Jose Mourinho | 2017/18 Assessments | Poll Added

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I’d be far more inclined to put up with all of his bullshit if we were playing the type of football that justifies nearly £300 million of expenditure since he arrived last summer.
 
I’d be far more inclined to put up with all of his bullshit if we were playing the type of football that justifies nearly £300 million of expenditure since he arrived last summer.

Juventus are the biggest spenders in Serie A, but they are a classical italian team. Napoli have modest spending but play a positional based game. LVG spent loads of money but he still played a possession based system that could only get 1 shot on target every game.

The style of football the team plays is based on the profile of players, the management philosophy, the club direction (Director of football) etc.

Guardiola prefers agile midfielders that are quick to release the ball and can move into the half spaces. Mourinho prefers physical midfielders that can run into space and deliver incisive passes into the final third.

Money spent is very rarely correlated with teh type of football. Money spent only correlated with winning over the long term.
 
I’d be far more inclined to put up with all of his bullshit if we were playing the type of football that justifies nearly £300 million of expenditure since he arrived last summer.

As if 300m is enough to build you an elite level team in today's market.

City have a different level of financial muscle to United and it show's.
 
Firstly, are you talking about £300m that PSG spent on 2 players in one summer? £300m is the new £100m.....so stop making it look like Jose spent a fortune

No one is making excuses. What a manager has spent also have a direct relationship with what he inherited when taking the job.

City had a much better squad than United when Pep/José arrived last year. Yet, Pep has spent more money than Jose and you automatically expect United to have a better squad than City?

In spite of this, it was Jose that won trophies last season and Pep had nothing to show for it. This summer, Pep outspent Jose yet again and that & unlucky injury curse is the difference between those clubs.

I wouldn’t say much better, the teams finished on identical points and we regularly beat them under LVG
 
As if 300m is enough to build you an elite level team in today's market.

City have a different level of financial muscle to United and it show's.
It's not like City went and signed Messi or Neymar. Their best player, KDB, cost about as much as we paid for di Maria, and Gabriel Jesus a fraction of Lukaku's price. They are simply spending more wisely and investing in young, exciting talents, and it's finally starting to pay off.
 
I may be wrong but next season could be Jose's actual 2nd season and we could actually start playing some beautiful counter-attacking football. It would be a shame if Jose is not able to win a EPL or CL with us.
 
I may be wrong but next season could be Jose's actual 2nd season and we could actually start playing some beautiful counter-attacking football. It would be a shame if Jose is not able to win a EPL or CL with us.

He’ll get there if backed by the fans and more importantly the board.
 
It's not like City went and signed Messi or Neymar. Their best player, KDB, cost about as much as we paid for di Maria, and Gabriel Jesus a fraction of Lukaku's price. They are simply spending more wisely and investing in young, exciting talents, and it's finally starting to pay off.

City invested massively year after year while we were putting funds towards debt repayments and replacing Ronaldo/Scholes/Rio with Young/Cleverly/Smalling.

Their best players Aguero/Silva/Yaya/Kompany cost less than 100m total, how much do you think that group would cost in today's market? A 23 year old Aguero would be worth more than 100m alone.

Mourinho didn't sign Di Maria and as I said in a previous post he's not responsible for the 3 years of transfer failings before he arrived but seems to be baring the brunt of criticism/frustation from it.

Let's not act as if City investment is wise and unheard of, they went out and spend massively on the best players in the market.

Guardiola arrives at the club and decides Joe Hart isn't good enough so loans him to Italy while subsidising his wages and spends £20m on Bravo + 100k pw. After 1 failed season he spends another 40m on Ederson and sticks him on 100kpw. All told that's £60m in transfer fee's 200k pw in wages + whatever Joe Hart get's subsidised all while spending another 200m the same summer.

No other team in the premier league can compete with that type of financial muscle, I don't even think United could bin Bravo after 1 poor season and add more goalkeeper fees to the age bill with Hart still available. If Guardiola was at Arsenal/Spurs/Liverpool he'd be stuck with Hart and spend whatever ££ they have available elsewhere.
 
He’ll get there if backed by the fans and more importantly the board.
I feel match going fans will back him once we again start beating the so called smaller teams convincingly. All he needs to make sure is not turn the place toxic. this is why as long as he beats the smaller teams in a convincing fashion and goes toe to toe with big teams at Old trafford, he will be fine for this season. If he finishes outside top 4, he will unfortunately be sacked. If he finishes in top 3 with 80 plus points , scoring 75 plus goals in the league, majority will give him one more season and so would the board.
 
There are no excuses here....
Judge him when he actually fails, not when the media tell you he has failed.

Remove the equivalent of what United have missed in key players in City, Spurs, etc and tell me where they would be on the table.

That we are 2nd on the table playing only 2 central midfielders for the past 2 months is a testament to Jose’s management acumen.

It seems most of you have forgotten when LVG’s team especially his 2nd season. After GW11, we were 8th on the table and 10 points below the league leaders. We only managed to cop 15 points from 10 league games.

Seeing as though you ask ,
Its well documented that Pep requires attacking fullbacks to implement his system to the max. Mendy, a key purchase for a guardiola system is out, aguero, a key player missed a few games earlier on. Kompany who was a key player , but now due to the system, seems a distant memory.

These 3 , but Im mainly referring to aguero & Mendy , were out for the Chelsea away game, did citeh soil themselves at the prospect ? No, they totally bossed it. Delph played lb, with no visible change in playing style.

Here's another one for you, nobody had more injuries than lvg, yet he was able to get some decent results by utilising players like paddy McNair & Tyler Blackett. I'm gonna go out on a limb here, I bet you weren't so understanding then eh ? Or were you ?Fair play if you was.
 
started off great and i was really pleased with him, now i couldnt care less if he wants out to PSG, in fact i hope he does go there in the summer. I can see why sir bobby didnt want him here
 
This is why I can see him leaving in summer, all the soundings coming from his camp are completely off. He's openly flirting with PSG and stating he doesn't feel like he's backed well enough in the transfer market, absolutely ridiculous given the amount of money he's already been given.

He wanted Griezmann and Perisic, got neither. Pep is able to spend 60m on goalkeepers and 100m on fbs. Don't compare him with City if he can't compete with them.
 
As if 300m is enough to build you an elite level team in today's market.

City have a different level of financial muscle to United and it show's.

Nobody in the world has spent more than United over the last four years.

We’ve spent over £600 million since SAF retired which is more than enough to expect the team to be able to string more than two fecking passes together and look like a cohesive attacking team.
 
He wanted Griezmann and Perisic, got neither. Pep is able to spend 60m on goalkeepers and 100m on fbs. Don't compare him with City if he can't compete with them.

Those two players wouldn’t have made any difference when he deploys “park the bus” tactics at every given opportunity.
 
Those two players wouldn’t have made any difference when he deploys “park the bus” tactics at every given opportunity.

Antoine Griezmann who is the heart and soul of a Diego Simeone team that parks the bus against Eibar and Levante wouldnt thrive under Jose Mourinho.

I think this football thing might not be your expertise.
 
He wanted Griezmann and Perisic, got neither. Pep is able to spend 60m on goalkeepers and 100m on fbs. Don't compare him with City if he can't compete with them.

That goes both ways. Mourinho broke at the time the world transfer record spending 89m on a midfielder. He also got to spend 70m or so on Lukaku. The Griezmann deal seemingly broke down because the player changed his mind as opposed to financial limitations. If it went through I'm sure we'd have spent another 70-80m or so on top.

I think Pep has spent about 100m more? That's quite a lot and can make a difference, but it doesn't have to make the world of difference. Money =/= success. Money to buy the right players integrated into the team with an implemented coaching strategy is what breeds success. In terms of spending, I find it strange that United and City are being compared like for like. It's very rare that teams will spend exactly the same amounts when competing for trophies. The way I see it personally is that both Jose and Pep have spent in the same ballpark, and have spent enough each for finances not to be a limiting factor in their results.
 
He just hasn’t adapted over the last few years. The game has moved on a fair bit. Seems like as the game evolves more he gets even more defensive. One thing I’ve read about Mourinho is that he doesn’t really coach attacking play, he just sort of lets the attacking players play off the cuff. I think it’s clear as day really that we need some genuine attacking coaching. We won’t though, Mourinho is extremely rigid with his back room staff and I’m not sure he’d trust anyone to come in and help the attacking side of our game.
 
That goes both ways. Mourinho broke at the time the world transfer record spending 89m on a midfielder. He also got to spend 70m or so on Lukaku. The Griezmann deal seemingly broke down because the player changed his mind as opposed to financial limitations. If it went through I'm sure we'd have spent another 70-80m or so on top.

I think Pep has spent about 100m more? That's quite a lot and can make a difference, but it doesn't have to make the world of difference. Money =/= success. Money to buy the right players integrated into the team with an implemented coaching strategy is what breeds success. In terms of spending, I find it strange that United and City are being compared like for like. It's very rare that teams will spend exactly the same amounts when competing for trophies. The way I see it personally is that both Jose and Pep have spent in the same ballpark, and have spent enough each for finances not to be a limiting factor in their results.

Its quite simple. £100m will get you two good players or one very good player. Can you say that Mourinho is a better coach than Guardiola to a degree that he can make up for that? I would say no. If anything Mourinho and Guardiola are on a similar level as coaches so that extra £100m can be the difference between 1st and 2nd place.

Finances are NOT a limiting factor in results for us, because we are 2nd place and have had a fantastic first 10 games to the season. However, it will be a limiting factor in competing domestically because we can't deal with injuries as well as them and have less options off the bench.
 
Nobody in the world has spent more than United over the last four years.

We’ve spent over £600 million since SAF retired which is more than enough to expect the team to be able to string more than two fecking passes together and look like a cohesive attacking team.

Our spending after SAF retired is a direct result of the lack of investment we saw from when the Glazers arrived until SAF retired. We had a lower net spend than Stoke and Scholes/Rio/Ronaldo got replaced with Cleverly/Smalling and Young.
During the time when we were spending all our money on debt repayments and there was "no value in the market" City got Aguero/Silva/Yaya/Kompany for less than 100m, how much do you think that group would cost in today's market?


Those two players wouldn’t have made any difference when he deploys “park the bus” tactics at every given opportunity.

Griezmann is a massive upgrade on all of our attacking players and the reason Mourinho plays a more defensive strategy is because he doesn't feel we have enough ability in the team/squad to take these teams on, and he's right.

That goes both ways. Mourinho broke at the time the world transfer record spending 89m on a midfielder. He also got to spend 70m or so on Lukaku. The Griezmann deal seemingly broke down because the player changed his mind as opposed to financial limitations. If it went through I'm sure we'd have spent another 70-80m or so on top.

I think Pep has spent about 100m more? That's quite a lot and can make a difference, but it doesn't have to make the world of difference. Money =/= success. Money to buy the right players integrated into the team with an implemented coaching strategy is what breeds success. In terms of spending, I find it strange that United and City are being compared like for like. It's very rare that teams will spend exactly the same amounts when competing for trophies. The way I see it personally is that both Jose and Pep have spent in the same ballpark, and have spent enough each for finances not to be a limiting factor in their results.

Pep inherited Aguero/Silva/KDB/. 3 Players who were and still are better than anyone at United. Give Mourinho those 3 players and allow him 100m more than Pep in 2 seasons and see whose playing champagne football.
 
He wanted Griezmann and Perisic, got neither. Pep is able to spend 60m on goalkeepers and 100m on fbs. Don't compare him with City if he can't compete with them.
He didn't want Griezmann. Perisic just one signing that we didn't get. But they wouldn't make much difference, our midfield has turned into turd without Pogba.

But sure Let's pretend United didn't back him
 
City invested massively year after year while we were putting funds towards debt repayments and replacing Ronaldo/Scholes/Rio with Young/Cleverly/Smalling.

Their best players Aguero/Silva/Yaya/Kompany cost less than 100m total, how much do you think that group would cost in today's market? A 23 year old Aguero would be worth more than 100m alone.

Mourinho didn't sign Di Maria and as I said in a previous post he's not responsible for the 3 years of transfer failings before he arrived but seems to be baring the brunt of criticism/frustation from it.

Let's not act as if City investment is wise and unheard of, they went out and spend massively on the best players in the market.

Guardiola arrives at the club and decides Joe Hart isn't good enough so loans him to Italy while subsidising his wages and spends £20m on Bravo + 100k pw. After 1 failed season he spends another 40m on Ederson and sticks him on 100kpw. All told that's £60m in transfer fee's 200k pw in wages + whatever Joe Hart get's subsidised all while spending another 200m the same summer.

No other team in the premier league can compete with that type of financial muscle, I don't even think United could bin Bravo after 1 poor season and add more goalkeeper fees to the age bill with Hart still available. If Guardiola was at Arsenal/Spurs/Liverpool he'd be stuck with Hart and spend whatever ££ they have available elsewhere.

City have invested massively, that is true.

We have also invested heavily. What you describe about Bravo can be applied to Lindeloff
 
Our spending after SAF retired is a direct result of the lack of investment we saw from when the Glazers arrived until SAF retired. We had a lower net spend than Stoke and Scholes/Rio/Ronaldo got replaced with Cleverly/Smalling and Young.
During the time when we were spending all our money on debt repayments and there was "no value in the market" City got Aguero/Silva/Yaya/Kompany for less than 100m, how much do you think that group would cost in today's market?




Griezmann is a massive upgrade on all of our attacking players and the reason Mourinho plays a more defensive strategy is because he doesn't feel we have enough ability in the team/squad to take these teams on, and he's right.



Pep inherited Aguero/Silva/KDB/. 3 Players who were and still are better than anyone at United. Give Mourinho those 3 players and allow him 100m more than Pep in 2 seasons and see whose playing champagne football.

Give Mourinho KDB and he’d sell him. Wait, he already did...
 
Pep also had balls to ship away Joe Hart when we still stuck with Valencia, Smalling, Jones, Young etc... They're good squad players and all but it's not the way to move forward. We spent ~ 300m under Jose but still heavily rely upon 2-3 players's form.
 
Pep inherited Aguero/Silva/KDB/. 3 Players who were and still are better than anyone at United. Give Mourinho those 3 players and allow him 100m more than Pep in 2 seasons and see whose playing champagne football.[/QUOTE]

Debruyne is arguably better than anyone in that Chelsea side too. ....Jose sold him. None of the players you mention are typical Jose players, its debatable whether they'd even fit into his plans. Kdb certainly wouldn't be bossing his midfield, I doubt the thought would ever occur to him to play him there, its just not his style. That's what is confusing people. Managers use players in different ways & there's no way citehs current players would look as good under Jose's tutelage. Horses for courses. We like basketball sized players.
 
He didn't want Griezmann. Perisic just one signing that we didn't get. But they wouldn't make much difference, our midfield has turned into turd without Pogba.

But sure Let's pretend United didn't back him

How do you know Mourinho didn't want Griezmann? All of the reports from both England and Spain paint a different picture and it seems as if he only stayed because of the transfer ban.

I never said he wasn't backed, strawman arguments are very poor. Are you purposely ignoring the points i'm making about the respective squads they both inherited? Aguero/Silva/KDB are on a different level to anyone we have available and then there's Sterling/Sane etc who are far better than Mata/Lingard.

City have invested massively, that is true.

We have also invested heavily. What you describe about Bravo can be applied to Lindeloff

City have invested massively for a longer period of time and are still reaping the benefits of signings made almost a decade ago I.E Aguero/Silva. Pep inherited a far superior squad to Mourinho and it shows.

City have invested far more in CBs than we have over the past 5 seasons and I'll give Lindelof some time before I put him in the same bracket as Di Michellis/Mangala.

Give Mourinho KDB and he’d sell him. Wait, he already did...

Because Pep would never sell a quality player, Sanchez says hi.
 
Pep also had balls to ship away Joe Hart when we still stuck with Valencia, Smalling, Jones, Young etc... They're good squad players and all but it's not the way to move forward. We spent ~ 300m under Jose but still heavily rely upon 2-3 players's form.

Mourinho also had the "balls" to ship away Rooney. Much harder to sell over someone like Joe Hart. Let's not forget deadwood like Schweinsteiger who everyone here seemed to have a hardon for.

The fact is, Pep had a starting point with Man City with talents like Agüero, De Bruyne, Silva, Fernandinho, Sterling etc. This was a team that was ready to compete way before Pep was in charge and had done several years before with Pellegrini. Mourinho's starting point was a team that's finished 7th, 4th and 5th that needs a huge rebuild. Why is this so hard to understand?
 
Pep inherited Aguero/Silva/KDB/. 3 Players who were and still are better than anyone at United. Give Mourinho those 3 players and allow him 100m more than Pep in 2 seasons and see whose playing champagne football.

Debruyne is arguably better than anyone in that Chelsea side too. ....Jose sold him. None of the players you mention are typical Jose players, its debatable whether they'd even fit into his plans. Kdb certainly wouldn't be bossing his midfield, I doubt the thought would ever occur to him to play him there, its just not his style. That's what is confusing people. Managers use players in different ways & there's no way citehs current players would look as good under Jose's tutelage. Horses for courses. We like basketball sized players.[/QUOTE]

I'm not confused thanks it's really not difficult to look at the respective squads and see that Pep has much more talent at his disposal. Honestly if you asked a neutral fan if they could have City's squad or United's do you think anyone would pick us?
 
I’d be far more inclined to put up with all of his bullshit if we were playing the type of football that justifies nearly £300 million of expenditure since he arrived last summer.

£300m lol. Pennies. City have spent £130m on three fullbacks in case that news hasn't reached you in 1998 yet!
 
Nobody in the world has spent more than United over the last four years.

We’ve spent over £600 million since SAF retired which is more than enough to expect the team to be able to string more than two fecking passes together and look like a cohesive attacking team.

Ok Let us review our buys then

Moyes Era

Fellaini- Average to decent player, will not start in any big clubs but is still here.
Mata- Could never replicate his chelsea form. Good squad member. Can't see him starting every game in any title winning teams.

LVG Era

Herrera- Decent, who is massively overrated by us fans
Shaw- Injury has eaten him
Rojo- Decent squad player
Di Maria- Our biggest disappointment
Blind- Same as Rojo
Falcao- DUD
Valdes-DUD
Depay- DUD
Darmian- Bang average
Schneiderlin- Disappointed
Romero- Great back up goalie
Schweinsteiger- DUD
Martial- Great buy, but a long way to go.

Jose Era

Bailly- Top personality and defender
Ibra- Great buy
Mkhi- Average
Pogba- Great buy, probably our best buy since sir alex retired
Lukaku- Great buy
Matic- Top buy
Lindelof- Jury still out

SO bar Martial, Pogba, Ibra, Lukaku Bailly and MATIC, tell me who were really good enough. Just because we spent more than 600 millions means nothing. LvG wasted one full transfer window by adding some DUDS. Also, had sir alex spent more money during his time and not let Chelsea steal Hazard and City steal Aguero and Silva, we would not have to spent this much crazy money.

Jose has been the only manager who has somewhat gone and bought some proper footballers, other than that all we have to show for is how much we have spent? This is what poor planning leads too and I blame the board for it.
 
Mourinho also had the "balls" to ship away Rooney. Much harder to sell over someone like Joe Hart. Let's not forget deadwood like Schweinsteiger who everyone here seemed to have a hardon for.

The fact is, Pep had a starting point with Man City with talents like Agüero, De Bruyne, Silva, Fernandinho, Sterling etc. This was a team that was ready to compete way before Pep was in charge and had done several years before with Pellegrini. Mourinho's starting point was a team that's finished 7th, 4th and 5th that needs a huge rebuild. Why is this so hard to understand?

Exactly.

I have no idea what seems to be so difficult to grasp about this. It seems to always be countered with "but we've spent money too".
 
Its quite simple. £100m will get you two good players or one very good player. Can you say that Mourinho is a better coach than Guardiola to a degree that he can make up for that? I would say no. If anything Mourinho and Guardiola are on a similar level as coaches so that extra £100m can be the difference between 1st and 2nd place.

Finances are NOT a limiting factor in results for us, because we are 2nd place and have had a fantastic first 10 games to the season. However, it will be a limiting factor in competing domestically because we can't deal with injuries as well as them and have less options off the bench.

The problem here is that you're equating value with money spent. I can assure you both City and United have overspent on many of their players.

There's so many other factors that can be the difference between 1st and 2nd including coaching, youth development, injury record, style and quite frankly luck in some cases.
 
£300m lol. Pennies. City have spent £130m on three fullbacks in case that news hasn't reached you in 1998 yet!

£300 million is hardly pennies ffs! What has 1998 got to do with anything? The world record fee back then was £21 million. Nobody was spending >£100 million a year back then so i don’t get your point at all.
 
I find it strange that people keep mentioning our lack of spending. We have spent second most to Man City. That has not been the problem. Rather what we have bought you can certainly question, but a bigger problem would be developing what we have. If you have to buy new players all the time it gets very difficult to improve.

We got a squad with quality no doubt. We can play well and have done it this season.
 
I feel match going fans will back him once we again start beating the so called smaller teams convincingly. All he needs to make sure is not turn the place toxic. this is why as long as he beats the smaller teams in a convincing fashion and goes toe to toe with big teams at Old trafford, he will be fine for this season. If he finishes outside top 4, he will unfortunately be sacked. If he finishes in top 3 with 80 plus points , scoring 75 plus goals in the league, majority will give him one more season and so would the board.

Can't argue with this.
 
What we need now is to improve the way we attack. Newcastle at home a perfect game for that. I hope we start with tempo and got a clear plan how we should open them up. Benitez will defend very deep and Mourinho should know that based on the games they had back in the days. It will be a test for our attack no doubt, but a good one that we should be able to deal with.
 
Mourinho also had the "balls" to ship away Rooney. Much harder to sell over someone like Joe Hart. Let's not forget deadwood like Schweinsteiger who everyone here seemed to have a hardon for.

The fact is, Pep had a starting point with Man City with talents like Agüero, De Bruyne, Silva, Fernandinho, Sterling etc. This was a team that was ready to compete way before Pep was in charge and had done several years before with Pellegrini. Mourinho's starting point was a team that's finished 7th, 4th and 5th that needs a huge rebuild. Why is this so hard to understand?

City's squad needed a lot of work, too. Now that they're good (partly due to Guardiola's input), there is a tendency for Mourinho's supporters to pretend that their squad was far greater than it was - essentially in order to justify the shit we're regularly served.

Last summer, City's midfield option were Fernandinho, Fernando and an increasingly finished Toure. Sagna, Zabaelta, Clichy and Kolarov were nowhere near the players they once were. They had no real wingers outside of a patchy Raheem Sterling, their goalkeeper (Hart) was a dud that didn't fit the mould and their only half decent centre half (Kompany) was, and still is, perennially injured.

Aguero, Silva and De Bruyne are great, but they were star players in a very underwhelming squad of players. I was quite vocal about this, I remember, because the quality of City's squad was always (to me) significantly inflated.

During Guardiola's time at City he has sought to rectify the goalkeeping issue. He is getting more out of Otamendi and attempted to replace Kompany with Stones. He has completely turned over the full back positions - and still isn't done there. He's also supplemented his good attacking options with quality, young attacking players (Jesus, Sane, Silva). City's squad needed rebuilding in just as many, if not more, positions that we did.
 
I may be wrong but next season could be Jose's actual 2nd season and we could actually start playing some beautiful counter-attacking football. It would be a shame if Jose is not able to win a EPL or CL with us.

That what I was thinking. Jose didn't see it coming when he witnessed City's performance this season so he may have something in minds that could stop City from turning the league into the one-horse race next season. His top priority is to target 4 top spots for Champions League this season and perhaps an FA trophy and make a good run in the Champions League. It would give Jose an edge to push United to beyond its limit. in the first 5 games where we thrashed team easily, Mkhi was the king of an assist, he had 5 assists in 3 games which are impressive

City has sorted them out and we didn't.


Not to mention that our 30% of the squad will be leaving because of their contract expiring in 2018, like Zlatan, Carrick, Fellaini, Luke Shaw, Herrea, Mata, Young and Blind so we'd be left with no left fullback and short in CMs supply. I think he'll overhaul the squad and replace them with highly rated quality players.

Last Summer we offered Inter Milan a 40m for Perisic and intend to buy out Griezmann's release clause but it didn't happen. We still hold available funds for wingers and Griezmann, we'll be likely to spend 200m on new two CMs, RBs and LBs and maybe squad players for LBs and RBs. It's not much, we did the same thing in 2014 where we broke new record of spending 200 million euro in summer 2014 so we are looking at more than extra 200m next summer on top of available funds we secured last summer and didn't spend it, I think it will be equivalent to 2014 spending based on revenue ratio.

I believe we'd be a lot stronger next season than it is now and install counter-attacking in our system successfully.
 
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