Jose Mourinho Sack Watch | Sacked per 19-04

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I am going with a contrarian viewpoint here. I just think they were extremely unlucky to not win today. They created some chances that should really have been buried. Son's finishing let him down today although he hit the woodwork and was unlucky not to score.

Jose is a pragmatic defense first manager and it is clear that he doesn't coach his teams to take risks when they are ahead but today isn't one of those days where he shut up shop. I do enjoy the schadenfreude though.
 
Mindhunter said:
I am going with a contrarian viewpoint here. I just think they were extremely unlucky to not win today. They created some chances that should really have been buried. Son's finishing let him down today although he hit the woodwork and was unlucky not to score.

Jose is a pragmatic defense first manager and it is clear that he doesn't coach his teams to take risks when they are ahead but today isn't one of those days where he shut up shop. I do enjoy the schadenfreude though.
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There is some truth in this. They played a phenomenal 30 minutes in the first half after 15th minute and should have scored at least 2. But in the second half they just wanted to see out the 1-0 win and had no real intention of dominating the game (and score a second). They had one dangerous counter but otherwise they just let Fulham play in the second half.
 
PaulScholes99 said:
There is some truth in this. They played a phenomenal 30 minutes in the first half after 15th minute and should have scored at least 2. But in the second half they just wanted to see out the 1-0 win and had no real intention of dominating the game (and score a second). They had one dangerous counter but otherwise they just let Fulham play in the second half.
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In the second half, Fulham won almost every duel or second ball. I guess when the team is forced to their own half for long period and lost so many duel and second ball, the psychological part would unavoidably start getting to the players’ minds. They probably ended up hanging there and just tried to keep the shape. This had been the same as how we played under him. I feel his philosophy has become too difficult to execute in the modern games.
 
Irwin99 said:
Another attacking player to compliment Kane and Son and if they start killing teams off then they're not a million miles away. Some of the points they dropped earlier in the season were ridiculous from what I remember and they probably should have gotten a draw against Liverpool. They could easily have 36 points at this stage in the season. Their brand of football might be shite but it can be effective if done right.
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They have plenty of attackers. Bergwijn, Bale, Lamela, Alli, Vinicius, and Moura were all on the bench and he still chose to start Sissoko on the right. He's just overly defensive. It is what it is.
 
2 man midfield said:
“We aren’t getting the results to excuse the style.”

Spot on, exactly the issue I had with him. You could forgive the tumescent football if it actually worked, but it doesn’t.
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I was saying exactly this even when Spurs were on a winning run. To justify the football he's playing he has to win one of the big two.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
The caf unanimously called this when he took over.

The league is wide open, Spurs have the best No9 in the league and a lot of very good players, Mou was backed and he sets up like he's a Hodgson disciple. To Dare is to Draw.
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I mean some people have seen this coming for years and years.
 
Mindhunter said:
I am going with a contrarian viewpoint here. I just think they were extremely unlucky to not win today. They created some chances that should really have been buried. Son's finishing let him down today although he hit the woodwork and was unlucky not to score.

Jose is a pragmatic defense first manager and it is clear that he doesn't coach his teams to take risks when they are ahead but today isn't one of those days where he shut up shop. I do enjoy the schadenfreude though.
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Here's the thing: You are right. Not about them being unlucky - it was crap finishing - but about them potentially being able to score more. However this ignores the fact that it has happened multiple times. Jose and the spurs fans can moan about Son and Kane missing chances till the cows come home but the fact is that no one scores every chance they get. In fact the outlier is when Spurs beat us 1-6. In most games you see a miss or two.

The fact that this keeps happening to Jose suggests that it is a problem that's down to him not just the players.

"if Lukaku scored that at Anfield..."
"If Sonny scored that at Anfield..."
"If Guatia didn't turn into Rinat Dasaev.."
"If Lanzini hadn't hit that..."
"If Kane scored that 5 yard header last night.."

It doesn't work like that anymore. Spurs don't have 11 world class stars like Chelsea in 2005 and other teams now have a player or two who can hurt you.

I already see the Spurs who acted like Billy Big Bollocks a month ago claiming they never expected anything this year. This is classic Jose. He convinces you to lower expectations and claims minor wins as great victories. The latter day Mourinho, if he was a military general, would capture a fort and spin it as bigger than winning the battle of Iwo Jima.

Look at the attacking talent they have - Bergwijn, Lo Celso, Lamela, Alli, Vinicius, and Moura. Sure it's not exactly Duff, Schrrule and Oscar but they are more than capable of bringing in an extra 3-9 points a season. Yet the team is set up to ensure these guys provide zero goal threat between them.

He moans that the defenders aren't good enough and it's repeated by his mynahs in the media:



...and yet they have conceded the second fewest goals in the league (16) behind City (12) and ahead of United (24) and the two Liverpool clubs and Leicester (21). If Davinson is so bad just play Rodon. What do you stand to lose? The truth is that Spurs have a perfectly good team to challenge for the title. You can't plead poverty when you have £42M on Sanchez, £55M on Ndombele, £27 on Lo Celso and Bergwijn and a sweet deal on Reguillon. If they had won 2 of the games they drew (West Ham and Wolves) they'd be top.
 
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Maluco said:
His tactics still work I think. They just don’t work with Jones/Smalling or Dier/Sanchez.

Give him back Samuel/Lúcio, Terry/Carvalho or Pepe/Ramos, and he would still be winning league titles.

It’s an unpopular opinion because he is nasty and his football is unattractive, but the difference between being able to close out games and not make mistakes is right there.
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But that's on him as a manager
He knows it doesn't work with certain players yet tries it again and again
That right there is bad management as hes not adapting to the players he has

I mean put me in charge of wolves and no matter the result i can say my tactics would work if I had Rio/vidic and Ronaldo/Rooney

The worst thing spurs can do is go 1-0 before half time.

Spurs and Jose are reliant on opposition not scoring but his own side being very clinical like they were against United and Leeds
They surrender the game and let other teams back in, something we saw United do under Jose a lot.
It's frustrating when you have the players to Do so much more
It's more frustrating when it happens again and again yet expecting something different
 
FootballHQ said:
I can honestly see him pushing for a move if they don't get into the CL either through league or europa.

He is one of the best around in world football now in his position and those types simply have to be playing champions league year in year out.

Can you imagine if any of Ronaldo, Lewandowski, Mbappe, Neymar missed out on CL for even one season, they're probably all be on their agents to move clubs that summer.

Having 3 years left does put Spurs still in a good position though so I imagine the crunch will be sumer 2022 as two years would be last chance to get really big money and then you risk him running his deal down.

Interesting to see what he decides in next 18 months given he's coming up to 30 now. Van Persie was in a similar position a decade ago and we all know what he decided. I think actually winning league cup would make it easier for Kane to move on as he'd feel content with at least leading Spurs to one trophy in his "era" there and deep down he knows they're not good enough to win league given they had the conditions this year to seriously fight for it.
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some players are happy with being at mediocre teams, and becoming legends at the club, not going after trophies.

Gerrard, Kane, Shearer, Le Tissier are all examples of players who could/ should have gone onto clubs that were winning trophies, but stayed.
 
Chelsea fans told us that he was finished. We laughed, he said he had changed, we believed.

Jose does a Jose.

United fans tell Spurs fans that he’s finished. They all believed, bought into him. Cant see what’s in front of them.

Jose does a Jose.
 
Haddock said:
Here's the thing: You are right. Not about them being unlucky - it was crap finishing - but about them potentially being able to score more. However this ignores the fact that it has happened multiple times. Jose and the spurs fans can moan about Son and Kane missing chances till the cows come home but the fact is that no one scores every chance they get. In fact the outlier is when Spurs beat us 1-6. In most games you see a miss or two.

The fact that this keeps happening to Jose suggests that it is a problem that's down to him not just the players.

"if Lukaku scored that at Anfield..."
"If Sonny scored that at Anfield..."
"If Guatia didn't turn into Rinat Dasaev.."
"If Lanzini hadn't hit that..."
"If Kane scored that 5 yard header last night.."

It doesn't work like that anymore. Spurs don't have 11 world class stars like Chelsea in 2005 and other teams now have a player or two who can hurt you.

I already see the Spurs who acted like Billy Big Bollocks a month ago claiming they never expected anything this year. This is classic Jose. He convinces you to lower expectations and claims minor wins as great victories. The latter day Mourinho, if he was a military general, would capture a fort and spin it as bigger than winning the battle of Iwo Jima.

Look at the attacking talent they have - Bergwijn, Lo Celso, Lamela, Alli, Vinicius, and Moura. Sure it's not exactly Duff, Schrrule and Oscar but they are more than capable of bringing in an extra 3-9 points a season. Yet the team is set up to ensure these guys provide zero goal threat between them.

He moans that the defenders aren't good enough and it's repeated by his mynahs in the media:



...and yet they have conceded the second fewest goals in the league (16) behind City (12) and ahead of United (24) and the two Liverpool clubs and Leicester (21). If Davinson is so bad just play Rodon. What do you stand to lose? The truth is that Spurs have a perfectly good team to challenge for the title. You can't plead poverty when you have £42M on Sanchez, £55M on Ndombele, £27 on Lo Celso and Bergwijn and a sweet deal on Reguillon. If they had won 2 of the games they drew (West Ham and Wolves) they'd be top.
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I agree with all of that apart from the last paragraph. To be fair the examples of spending have come across multiple seasons and are paltry sums of money nowadays for attacking talent.
 
Maluco said:
His tactics still work I think. They just don’t work with Jones/Smalling or Dier/Sanchez.

Give him back Samuel/Lúcio, Terry/Carvalho or Pepe/Ramos, and he would still be winning league titles.

It’s an unpopular opinion because he is nasty and his football is unattractive, but the difference between being able to close out games and not make mistakes is right there.
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Give him the best CB pairing in the world, arguably better pairings than any that exist right now, on paper and he would win league titles? How is that a sign of tactics that still work? That's like saying if you put De Bruyne behind Ronaldo with Sane and Sancho on the wings that your tactics work and you will win league titles. If you have better players than everyone else you're more likely to win titles. It doesn't mean your tactics are viable.
 

Well that all sounds incredibly familiar..

RedDevil@84 said:
Lost the dressing room. Spurs form nose-dived.


Never happens. Once the players decide to drop form and no longer play for the manager, it is over.
It is cheaper to get rid of the manager than the players.

If Levy said such things, the players and their representatives would be all over him. Also at the same time, Levy needs to have some kind of blind belief in Poch. That kind of belief is difficult to have in the modern game.
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Also, Poch hardly seemed interested himself anyway in sorting everything out. Moving him on was definitely the right move.
 
Spurs were in a very strong position after 9 games with a lot of their rivals not really firing and since then he's gone into defensive mode like they're a few points ahead trying to see out the title, not with 30 games to go.

They'd scored 21 goals in their first 9 games, then he intentionally shuts up shop and they score 9 goals in the next 8 games. Every time they've gone ahead they stopped playing, think one game against Wolves they had a second half xG of 0.02 or something. It is possible to win cups that way but you can't win league titles, draws are too costly.

Kane and Son were in the form of their life and then he just cut off supply, it's like having a hot hand in poker and checking away and never making a sizeable bet. He should have been exploiting their form but his inherent negativity shone through.

Also at every club he goes to, he just wastes talent by completely marginalising them, if you look at United how he treated Mkhitaryan when he first arrived and later Martial, and Shaw. Dele Alli might not be in the best form, but how much is that due to the manager not believing in him at all? With Mourinho, it's often a self-fulfilling prophecy that he creates for himself. At United in his final season, 'my defence is terrible, I need new players'...so then the defence does badly because it's had its confidence shot by the manager.
 
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Cloud7 said:
Give him the best CB pairing in the world, arguably better pairings than any that exist right now, on paper and he would win league titles? How is that a sign of tactics that still work? That's like saying if you put De Bruyne behind Ronaldo with Sane and Sancho on the wings that your tactics work and you will win league titles. If you have better players than everyone else you're more likely to win titles. It doesn't mean your tactics are viable.
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To be fair... don’t most managers only win with a collection of the worlds’ best players?
 
Cloud7 said:
Give him the best CB pairing in the world, arguably better pairings than any that exist right now, on paper and he would win league titles? How is that a sign of tactics that still work? That's like saying if you put De Bruyne behind Ronaldo with Sane and Sancho on the wings that your tactics work and you will win league titles. If you have better players than everyone else you're more likely to win titles. It doesn't mean your tactics are viable.
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Sounds remarkably like Pep Guardiola.
 

As soon as Tottenham go 1-0 up, they instantly try and see out matches. Absolutely mind numbingly boring (and inefficient) football tactics from Mourinho.
 
Mourinho being a pragmatist is a myth. Ever since his Madrid days and his duels with Guardiola, Mourinho has been on a mission against 'progressive ideas'. He has not made any attempt to adapt. He is a cynic who trying to be as contrarian as possible. His football is governed by fear. Winning is not enough to justify it. Not winning just slowly kills the club by robbing the fans of any joy.
 
I feel no sympathy for Spurs fans, they knew who they were getting into bed with, and even with many fanbases telling them how it would go, plenty are still cheerleading for Jose. Baffling.
 
Maluco said:
His tactics still work I think. They just don’t work with Jones/Smalling or Dier/Sanchez.

Give him back Samuel/Lúcio, Terry/Carvalho or Pepe/Ramos, and he would still be winning league titles.

It’s an unpopular opinion because he is nasty and his football is unattractive, but the difference between being able to close out games and not make mistakes is right there.
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Give any half decent team Pepe/Ramos or Terry/Carvalho and they would have a pretty decent chance of winning title too! Give them messi and Ronaldo too just to make sure!
 
Judas said:
I feel no sympathy for Spurs fans, they knew who they were getting into bed with, and even with many fanbases telling them how it would go, plenty are still cheerleading for Jose. Baffling.
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None whatsoever. We have seen it with the spurs fan on here who are fully behind him, think they have the better squad.

He may win the league cup and then call it his biggest achievement because Spurs never win trophies and what not.
 
romufc said:
None whatsoever. We have seen it with the spurs fan on here who are fully behind him, think they have the better squad.

He may win the league cup and then call it his biggest achievement because Spurs never win trophies and what not.
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100% the script writes itself if they beat City. He'll go on about how Spurs don't know how to win trophies, and he finally brought them success, putting the club down and talking himself up. We've seen it countless times. It's much funnier to watch when it's not happening at your own club.
 
Mindhunter said:
I am going with a contrarian viewpoint here. I just think they were extremely unlucky to not win today. They created some chances that should really have been buried. Son's finishing let him down today although he hit the woodwork and was unlucky not to score.

Jose is a pragmatic defense first manager and it is clear that he doesn't coach his teams to take risks when they are ahead but today isn't one of those days where he shut up shop. I do enjoy the schadenfreude though.
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I agree to an extent but surrendering the possession to teams these days in the way Mourinho keeps doing in the 2nd half is never a good idea.

One thing in their favor, they usually do start games strongly which is why they're still in a good position right now.
 
Judas said:
100% the script writes itself if they beat City. He'll go on about how Spurs don't know how to win trophies, and he finally brought them success, putting the club down and talking himself up. We've seen it countless times. It's much funnier to watch when it's not happening at your own club.
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Football heritage 2.0
 
Judas said:
100% the script writes itself if they beat City. He'll go on about how Spurs don't know how to win trophies, and he finally brought them success, putting the club down and talking himself up. We've seen it countless times. It's much funnier to watch when it's not happening at your own club.
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100%. You can see there are signs of a Jose breakdown coming. He has now started to have some words against other managers in his press conferences.

Tbh Spurs fans cannot complain at the moment, they just want a trophy over anything else, so surely they should be happy with a league cup and even if that means not getting top 4.
 
Zoo said:
https://thefightingcock.co.uk/forum/threads/jose-mourinho.33910/page-944

Deja vu
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Full on deja vu

Seems the majority have turned on him now, there's a part of me that actually feels sorry for them when they talk about the lack of any enjoyment at all when watching the games.

The PL keeping going during lockdown has been a shard of light for a lot of people, can't imagine how I'd feel now watching United if Captain Buzzkill was still our manager.

It also makes me laugh the whole 'we missed chances' thing, as though that excuses the manager - the assumption there seems to be that the best teams put away every single chance, which is obviously bollocks.

The best managed teams create lots of chances hence giving themselves a much better chance overall of winning, and affords them the opportunity to not have to put every single one away.

With Jose we were reliant on putting away every shot we got to stand a chance of winning, as the opportunities were so few and far between. Sounds like it's the case again with Spurs.
 
They will finish 7th/8th, they ar enot better than what´s ahead of them and a couple of teams like Soouthmapton and if Lampard kicks on can easily get ahead of him I think too. Will be interesting to see at what tim he gets the sack.

No doubt he will get a nice paycheck sit on it for ayear and there will be a club who will try their luck again. He´s a dinosaur who you really watch when he´s another teams because after all he´s the special one. But serious brain damage is in the air if he´s about to become your team´s manager. If he was a bit humble, you would appreciate him perhaps but he´s the kind of granpa who will always murmur something and be bitter till the end of his life, perhaps a rich granpa but with serious mental issues.
 
3 of their next 6 league games are against Liverpool, Chelsea and City. This could be interesting.
 
They really need to win that League Cup or this will be for nothing

Spurs over the years are usually one of the more entertaining sides have gone to the most dour sides in the league
 
Adisa said:
Mourinho being a pragmatist is a myth. Ever since his Madrid days and his duels with Guardiola, Mourinho has been on a mission against 'progressive ideas'. He has not made any attempt to adapt. He is a cynic who trying to be as contrarian as possible. His football is governed by fear. Winning is not enough to justify it. Not winning just slowly kills the club by robbing the fans of any joy.
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Spot on, I have been arguing this for years. He's a *********** now but of the worst kind.
 
Wumminator said:
To be fair... don’t most managers only win with a collection of the worlds’ best players?
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Someone did a thread on this a while back, but no, there have been a fair few examples of managers winning with teams that weren't the absolute best around.
 
Judas said:
100% the script writes itself if they beat City. He'll go on about how Spurs don't know how to win trophies, and he finally brought them success, putting the club down and talking himself up. We've seen it countless times. It's much funnier to watch when it's not happening at your own club.
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I loved the fact that Jose came back to the league. It's an absolute nightmare having him as your manager, and my worst memories as a United fan, but seeing him doing the same thing to another club is hilarious.
 
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