but not like Mata in terms of style. Same with Fabregas, the difference isnt that big but he is different to Mata in that position. Not to mention the fact that he is 10 times more of a complete player than Mata. Mata is pretty much a second striker, while Fabregas is a playmaker. The fact that Mata is more of a finisher and Fabregas a creator tells you everything you need to know. Their game evolves around those abilities, so they play it differently. You call it a small difference, others see that as a huge difference. A bit like Herrera, who is again a differnet palyer to both of them. Even Silva is different to all the other mentioned.
He plays as a CM unless Mourinho wants more defensive awareness in which case Oscar drops out for Ramires/Mikel and Fabregas plays further forward.
Agree to disagree. Fabregas is on a different level to Mata. It's not even close imo.
He does have good stats (inflated by set-piece contributions) but there's no denying he's been generally a bit disappointing in a United shirt. Under Moyes and under Van Gaal. At least there shouldn't be.
As i said, not much in it. Id say Cesc is better in the final ball but at the end of the day they pretty much create the same amount of chances. If you play them in the center of the midfield then the choice is Fabregas no doubt.
Ah fair enough, wasn't aware of that.
Agree to disagree. He's not on a different level unless its in the midfield. In the 10 position they are very similar, nothing Fab can do that Mata can't.
Sure stas can be misleading but consider Mata plays for an underwhelming United and Hazard plays for a dominate Chelsea. It is amazing Mata conjures as many goals as that from this side.
In addition as noted... Mata was kicked to the curb so Hazard/Oscar could play 10, yet clearly they decided they needed more options and went and got Cesc. So while I know Mata is not a defensive dynamo, and clearly can not provide the options Cesc does, when I watch games like the last two, or games where bot Falcao and RvP do statue impersenations I just wonder how Mata continues to sit.
Put him in the hole behind Rooney with some wings creating space and I think he will be better than anything we have seen lately.
As others have pointed out, there is a large gulf between the two at the moment.
There isn't and many will agree with me. Not in the 10 position. 'Large gulf' is an over exaggeration.
Fabregas plays as our #10 out of necessity, (Matić suspended) if Oscar is in terrible form like he has been, or if we set out defensively with two DM's. It's not his natural position and isn't where he is the majority of the time. He plays a totally different role for us than Mata did.
I think its worth giving Juan a go and I expect Louis to do so soon.
The main difference is Fabregas is doing it in (and contributing to) a well-drilled, efficient, winning team. Mata did it mainly during a period where Chelsea were far off the pace. If Mata's one of your main men, your team probably just isn't that good, in my opinion.
You say this as though Fabregas has been first choice #10 throughout the season when that hasn't even been the case. I think Mourinho also wanted to keep Mata, but it was Mata's decision to leave. Made sense with him probably fearing that his World Cup position wasn't secure, plus it seemed like his relationship with Mourinho reached a point where it couldn't be augmented.
For me, Mata's a squad player at best and there's nothing wrong with that. Unless he somehow revamps his game and works on his deficiencies, I don't think anything will change that. Though what I don't understand is why Van Gaal hasn't utilised him more in the last month. Were the QPR and Southampton performances enough for Van Gaal to opt for Fellaini? It was very sad to see him come on against Newcastle yesterday and have very little impact.
He's never been that good, wasn't at Chelsea isn't now.
Fabregas doesn't play 10 for Chelsea.
We play with a 10 and Mata is our best number 10 by a comfortable distance that it's laughable that LvG doesn't play him. We've had Rooney, Fellaini, Di Maria, Januzaj and Herrera play there and no one has been good. Mata brings you goals but apparently that doesn't warrant a start. The kind of balls Di Maria was putting in (when he did it right) against Sunderland is the kind of balls you only see from him, Mata and maybe Herrera. Rooney should be doing it too but he hasn't at all this season.
Not true at all let alone by a comfortable distance. All of Di Maria, Rooney and Herrera have been better this season.
Januzaj has barely played there at all so that's nonsense. Mata has had more games as a #10 than Fellaini has had as well. Same goes for Rooney as well. The other 2 have been clearly better than Mata has. Even Rooney playing deeper has created more. If all of them are deemed "Not good" then that does not say much for Mata
What kind of balls would that be? Rooney and Di Maria have both played more through balls per game than Mata has. Despite having occasional stinkers (which come with their style of play) their passes are a lot more penetrating and dangerous.
Still a bit strange that he hasn't played a little bit more but hardly a travesty.
Not in the 10 role they haven't. Di Maria either needs to be deeper or wider, Herrera is a natural CM and Rooney, well I think we can all agree is a striker, not a midfielder.
I can't accept the argument about Mata not being brilliant but he is our best number 10 and has done well.
Mata will chip in with a few goals when a game is won against inferior opposition, but how many match winning contributions does he make for us? He doesn't like receiving the ball between the lines, he can't hit a ball first time and he's a passenger defensively. Fabregas is much better at the latter two, and his final ball is also world class, as well as his third man runs in and around the box. Mata may seem to have better stats, but if someone pulls the ball back around the edge of the penalty area, which player would you rather be arriving on the end of it? For me, Fabregas by a distance.
Mata is incredibly good technically, has great vision himself and is a brilliant set piece taker. He's an asset to us no doubt, but he's not a necessity, and he never will be for any club that wishes to be an elite side. Fabregas is, and that's why he's a level above someone like Mata.
Mata is incredibly good technically, has great vision himself and is a brilliant set piece taker. He's an asset to us no doubt, but he's not a necessity, and he never will be for any club that wishes to be an elite side. Fabregas is, and that's why he's a level above someone like Mata.
This is the problem among far too many fans, why on earth bring Fabregas into the discussion, look at Mata for the player he is, not the player Fabregas is.
If we were playing that Newcastle match at a time when we were more secure in our league position and the team wasn't under as much pressure as they are at the minute then we would have seen Mata in the Fellaini role.
I was adding my two cents to the earlier argument between members regarding Fabregas and Mata. I'm perfectly able to analyse Mata as a player individually, and have done so partially in my post anyway.
It was a general view, not solely specific to your post. For example, Mata is the only player in the league criticised for not being as good as David Silva.
Mata is far from a midfielder either. In my opinion there is very little between Rooney and Mata, and I see both as second strikers. Maybe our best setup would be Mata behind Rooney, and in front of Blind and Herrera, but if we had more midfielders available I would play Herrera instead of Mata in no10.
I don’t think we have any brilliant players to be honest. And Mata is not even a starter.
Should be.
Fair enough. I believe the fact it's a rational discussion is telling in itself though. Why would anyone criticise Ross Barkley for not being as good as Silva, for example.
In the last few games probably yes, but we have done pretty well without him. IMO van Gaal thinks Herrera-Blind is too lightweight and because Mata doesn’t contribute much defensively, it’s safer to play Fellaini. I wouldn’t play that way, but there is very little chance for him to get into starting line-up in the coming weeks.
Surely Carrick, Herrera and Mata though is more physical than Busquets Xavi Iniesta who did fine away at City.....?
There are a couple of key differences, one is that Barca are a team laying with confidence, but the main one is that they have one of the best, if not the best, attacks in world football, meaning that teams won't press onto their midfield as they can't afford to leave space in behind with that trio of forwards. We pose no such threat in our attack and teams will squeeze up on our midfield relentlessly, making Mata a liability.
I love that argument. It works for Barca so surely it will work for us, right?
You meant Rakitic, Busquets and Iniesta I guess.
Adnan Rooney Di Maria IMO playing ahead of them as a 3 has the potential if all on form to be as good a front 3 that has ever walked onto a PL pitch.....so I don't think your comment is wholly accurate.
Adnan has barely posed a goal threat at senior level and Di Maria has never been a consistent goal scorer, I don't see any comparison at all with 3 of the best forwards in the world.
As some Chelsea fan has already pointed out. He is playing no.10 there at present. Fact is Mourinho chose Oscar to be his number 10 and he hasn't been good enough this season so Fabregas has had to push up and take his position. Whatever you think of Mata he was up there with the best in that position. Lets not try to rewrite history
None of them have been better as a 10. Di Maria's best games have come from the wide or in a role that's more free.
It's not nonsense comparing Januzaj. Januzaj has played there at Mata's expense. Same as Fellaini and all the others. That's the point. How many times a player has played there when we have a better one. It's ridiculous. The AMC performances shouldn't be so poor in a team like United but they have. Consistency is to blame as it is for so many other positions.
Di Maria clearly tries the most at creating chances. Recently Januzaj, when played on the right and not in a diamond, has been good at it as well. Herrera is decent but he's not as good of a nr. 10 just like Mata isn't as good further behind.
All of Di Maria's best games have come as a left midfielder/winger.
In our top 5 scoring + assisting chart (you can have stats separate, doesn't matter a lot) you've got RvP, Rooney, Di Maria, Falcao and Mata. These are the guys that most often give the final ball or score a goal. These are also the most expensive players (shocking how that correlates). But you wouldn't know it just by reading these forums because they are all shit apparently.
Before the season started, if we lined up a 4-5-1 system with Rooney up top I bet you the other 5 players chosen by the caf would be Di Maria, Mata, Januzaj, Herrera, Carrick. The defense has basically been whoever is fit. We haven't seen a lineup close to that. People want that lineup because on paper it looks like our strongest lineup. It's a formation that's been used by United and many other teams to a great success. Came close to it last match but I want more.
None of them have been better as a 10. Di Maria's best games have come from the wide or in a role that's more free.
It's not nonsense comparing Januzaj. Januzaj has played there at Mata's expense. Same as Fellaini and all the others. That's the point. How many times a player has played there when we have a better one. It's ridiculous. The AMC performances shouldn't be so poor in a team like United but they have. Consistency is to blame as it is for so many other positions.
The gulf between Mata and Fellaini is huge. Rooney's not as a good or better as Mata as you claimed despite having more chances to show this. Also, a part of his chance creation and assists come from corners, not just through balls. Not taking that away from him, just saying it doesn't count as a through ball. And if you're not sure what kind of balls that would be then I don't know how you can argue against it. Di Maria's pass to Rooney through on goal. That high ball from outside the box that goes over the defense through on to a player that makes a run. Like Henderson's pass to Sturridge last game. Those are the kind of balls that you see Di Maria and Mata make and almost no one else.
Di Maria clearly tries the most at creating chances. Recently Januzaj, when played on the right and not in a diamond, has been good at it as well. Herrera is decent but he's not as good of a nr. 10 just like Mata isn't as good further behind.
All of Di Maria's best games have come as a left midfielder/winger.
In our top 5 scoring + assisting chart (you can have stats separate, doesn't matter a lot) you've got RvP, Rooney, Di Maria, Falcao and Mata. These are the guys that most often give the final ball or score a goal. These are also the most expensive players (shocking how that correlates). But you wouldn't know it just by reading these forums because they are all shit apparently.
Before the season started, if we lined up a 4-5-1 system with Rooney up top I bet you the other 5 players chosen by the caf would be Di Maria, Mata, Januzaj, Herrera, Carrick. The defense has basically been whoever is fit. We haven't seen a lineup close to that. People want that lineup because on paper it looks like our strongest lineup. It's a formation that's been used by United and many other teams to a great success. Came close to it last match but I want more.
I cant see what those numbers refer to, do you have a link?
Ah, it's missing. I'll edit the post. It's per 90 minutes. Put it in the spoiler header.
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