If this is true then its only good thing he did yesterday
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Jose Mourinho | 2017/18 Assessments | Poll Added
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If this is true then its only good thing he did yesterday
Why you bringing Fergie into this? Lille was a group stage game.
That Leverkusen team knocked out Liverpool and Madrid only beat them by one goal. They nearly did the treble. Also we should have beaten them. We missed chances.
Under Fergie we had a few dodgy results, but it was more down to luck than playing like cowards. Even against Porto, Scholes had a perfectly good goal disallowed and then they score in last min.
No sane person is going to tell me Fergie would have approached the game like Jose did yesterday. The teamtalk probably would have been it’s Sevilla lads.
Jose isn’t getting battered because of the result, he is getting battered due to the cowardly tactics and approach in both games.
It was my plan.
I wholeheartedly agree with you, I have a gut feeling that he won't adapt and that he might already be over the hill. I have had the same feeling with LVG and in both cases I really couldn't tell until they entered the building and spent a little bit of time with the team, so I still have a positive opinion on both appointments, they both made sense. But for me something is telling, they have both been able to make the team click but for some reason they both went away from it, they put a lot more value in what the opposition could do to their team than what their team could do to the opposition, that's a really bad mentality at this level and it only ends badly.
A team like United need to always play to its strength because that's the one thing that you always control, that's how you gain regularity at the highest level. Of course you can sometimes adapt and play negatively, that's what you do if you have to face a Messi, Ronaldo or Robben at their best because that's a matter of survival but you can't do that against Vasquez, Dolberg(even if it worked) and I don't know who else.
Things will work out fine, it's clear as day to see that the midfield is in need of major recruitment. The truth is the team is not good enough, and to be second, is an improvement, the performance will only improve when the midfield get's sorted and unfortunately, the team does not have a footballing brain, someone to control and dictate the play, jose was hoping pogba could do the job, but that has not worked out, and the the centre back pairing is also an issue as only bailly, and linderof[who will come good] are capable with the ball at their feet.
When i watch pogba i think he see's himself as a zidane, although he has talent and skill in abundance, what he lacks is the ability to move the ball up the field quickly and more often than not just hogs the ball.
The difference between him and others with his skillset is he likes to create for himself more than for others, and to compound the problem, in the premier league you do not get as much time on the ball, as you would in Italy, xabi alonso, was able to make that transition, of learning how to create the time and space to play the game to their speed, even kdb and silva, have managed it.
People have been complaining about jose playing martial, rashford in the same team,i believe if they can adjust their game slightly both would be able to feature in the future, interchanging during the game, the purchase of sanchez, is to help them make that transition, without the added pressure, as for playing luke shaw at left back and pobga in front now, that would be suicidal.
If the team did not draw the three games over the christmas / new year period, the gap between second and third would be alot bigger.
The team needs a player like mateo kovacic at real madrid, a player who gets the ball, and moves it up the field quickly, and who can also join in with attacks and a dacoure at watford, with mctomminay as the understudy, and within a year or two when matic is phased out, the midfield trio would become a major force.....
When i watch pogba i think he see's himself as a zidane, although he has talent and skill in abundance, what he lacks is the ability to move the ball up the field quickly and more often than not just hogs the ball.
The difference between him and others with his skillset is he likes to create for himself more than for others, and to compound the problem, in the premier league you do not get as much time on the ball, as you would in Italy, xabi alonso, was able to make that transition, of learning how to create the time and space to play the game to their speed, even kdb and silva, have managed it.
People have been complaining about jose playing martial, rashford in the same team,i believe if they can adjust their game slightly both would be able to feature in the future, interchanging during the game, the purchase of sanchez, is to help them make that transition, without the added pressure, as for playing luke shaw at left back and pobga in front now, that would be suicidal.
If the team did not draw the three games over the christmas / new year period, the gap between second and third would be alot bigger.
The team needs a player like mateo kovacic at real madrid, a player who gets the ball, and moves it up the field quickly, and who can also join in with attacks and a dacoure at watford, with mctomminay as the understudy, and within a year or two when matic is phased out, the midfield trio would become a major force.....
Barney Ronay is one of the better sports writers. Good post and i agree Adebesi, I'd be surprised if he lasted through to the end of next season tbh. I expect our hand will be forced before then
At that stage you worry at the damage we have to avoid before Mourinho finally leaves.
If we lose De Gea, Martial and Pogba before Jose finally leaves or/is sacked will set us back quite a few years.
That is the real concern now, how do you keep ahold of sulking and unhappy players now that you have already awarded Mourinho another contract extension
If we lose De Gea, Martial and Pogba before Jose finally leaves or/is sacked will set us back quite a few years.
That is the real concern now, how do you keep ahold of sulking and unhappy players now that you have already awarded Mourinho another contract extension
LVG had Falcao, RvP, Rooney in his squad.
My feelings exactly.
Well, that certainly is the single positive from a terrible day. The real question is if he is willing to learn from this, let us see what he does against Brighton.
I am thankful that we are on the verge of making the CL again, the idea that we will be competing in it next season, and optimistically in a better way than we did this season, is the one thing that mildly softens yesterday's blow.
I'm pretty sure that the post you are quoting was part of a discussion about the low goal tally in van Gaal's second season, when Falcao and RVP were not in the squad.
No he didn't. The discussion was regarding LVG's second season. Falcao and RvP were let go.
I still believe he can improve us and the way he sets the team up but you raise relevant points and the Ronay article makes interesting points too, whether or not Jose is driven by hatred of the beautiful game or not. I'd hope that the club makes sure that we retain our best young players (thinking mainly of Martial) regardless of the direction Jose is taking us, especially if it seems more likely that his stint will be shorter rather than longer. Whatever happens, the board needs to be long-term oriented and there is no assurance that Jose will be here after the summer or after next season.
The board can actually appoint a DoF or address the style of play with view to recruiting an elite coach for the creative side of the game. SAF was almost all-powerful at the club, but Jose is in the job a year and a half, it's not like he can shape the club from top to bottom the way he wants.
Go watch Pogba's "performance" last night. You don't even need to take the quality into account; just look at the attitude and level of effort.
This is the reason he said that he had knocked us out twice. It was nothing new for utd etc.
I think this will bring players closer to the manager as he prevents them going under the hammer.
I used to believe that he simply saw no value in playing "good" football, that he was just naturally suited to a more conservative, defensive approach and was indifferent to any demand from fans for something more.
Unfortunately it now seems (at least to me), that he takes an almost spiteful pleasure in stamping his ego and fingerprints into any success the team has, the more grotesque the performance the better; "Ha! Idiots!"
This is a problem. There's a reason why Lukaku was the best option last summer and why there's so few remarkable defenders around these days. Football has changed and the type of players his system needs just aren't out there anymore.
Unfortunately it now seems (at least to me), that he takes an almost spiteful pleasure in stamping his ego and fingerprints into any success the team has, the more grotesque the performance the better; "Ha! Idiots!"
This is a problem. There's a reason why Lukaku was the best option last summer and why there's so few remarkable defenders around these days. Football has changed and the type of players his system needs just aren't out there anymore.
Can't say I've ever understood this logic. Are football players really so fragile that they can't handle public criticism? If they play like shit they deserve to be called out on it.
I feared he might throw them under the bus, but he did the opposite and shielded them - so that gives me a great deal of hope and suggests Mourinho remains committed.
Woah , anyway, we cant be set up as underdogs in every game.
, anyway, we cant be set up as underdogs in every game.I think it's more about creating an 'us against them' mentality. If Mourinho were to leave his players exposed, the distance between manager and player widens and that never, ever ends well.
Lille never knocked us out.
Galatasaray knocked us out in what was our first appearance in the competition for 24 years, at a time when English football was at its lowest ebb, all the other leagues including the Turkish were able to compete, and we were hamstrung by the three foreigners rule.
Yes we certainly had disappointing exits under Fergie especially in the early 2000s, however nothing comparable to last night and in any case, Fergie was a serial league winner for us the whole way through, dominating the PL and generally playing great football.
The truth is that we put in many performances that were deemed cowardly in Europe under Fergie. Pundits from all angles saying he was a dinosaur and finished and then a year later when a young player matured into a first teamer and we signed a big name then he shuts everyone up.
Conte was last years genius but this year he's too defensive and out of date. Last season Pep was considered nothing but hype but this season he's the best ever.
I agree that Mourinhos defensive style doesn't suit the club but he's easily done enough so far to have another shot in the hot seat next season and as John Terry said a while ago once he has a few more of the kinds of players he likes while offloading a few more of the ones he inherited then he'll start dominating again.
Major recruitment? He has spent about 120 mill on midfielders in Pogba and Matic.
Pogba isn't even getting in the side his form has dropped so much. How much more do we keep the throwing at this shit on a stick football?
Top post, agree with every bit of it.
Of course he is better than Van Gaal but that is no standard to be compared against.
Jose's grin-and-bear-it football has been a blueprint for his whole career. He has never cared about style or attacking fluency, with a top-heavy emphasis on transitions and turnovers from a defensive spring. Front to back quickly, sneakily, stealthily - and then back to containment, concentration and positioning.
It has served him quite well throughout his career but I fear, here at OT, it will never be embraced. I thought that from the day he was hired.
But yet I want to still give him the chance to see if he can get that second or third man in midfield so he can add some vigour and tempo to our attacking transitions. I think it will make or break his slightly schizophrenic term with us so far.
It has served him quite well throughout his career but I fear, here at OT, it will never be embraced. I thought that from the day he was hired.
But yet I want to still give him the chance to see if he can get that second or third man in midfield so he can add some vigour and tempo to our attacking transitions. I think it will make or break his slightly schizophrenic term with us so far.
I think it plays on the mind when players next step up on the pitch. Imagine if all the Criticism goes to the player, he will not play instinctively and second guess every decision he makes on the pitch, which will worsen his form and a vicious circle of the same will ensue. I also think he did this, cause he knows deep down that fault was his as he did select a bad starting 11.
He came out in the press conference and took no responsibility whatsoever
Anyone expecting Mourinho to change or adapt is living on another planet.
The only thing stopping me from calling for his head is
The only thing stopping me from calling for his head is
I guess the point is he said deliberately controversial stuff to steal the headlines and take the focus off the players.
Monaco, Dortmund, Porto, Leverkusen, Galatasary, Milan were all teams who at the time we were expected to cruise to victory over in CL play offs. Clubs that would have been about Seville level when we faced them.
We won't mention Rotor Volgograd and Bilbao in The Europa.
Fergie was able to evolve when his Euro tactics weren't working. Hopefully Mourinho too.
Was there supposed to be a drum roll or are we to fill in the blank?! OK, I'll have a go - we're 2nd and that plus an FA Cup win would still look like an improvement of sorts?
Yeah, does anybody still believe that?
Absolute nonsense.
Porto and Dortmund went on to win the damn thing.
Leverkusen lost by one goal in the final.
Are you seriously comparing that great Milan team to Sevilla?
Do you think Sevilla will get far? I certainly don’t.
In all those games we didn’t adapt a negative approach especially at home.
I don’t really care if anyone does or not. I’m just giving context for that tweet.
Do you believe it?
Fair play to you if you are glad he's appearing committed .
The thoughts of him being in charge next season is genuinely scary.
He's sucked the joy from the game.
How can anyone enjoy watching that shit week in week out?
Even the players look miserable .
Right fair enough play tight and narrow against big teams to try and nick the result ... not ideal but ok if you're getting results .
But every game? Why not go for the throat of the weaker teams.... why not let the players enjoy some freedom? Why not let the attacking players express themselves?
......... what?
He's still trying to come up with something
Huge fear is having to dump the potential KDBs in favour of the 'Oscars' if we are to truly commit to making his philosophy successful. I just don't buy that playing non-pragmatically and winning trophies are exclusive. That line of thought would never fly with the other mega giants in football Barcelona, Madrid or Bayern, a tier I believe we belong. Are we now supposed to invest a billion pounds to assemble the ultimate antifootball unit.
@Adebesi Top post man. The only good thing about this shitty period for United is that some posters are really good to read because there is a clear analysis of the situation that is much better than paid pundit/journalists can deliver
With Sevilla an obvious - and painful - exception we’ve been pretty good at putting weaker teams to the sword this season. Although finding a way to get the best out of Sanchez has been a bit of a spanner in the works.
Basically, you’re exaggerating. We’re not at Van Gaal levels of shit on a stick football yet. Against big teams, sure, but in the majority of games we have plenty of attacking intent. Which is why last night was such a kick in the teeth.
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