Because i reckon there isn't as many shiit DoF's running around as there is managers.
It's not the same as appointing managers.
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Jose Mourinho needs two more transfer windows, say senior Man Utd figures
- Thread starter Drifter
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Because i reckon there isn't as many shiit DoF's running around as there is managers.
It's not the same as appointing managers.
This will clearly not happen, at least not as long as Mourinho is here - and that's for the best. The manager should have a complete autonomy on the sporting side.
DoF or not a new manager isnt always going to like the players left behind and will want to bring in his own players. If you want a manager to work with what they're given thats the chairmans job to state no need for a DoF.
The idea that the DoF provides seamless handovers between managers is nonsense. For one there just aren't many top managers similar enough that allow teams to stringently stick to a model.
Unless you believe in them acting as a quality control but then again every manager will judge differently so all you're saying is that they should be overruled.
Jose needs more support under him, not above him.
He should have full control and he will thrive, DoF is a nice idea, but clubs working with that structure don't tend to make incredible signings anyway and usually are more miss than hit.
He should have full control and he will thrive, DoF is a nice idea, but clubs working with that structure don't tend to make incredible signings anyway and usually are more miss than hit.
Sevilla with Monci is clearly a miss...
We have to appoint a DoF asap, to help us negotiate players instead of relying on agents like Mendes and Raiola. A Director of Football would support the first team, but also the reserve and the Academy on reaching the goals. Of course Mourinho would still be the main man, but a DoF gives us continuity in our policy.
I don't want to sack managers every 2 years and having every summer 5 to 8 new players and getting the excuses of "these are not the managers choice".
The DoF will say, ok let's play 4-2-3-1 and 4-1-4-1. Our policy is to play wingers or not, holding midfielder or not etc. It'll avoid a new Van Gaal coming in 2 years saying I want to switch to 3-5-2, I need 10 new players.
Moyes should have bought new players when Van Gaal shouldn't have sold the likes of Welbeck, Chicha and Evans.
But this should have been done by Woody, but he is/was clearly not good enough to judge the football side of Manchester United, so a DoF would be welcomed
This thread is pure gold 
How so?This thread is pure gold
His struggles this season show the importance of real depth for competition and back up.
This exchange just really gets me
..and then the guy who thinks Bobby Charlton is your DoF and points to "Animal Farm" as proof why DoF and manager can't work together
Another thing is that most transfers are set up way before the window opens, in well run clubs anyway, so the question is does the manager have the energy and time required to focus on transfers at the business end of the season when he is competing for trophies or battling to survive? Take Dortmund signing Dembele for example, the deal was sealed just after the end of the season which allowed Dortmund to steal the march on potential rivals.
I think you can make an argument either way because just as there are top DoFs there are also poor ones and vise versa which also applies to management, our struggles are a direct result of two poor managerial appointments but I'm yet to see anyone advocating for the abolishment of the manager! I think the seemingly radarless recruitment we have witnessed since SAF retired could have been avoided if we had a very good DOF in place, Moyes wouldn't have made it past the gate for example, a real football man could have given Spurs a free run to Van Gaal's signature and that is before we get to player recruitment.
I can see your pointThis exchange just really gets me
..and then the guy who thinks Bobby Charlton is your DoF and points to "Animal Farm" as proof why DoF and manager can't work together
EDIT: who the heck thinks Bobby Charlton is our DoF?
This exchange just really gets me
..and then the guy who thinks Bobby Charlton is your DoF and points to "Animal Farm" as proof why DoF and manager can't work together
I can see your point
EDIT: who the heck thinks Bobby Charlton is our DoF?
A certain Mr @Hugh Jass .. Probably thinks DoF is appointed to fight with the manager.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Director_of_football
Ok hes maybe not a full DoF, but he does play a role and that is how it should be. He lets mourinho get on with the job and doesnt interfere with him.
Wikipedia as a source for the role of the DoF? Charlton acting similar to a Wikipedia DoF?
Christ on a bike! That's good LOL stuff!
Christ on a bike! That's good LOL stuff!
In complete agreement mate. Like the England rugby team the senior brass have proven they couldnt organize a piss up in a brewery. Now in Eddie Jones and Jose Mourinho theyve made a sensible appointment who will do their job for them in terms of playing identity, long term strategy and development. No doubt when they leave its back to incompetence. What happened after Clive Woodward and Fergie left is almost identicle.... they were the club and everything left with them.
Now may not be the time but a pure football man needs to be brought in to plan the succession to help gurantee continuity of success or even plan the most efficient way to turn around under performance. Long term United need a playing identity and a strategy of manager and player recruitment needs to be built towards that. Unless we bank on Mou being here for 20 years and tearing things up.
This exchange just really gets me
..and then the guy who thinks Bobby Charlton is your DoF and points to "Animal Farm" as proof why DoF and manager can't work together
surreal isnt it. Essentially Woody is rubbish and we need some shrewd footballing expertise to guide the club. But tbf who takes that decision?
Essentially Woody is rubbish and we need some shrewd footballing expertise to guide the club. But tbf who takes that decision?
I thought the exchange was so funny because it's so true.. it really is a complicated matter.
Which would be my point: welcome to normality. Utd fans thought all these years they were experiencing the rule with SAF when in fact they were experiencing the exception. Now they've got it all backwards, understandably.
This exchange just really gets me
..and then the guy who thinks Bobby Charlton is your DoF and points to "Animal Farm" as proof why DoF and manager can't work together
we need to appoint someone competent that will appoint a competent DoF so the can appoint a competent Manager so we can finally get competent players.
True true. We were the exception not the rule as far as successful clubs go. The buck stops with the Glazers and if none of them understands the issue then we better hope Jose gives us 5-10 years of bliss. Systemic weaknesses in an organization can take years to sort out because senior management and owners tend not to fire themselves ;-) another aspect of incompetence
Personally I think you'll be just fine.
Too much money being thrown at the problem to not work out sooner or later, some of it is bound to stick soon.
Yep. It's already sticking too. Pogba and Mkhitaryan are without a doubt world class players.
Because a DoF appointment is more like appointing an executive for a corporation say a finance director, you just look at their CV. A manager, on the hand, is a more complex appointment because chances are they fail to match the results that made you look up in the first place. But the most important fact is that having a DoF makes a team less vulnerable to the adverse effects of managerial turnover - a club like Bayern won't have to tear up their recruitment plans because Ancelotti has left but if we sack Mourinho in March we will spend the whole summer playing catch up.
Throw 3/4 of a billion at it and keep rolling the dice. Successful sport management is simple innit.
I kind of think so too. But if Jose does well and then decides to go after 4 seasons..... you just hope they dont appoint whoever happens to be free at that time.
José has never lasted 4 seasons anywhere so that's quite an optimistic outlook already
I genuinely consider us to be different. Provided he and his fam enjoy Manchester he had the perfect canvas to fulfil his desires and become a truly legendary manager. And he is going to need 2-3 seasons to start making things rock and roll. Quitting after 3 seasons will be most likely be judged a massive failure unless he wins the Prem next season and the CL the season after.
So yes I am optimistic he is willing to give us 5.
But what happens if the DoF is shit.
The proponents of a DoF model make two or three false assumptions:
1. The DoF will undoubtedly be great at their job
2. That transfers are currently solely the responsibility of the manager
3. That the manager doesn't have enough support/Woodward isn't up to making transfers.
Of course he did, inter are not a british club.
Btw, mourinho almost always got what he wanted, at least in broad terms. Only Abramovich went over his head. He is a very smart, charismatic man who knows how to get his bosses to give him what he wants.
PS mourinho's signing at inter was quaresma. The rest was Oriali, though of course mourinho had a say in identifying the targets, the positions if not the players[other example, he wanted deco. Oriali said no to deco and looked for another #10. Found Sneijder, mourinho was ok with him, they signed him. Granted by that point it was either sneijder or no one)
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Like other poster already said. Mourinho previously sought for bigger challenge after his initial success (Porto, Inter), while at clubs with trigger happy president, owner (Chelsea, Real Madrid). His 3 year result with Madrid can't get him sacked here. His 2 sackings at Chelsea is early here considering how much time Moyes and LVG was given to turn their fate around until it's mathematically impossible for CL football (LVG was still given right to work with club transfers until his last day. LVG stalled Renato Sanchez deal and Bayern took the chance). Not to say whenever there is a player vs manager, this club is more likely backing the manager while it's not the same with Real Madrid and Chelsea. In a sense, United is ideal big club for Mourinho's long term dynasty if he can plant his root.
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So then you chop and change whenever you replace the manager OR the director of football.
Mourinho never lasted more then 4 seasons. However its also true that the clubs that hired him are hardly known for keeping their managers there either. Real are Real. Chelsea is the sort of club whose owner just loves messing with things and Moratti's Inter was a laughing joke. Prior to United Mou has only managed 1 proper club and that was Porto
There's not really anywhere else for him to go is there?
Perez would probably take him back after Zidane but would he want to? I think that job damn near broke him.
I don't think Bayern would touch him with a barge pole and I don't think he will have much interest in Germany anyway.
Too early for the Portuguese job.
He likes England and loves the Premier League, even if he's not yet settled in Manchester.
I can't see him going back to Italy. Perhaps Juventus is the only feasible club I could see him leaving us for though.
Nope. Not a chance.