Or maybe the truth was Jose is a shit and Washed up manager.
Jose Mourinho | Sacked by Roma
- Thread starter roonster09
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Or maybe the truth was Jose is a shit and Washed up manager.
Putting yourself first isn’t the sign of a great manager… and he isn’t, he’s a washed up dinosaur that does far more harm than good for the players he ‘manages’ and the clubs he’s employed by.
National team job next then retirement hopefully.
He's aiming for the Newcastle job, isn't he?
Will loose again this sunday against Napoli.
Honeymoon is over.
As an overall package I cannot think of a worse (top flight) manager than Mourinho in world football these days. He just has nothing in the positive column for him anymore. Imagine being a player under him.
I can’t believe anyone still thinks he can win things at the highest level.
You can give him a midfield of Kimmich Kante and De Bruyne and Jose will still say a league two team has more quality than them.
I can’t believe anyone still thinks he can win things at the highest level.
You can give him a midfield of Kimmich Kante and De Bruyne and Jose will still say a league two team has more quality than them.
I think you're largely right and I think the main reason he's fallen this badly is the modern players personality change from his heyday and his inability to adapt to that beyond attacking it.
If you handed him a team of the character of his 04 dressing room they would probably eat his bullshit and perform for him. But most people nowadays dont need to and wont put up with being treated that way
I think it's representative of a shift in society as a whole, which I view as a good thing, not just in football. 15 years ago, pretty much everywhere you looked there was much more of a culture of "Do what the people above you say no matter what, no questions. Your thoughts and feelings don't matter."
I have no idea why Newcastle would want him.
Interesting to know who still thinks Mourinho can hack it.
Jose should have just waited for the Portuguese national manager role to become available after Spurs. I think he’s run his race and all those coaches he once had have all retired or left him to do other things. It’s like Clough when Peter Taylor left him… never the same manager. We can safely say that Utd squeezed the last bit out of him, although it wasn’t too much.
Its weird as a decade ago, it seemed like a forgone conclusion that he would overtake SAF in the major honours won stakes.
Its weird as a decade ago, it seemed like a forgone conclusion that he would overtake SAF in the major honours won stakes.
I think it's more likely that his mid noughties Chelsea side would be tactically outclassed in the modern Premier League. The game has advanced so much over the past decade and a half that his tactics are no longer viable at the highest level.
I think there was a study which showed that the average km covered per team increased by something ridiculous like 50% per game over the past 20 years. Add to that, counterpressing (which is Kryptonite to a Mourinho style side) was not around then whereas now most sides employ it to some degree. A Hassenhutl Southampton would rip his 04 Chelsea apart let alone a modern Klopp side because Mourinho likes to play with static numbers in exactly the areas that these coaches want him to- deep in his own half.
And I don't get the idea that Mourinho inspired players from the previous "tougher" generation and can't relate to the modern cosseted ones given that he has consistently lost dressing rooms throughout his career. He lost the Drog, Terry, Cech dressing room as soon as they hit a rough patch results wise as well- it simply took 3 years for that to happen because they were a fantastic side. Nowadays he just starts getting bad results sooner and sooner in his reigns because of a combination of his tactics being outdated for the modern game and the declining quality of players that he is given the opportunity to manage (due to poor job performance on his part). The mentalities of the players hasn't changed much in my view.
Did he lose them that first time round or did he lose Roman? I get the impression from how those guys talk of him and how they fought for him when he went back that they absolutely adored him, which would make sense because they were rather 'old school' mentalities of player
He is done in any league with competition. He would still win the league with PSG or Bayern, but he is not going to do something with teams that are not the best in their league. He is not even competing anymore.
He is like Ole in that sense that most improvements only come with transfers. Newcastle would be good for him, as he would be less exposed with all the money and shiny new players, but he wouldnt last long there either i imagine.
He is like Ole in that sense that most improvements only come with transfers. Newcastle would be good for him, as he would be less exposed with all the money and shiny new players, but he wouldnt last long there either i imagine.
Good point. Roman apparently wanted more “attractive” football. Though Avram Grant was hardly the man to take them on that journey…
Still, I think @BerryBerryShrew is right overall. The reason the Chelsea dressing room loved Jose was more down to him helping them win loads of stuff thanks to his (then) revolutionary tactics, than because of their super-duper old-school mentality.
Apparently sent off during the match. Spalletti sent off for clapping the ref after FT.
First team to stop Napoli this season
He was right wasn't he? To finish second with those United players was a hell of an achievement.
The achievement was actually by De Gea. Carried Mourinho and the squad to 2nd.
Most influential PL season by a GK ever
De Gea definitely played a big part in it but no, it wasn’t de gea that carried mourinho.
It’s strange to see that fans still hate him to the point of not being able to see how weak our squad was during that period. If Jose were given the funds at the right time to keep building, we would have won more silverware by now.
But he had funds. It's just that poor spending under him meant that people now think that he wasn't backed.
He very much did honestly. You were pretty mediocre for most of that season, De Gea turning into The Matrix and creating an Exclusion Zone around your goal was what kept you up
Under Mourinho you were only actually really good for about a full year - from like November 2016 to November 2017
fecking hell, Jose fans keep coming up with this nonsense. If Jose was given more funds, we would have had more deadwood. Nothing else.Not so sure. I think there are two reasons Jose is no longer effective. These are:
1) He is tactically inflexible and his style isn't suited to the modern game.
2) His man management style is that of a hard taskmaster.
Your point touches on the 2nd, however I think a big reason why players now aren't good with hard taskmasters is due to them having been pampered from before they were teenagers, given vast sums of money in their teens and having massive social media followings and everything that goes with that narcissism/vanity etc.
Players from his first Chelsea team, Porto and Inter still had to clean the boots of older pros and had YTS type contracts until they hit 17/18 so where used to having to graft to an extent. Today's footballers are far too precocious imo.
That said, I think, tactically, he has been done for the best part of 6-7 years now.
Impressive stuff, needs to be added to the Honours section of his Wikipedia along with the 2nd place finish in 2018 and almost managing a team in a League Cup final in 2021.
Yeah i think this is mostly it.
I cannot think of any other manager who has gone from being one if the top 2/3 in the world to where he is now at his relatively young age.
Its really quite odd.
I think his man management style worked better 10+ years ago but also relied on winning - it doesn't work when you are not on an upward trajectory. Even his 2nd stint at Chelsea was v successful until the incident with doctor etc.
I also agree that in this country at least his tactics are outdated - lets see how he fares in Italy with an average Roma side. Top 4 would be success after their last season.
Finally another reason is that because of his persona and history and how disliked he is by some of the media, a big chunk of fans here in England simply hate his guts and at both United and Spurs it was very difficult to ever make it work. (Benitez is up against it at Everton despite the good start he just wont get time or patience) - Every player dropped has been thrown under the bus etc. Can you imagine how the fans / media would have reacted to DVB never getting a chance under Ole if it was Mourinho.
He should never manage in England again for sure
I was saying before kickoff yesterday that Ole has to set United up like Jose to be as compact as possible in the first half, because it was absolutely obvious that Liverpool were going to start really fast. And they were going to press really high and win the ball back almost immediately.
It was all about staying in the game. Something that Jose was pretty good at. Getting to half time and still be in the game.
Call it what you like. Park the bus. Just keep it tight for at least the first half.
Nothing at all wrong with that when you are playing Liverpool on top form.
So what did Ole do.
The complete opposite. And we were 0-4 down at half time.
It was all about staying in the game. Something that Jose was pretty good at. Getting to half time and still be in the game.
Call it what you like. Park the bus. Just keep it tight for at least the first half.
Nothing at all wrong with that when you are playing Liverpool on top form.
So what did Ole do.
The complete opposite. And we were 0-4 down at half time.
That's a disastrous post. Jose parking the bus is exactly what ended up costing us points - more often than not - in big matches.
The reason we lost was that Solskjaer is tactically inept. Not that he didn't follow the example of the failure that is his predecessor who parked the bus repeatedly en route to leaving us 19 points adrift of the league leaders by December before he was sacked (having failed to even mount a title challenge in any of his seasons here despite being allowed to break world transfer records).
It is nothing like as disastrous as being soundly beaten by your biggest rival 0-5 at home.
And you have missed my point.
I was saying that Ole is tactically inept by not setting his team up to stay in the game. By picking a stronger midfield so as to compete with Liverpool.
I haven't. I just find it non-sensical. A defeat is a defeat, regardless of the margin. Mourinho lost United many matches by parking the bus immediately, which led to giving up the match immediately as we invited pressure and were unable to offer a challenge. On the other hand, in most of our successful matches against top teams (including against City in recent years), United pressed, rather than defended with 10 in the box as Mourinho did. Most of the evidence points to the fact that surrendering before the match even begins, ala Mourinho, leads to more points dropped than attempting to have some semblance of an attacking strategy, throughout the season.
If your argument is that we lost because Solskjaer didn't listen to you and copy the "coaching" of his predecessor who did a horrific job during his stint here, then it's risible. Mourinho's record in big matches while he was employing that strategy was one of the worst that we have seen, and much worse than even Solskjaer's.
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Playing all his greatest hit in Rome already I see, year 3 Jose has become month 3 Jose
Is Smalling injured again or has he been completely frozen out?
League form starting to not look so good either.
He should retire from football. What a sad fall from the grace. If anyone in 2015 after Chelsea's title win would have told "Jose will be irrelevant in 2021" people would have laughed. The whole 15-16 fiasco just killed him. Yes the madrid job took a lot from him but still he had some aura around him. Never saw that even for United. Yes we won couple of trophies but for most part we looked a cowardly side which is what Jose has become now.
Our bad luck we wasted 5 years with LVG and Ole who were either broken or outdated
Playing all his greatest hit in Rome already I see, year 3 Jose has become month 3 Jose
Would love him to get sacked and end up with the money men at Newcastle and take them down.