Jose Mourinho | 2017/18 Assessments | Poll Added

[Di Maria's angel]

Stop re-writing history. We went all in the EL because we were so shite in the EPL and had no real chance to finish in the top 4. LVG won us the FA cup and was sacked the same night, so trophies obviously don't mean everything.

And if the EL didn't give a CL spot? Jose would have been sacked for finishing 6th, just like Moyes was when we had no mathematical chance of a top 4 position.

Yeah, you need to check your facts. On game week 35, we were 1 point off City (4th) and 4 off Liverpool (3rd). We had both Arsenal and Spurs away from home in our last 4 games and at the corresponding time, we had a semi-final against Celta Vigo. We made the decision that we'd be far likelier to make the CL by placing all our eggs in the EL basket and it worked. We were in the race for top 4 till the last 3 games of the season whilst also winning two trophies on the way.

I'd say you stop "rewriting history" as you seem to have no idea what happened last season.

 

[diplomat]

It's two ways to look at the same period. Neither is re-writing history, your opinion isn't fact. I favour the view that we were starting to see that we had to make a choice and Jose went for the Europa league. Granted, our finishing out the league campaign was disappointing, but he made obvious progress on the mess he took over. With Moyes, who took over champions finishing 6th and winning nothing, decimating morale and showing himself to be absolutely clueless the same cannot be said. There are a host of other parts of the equation to factor in besides only where you finish in the league.

I actually agree with your post. My memory is probably off so going for the EL rather than playing properly in the league might not have been as much due to being too far away from a top 4 spot. However, your point about league position not being a deciding factor when considering the progress of the team is something many have made about us occupying 2nd place for most of this season when questioning whether there's been any sort of proper development of the squad.

My opinion is obviously not a fact and it's a lot due to me being pissed of with our form and performances since the defeat to City. The Spurs game and the ones following were the final drop for me, I can't keep being positive as before and just pretending I see this progress we are making right now. I'm sorry but I just don't. Considering the fact most of our rivals are destroying teams left, right and centre and it hurts even more.

Wins against Chelsea and Liverpool will swiftly change the momentum in our whole season, although my expectations have been drastically lowered now and I fear what might happen if we don't.

 

[Borden]

Yeah, you need to check your facts. On game week 35, we were 1 point off City (4th) and 4 off Liverpool (3rd). We had both Arsenal and Spurs away from home in our last 4 games and at the corresponding time, we had a semi-final against Celta Vigo. We made the decision that we'd be far likelier to make the CL by placing all our eggs in the EL basket and it worked. We were in the race for top 4 till the last 3 games of the season whilst also winning two trophies on the way.

I'd say you stop "rewriting history" as you seem to have no idea what happened last season.

Wow. Give Mourinho a knighthood.

 

[haram]

Wow. Give Mourinho a knighthood.

Totally unneeded comment and completely ignores the point of the post.

 

[Borden]

Totally unneeded comment and completely ignores the point of the post.

Totally unneeded comment and completely ignores the point of the post.

 

[Bastian]

@diplomat Fair enough mate. I'm not immune to some alarming signs, but I'm not worried about whether Jose's up to the task.

 

[haram]

Totally unneeded comment and completely ignores the point of the post.

You're hilarious.

 

[Borden]

You're hilarious.

You're not.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

Wow. Give Mourinho a knighthood.

Can you stop with these bullshit posts.

 

[haram]

Moronic replies. Sad fella.

 

[Raees]

If we can have a poll on something as obvious as whether or not we should keep hold of Martial, why can't we have a poll on a far more divisive issue - the manager? Is it tactical to not have one? To not create a fuss and feed the journos who are lurking on the Caf? @Damien what say you?

Don't bother. Seems this forum doesn't want to encourage open debate anymore and the bias is towards people who will wholeheartedly back the manager even if there might be evidence to the contrary which suggests he might not always be in the right

 

[Bastian]

Don't bother. Seems this forum doesn't want to encourage open debate anymore and the bias is towards people who will wholeheartedly back the manager even if there might be evidence to the contrary which suggests he might not always be in the right

I think we'll get that poll. And it will encourage more debate. I appreciate your posts, though I disagree on Mourinho. What kind of change would you want? You know which manager you'd want?

 

[E-mal]

@diplomat Fair enough mate. I'm not immune to some alarming signs, but I'm not worried about whether Jose's up to the task.

You should be, the proof is in the pudding.
Football moves fast, Zidane was virtually under severe pressure despite winning back to back UCL and liga title last season.

 

[E-mal]

People can say whatever they want, the truth is this team should be doing better both in terms of results and aesthetics. And those who think aesthetic is not important have no business watching the game, they could as well check the results over the Internet.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

Yeah, that's what I'd like to get a sense of. If the categories were
A) Top class manager half way through a major rebuild
B) Made improvements, worrying signs, needs another transfer window
C) Should go if we miss out on x,y,z this season
D) Hate our style, he's ruining our most talented players, sign an attack-minded manager

I would guess there'd be 10% in group A, maybe 50% in group B, so overall slightly more positive. But there are a lot of people in group D lately...

I’m personally in the if he left I wouldn’t really care but then who would we turn to. All the obvious choices are at clubs and doing well so it would end up being taken a risk on someone who might have done well somewhere but isn’t quite at it. Enrique,Sarri,Tuchel or someone like that. I’d want Poch but just can’t see him leaving Spurs next season.

 

[TheFlagStaysDown]

People can say whatever they want, the truth is this team should be doing better both in terms of results and aesthetics. And those who think aesthetic is not important have no business watching the game, they could as well check the results over the Internet.

my thoughts, shit game could be overlooked when we were winning the trophies but I am not sure if Mourinho can do it, he lost his magic and he's not Ferguson either. Hopefully we are looking for a replacement. We absolutely deserve to play nice football after horrible 7 years. It is definitely possible to play a super nice football and bring trophies too. The question is who do we bring in as a manager. There's definitely few low profile managers which would do wonders with our game but they are not big enough names to get a shot..

 

[Hugh Jass]

my thoughts, shit game could be overlooked when we were winning the trophies but I am not sure if Mourinho can do it, he lost his magic and he's not Ferguson either. Hopefully we are looking for a replacement. We absolutely deserve to play nice football after horrible 7 years. It is definitely possible to play a super nice football and bring trophies too. The question is who do we bring in as a manager. There's definitely few low profile managers which would do wonders with our game but they are not big enough names to get a shot..

He has not lost his magic. The problem is that you have six teams going for one position, be that position the League, the FA Cup or the League Cup. Then you have about ten or eleven teams going for the champions league. Even Ferguson for all his genius could only win two champions leagues, not for lack of ability but because it is so hard to actually win that competition.

 

[Hugh Jass]

Yeah, you need to check your facts. On game week 35, we were 1 point off City (4th) and 4 off Liverpool (3rd). We had both Arsenal and Spurs away from home in our last 4 games and at the corresponding time, we had a semi-final against Celta Vigo. We made the decision that we'd be far likelier to make the CL by placing all our eggs in the EL basket and it worked. We were in the race for top 4 till the last 3 games of the season whilst also winning two trophies on the way.

I'd say you stop "rewriting history" as you seem to have no idea what happened last season.

This.

 

[Santoryo]

I think we'll get that poll. And it will encourage more debate. I appreciate your posts, though I disagree on Mourinho. What kind of change would you want? You know which manager you'd want?

Not a chance you're getting that poll. Mods are starting to lock threads that even come remotely close to stirring debates that might imply Jose's departure in any ways of form.

A poll about that would have people talking hypothetically might that be about Jose's departure which is a fat NO from Mods as evidenced by a thread recently locked which encouraged discussions over such topic.

It's a bit hectic on the Caf these days. Both Mods and posters are having mares. I'm seriously dissapointed by the locking of some threads, especially ones that encourage some very needed and real talking points but unfortunately some(including Mods) seems a tad too sensitive.

 

[Dolf]

Not a chance you're getting that poll. Mods are starting to lock threads that even come remotely close to stirring debates that might imply Jose's departure in any ways of form.

A poll about that would have people talking hypothetically might that be about Jose's departure which is a fat NO from Mods as evidenced by a thread recently locked which encouraged discussions over such topic.

It's a bit hectic on the Caf these days. Both Mods and posters are having mares. I'm seriously dissapointed by the locking of some threads, especially ones that encourage some very needed and real talking points but unfortunately some(including Mods) seems a tad too sensitive.

For what it's worth, i second this.

 

[Santoryo]

I’m personally in the if he left I wouldn’t really care but then who would we turn to. All the obvious choices are at clubs and doing well so it would end up being taken a risk on someone who might have done well somewhere but isn’t quite at it. Enrique,Sarri,Tuchel or someone like that. I’d want Poch but just can’t see him leaving Spurs next season.

If you're looking at it with the mindset that the next manager should have a busy CV full of trophies, experienced and such then it becomes hard to find someone. But if we're looking at certain type of profile which we should then there are plenty of talented mangaers out there with fresh and modern minds to take us forward.

Our mistake hiring managers has been to look for big names rather than profiles that would fit our visions. Had we done the latter we could have been thinking about the likes of Posh, Tuchel etc instead of jumping on them Mourinho or Van Gaal who have great CVs full of trophies but at the same time on the wane with the game clearly leaving them behind.

 

[Hugh Jass]

If you're looking at it with the mindset that the next manager should have a busy CV full of trophies, experienced and such then it becomes hard to find someone. But if we're looking at certain type of profile which we should then there are plenty of talented mangaers out there with fresh and modern minds to take us forward.

Our mistake hiring managers has been to look for big names rather than profiles that would fit our visions. Had we done the latter we could have been thinking about the likes of Posh, Tuchel etc instead of jumping on them Mourinho or Van Gaal who have great CVs full of trophies but at the same time on the wane with the game clearly leaving them behind.

He is not on the wane. Mourinho will probably go to Psg or Bayern when he leaves us and will certainly win leagues with those clubs. If he goes to Psg there is a good chance he will win the CL with them. If Psg had mourinho they would not have lost by 3-1 to Madrid recently. I am not saying they would have won, but they would not have conceded three goals. He would have set them up to defend.

The reason he is "doing bad" with us is because you have six teams vying for one position, be that position the league, the fa cup or the league cup. If city had not been bought by the oil oligarchs, we would be challenging for the title.

The other thing to remember is that any other manager we get or any other manager in the top six, is faced with the same problems. You have six teams going for league and you have about 11 going for the champions league.

 

[Santoryo]

He is not on the wane. Mourinho will probably go to Psg or Bayern when he leaves us and will certainly win leagues with those clubs. If he goes to Psg there is a good chance he will win the CL with them. If Psg had mourinho they would not have lost by 3-1 to Madrid recently. I am not saying they would have won, but they would not have conceded three goals. He would have set them up to defend.

The reason he is "doing bad" with us is because you have six teams vying for one position, be that position the league, the fa cup or the league cup. If city had not been bought by the oil oligarchs, we would be challenging for the title.

The other thing to remember is that any other manager we get or any other manager in the top six, is faced with the same problems. You have six teams going for league and you have about 11 going for the champions league.

He's definitely on the wane unless he proves otherwise. Since leaving Madrid he's struggled to win big trophies and in that same time many new young managers have come along and outperformed him.

At least a few years ago one could say Mourinho is a top 2, top 3 manager in the world, right now no one can say that with a straight face. There are just many managers who've done and still doing better than him the past 3-4 years.

And Mourinho has some of the absolute worst record against other top teams away from home the past few years, and when I say worst, I'm talking diabolical. What makes you think he'd have had PSG not lose against Madrid away from home?

 

[Hugh Jass]

He's definitely on the wane unless he proves otherwise. Since leaving Madrid he's struggled to win big trophies and in that same time many new young managers have come along and outperformed him.

At least a few years ago one could say Mourinho is a top 2, top 3 manager in the world, right now no one can say that with a straight face. There are just many managers who've done and still doing better than him the past 3-4 years.

Because of the competition. Ferguson only won two champions leagues not because he was bad or "on the wane" in the CL, but because it is actually so hard to win that competition. mourinho also won the league with chelsea just a while ago.

When Mourinho leaves us, this "on the wane" manager will win titles with either Bayern or Psg. Jesus christ we won the europa last year, a competition Klopp and Poch could not win.

How about instead of dismissing him, you get behind him.

 

[Santoryo]

Because of the competition. Ferguson only won two champions leagues not because he was bad or "on the wane" in the CL, but because it is actually so hard to win that competition. mourinho also won the league with chelsea just a while ago.

When Mourinho leaves us, this "on the wane" manager will win titles with either Bayern or Psg. Jesus christ we won the europa last year, a competition Klopp and Poch could not win.

How about instead of dismissing him, you get behind him.

Bayern wouldn't touch Mourinho with a 10 feet pole and if PSG are smart they wouldn't either. They've invested heavily in their attacking players for them to risk stifling them by having Mourinho as their boss.

And comparing both Posh and Klopp who are operating under far less financial backing is a reach in itself. Someone like Posh has actually improved Spurs and made them a regular top 4 team who are a threat to anybody in the world. He's actually done something for Spurs and it's not the easiest thing to accomplish.

Meanwhile Mourinho still complains about lack of spending despite being backed heavily by the boards and he's failing to integrate and get the best of the players he's so expensively assembled.

People sit here and talk about how the likes of Posh haven't won trophies yet disregard or simply chose to forget that he's only managed mostly mid table teams so far and Spurs. And in the case of the latter he's improved them considerably to consistent top 4 team. Before Posh, Spurs didn't even have the pedigree they have now. They were a team every top 4 sides were mostly expected to beat on their way yet that has changed.

 

[L1nk]

Because of the competition. Ferguson only won two champions leagues not because he was bad or "on the wane" in the CL, but because it is actually so hard to win that competition. mourinho also won the league with chelsea just a while ago.

When Mourinho leaves us, this "on the wane" manager will win titles with either Bayern or Psg. Jesus christ we won the europa last year, a competition Klopp and Poch could not win.

How about instead of dismissing him, you get behind him.

He may go to PSG because they are desperately seeking a way to win the CL and he's won some in the past, even though I don't think a player like Neymar will take to him and I don't think he'd win the CL with them, but there is absolutely no way Bayern will pick Mourinho as a manager, It doesn't matter what his CV has on it, he will never go there, Bayern have a much different criteria and selection process for their managers, but they are targeting the likes of Tuchel, Hassenhuttl and Nagelsmann as their next coach because they are a well run club who understand the need to plan for the future, none of these guys would be good enough for most fans here because they don't have a CV littered with every trophy imaginable, but it will most likely be Tuchel, Mourinho won't get anywhere near the Bayern seat, they aren't stupid. They made a mistake with Ancelotti I feel, even if their heart was in the right place, but they would never do it with Mourinho in a million years.

I can understand fan's frustrations when they want to watch some decent football and not be subjected to pure dross a good portion of the time, has it been all season? No, have people been pissed off when we sit back and cower against the likes of Liverpool? Yup, everyone should be to be honest, but I see a lot of blinkered Mourinho fans here that would claim a Mourinho masterclass if we managed to get 5th in the league because it's 1 place higher than last season's 6th. I mean if we went trophyless this season and ended up scraping Top 4 or even outside of it, and considering some of the football we've played this season, with all that extra spend on players, would you genuinely consider it a massive improvement worthy of another 200 odd million outlay this summer, genuinely?

 

[MP1711]

He's definitely on the wane unless he proves otherwise. Since leaving Madrid he's struggled to win big trophies and in that same time many new young managers have come along and outperformed him.

At least a few years ago one could say Mourinho is a top 2, top 3 manager in the world, right now no one can say that with a straight face. There are just many managers who've done and still doing better than him the past 3-4 years.

And Mourinho has some of the absolute worst record against other top teams away from home the past few years, and when I say worst, I'm talking diabolical. What makes you think he'd have had PSG not lose against Madrid away from home?

In the last four years he's won five trophies and currently has the highest winning percentage in our history, that's on the wane?

 

[iamherenow]

In the last four years he's won five trophies and currently has the highest winning percentage in our history, that's on the wane?

Get with the program,all we need to do is sack him and get in a "progressive manager" and all will be dandy..

 

[Z1L3]

Since this "progression" thing keeps coming up, let's look at how the other top 6 managers are doing in terms of progression:

1. City - poor last season, definitely a progression this year, although they did spend an obscene amount of money.
2. Liverpool - same as before. They can beat anyone, but they can lose to anyone as well. Defensively shaky. Klopp doesn't seem to have a plan B; it's always press and attack. Stagnation.
3. Tottenham - They finished third and second in the last two seasons, so I guess they should win the title now, except they won't. So I guess it's a regression, or a stagnation at best. If Kane leaves they'll be a disaster.
4. Chelsea - Conte's tactics (which he copied from Mazzarri) have been figured out, and not even the team he inherited from Mourihno can save him. He shamelessly parked the bus against Barcelona at home and still couldn't keep a clean sheet. Regression.
5. Arsenal - a tragedy.

I know this is harsh, but what the heck, this is how Mourihno is judged.

 

[Social Madworks]

He is not on the wane. Mourinho will probably go to Psg or Bayern when he leaves us and will certainly win leagues with those clubs. If he goes to Psg there is a good chance he will win the CL with them. If Psg had mourinho they would not have lost by 3-1 to Madrid recently. I am not saying they would have won, but they would not have conceded three goals. He would have set them up to defend.

The reason he is "doing bad" with us is because you have six teams vying for one position, be that position the league, the fa cup or the league cup. If city had not been bought by the oil oligarchs, we would be challenging for the title.

The other thing to remember is that any other manager we get or any other manager in the top six, is faced with the same problems. You have six teams going for league and you have about 11 going for the champions league.

I can’t find the source now, but Jose once mocked Pep by saying something along the line “someone chose to go to the easy league”. I think he said it when in the interview when he was unveiled at Chelsea the 2nd time. It will be a slap on his own face if he joins either of the 2 clubs you mentioned. His ego is too big for that.

 

[Member 90887]

Was reading the Pogba and Martial Threads o_O.

I don't get this new trend of putting players before the manager ? do we want to become chelsea ? with people wanting to change the manager that's getting us stronger and wanting the manager to go before the players the transformation is almost complete.

Granted the football isn't good, granted we're boring to watch in the big games, wether it is in the CL or against the TOP 6. but you people should be more patient. your memory is short, remember what we went through with Moyes and LVG before Jose?

Now we have one of the top managers in the world. we are attracting players of the caliber we should. he has to be given more time. he is on the right path.

And let's not kid ourselves, we aren't yet at the level of going toe to toe with other big clubs. Spurs have been playing together for years, city were in a good place before pep and the core of players he has were already playing together before. Liverpool, Klopp had a season more before Jose to implement his system and we saw what happens when teams go to play them there.

i wouldn't judge him before his third season and before he got all the players he needs for his team.

And re the Pogba and Martial problems. Pogba hasn't done anything to warrant the love and the excuses he is getting on the forum. We saw Beckham go when he didn't want to and we stayed by the manager. if he really wants to 'quit' united if Jose's still here, well then he didn't really come back for the club then did he ? with the performance he served up during his time here .... i'm pretty sure however that it's just media bs like always!

Re Martial, the problem seems to come from his contract, i'm pretty sure that if his demands were reasonnable, the club would have already agreed to them. we don't really care that much about salary. so if it doesn't work out well, it doesn't. that's about it.

 

[MDFC Manager]

If we don't win tomorrow people can't use the 'But we're second in the league' reasoning.

Interesting

So what? Proper will use the "we're in third!" reasoning instead, which is still progress from last season

 

[kouroux]

There is no way PSG will ever be interested in him IMHO. At his peak, they wouldn't be interested in him and now that he seems past it there is no way they would. He's incompatible with the football they seek and aspire to play each game. Mourinho is very rated badly in France in general. I suspect the same things would be said regarding Bayern

 

[ThierryHenry14]

There is no way PSG will ever be interested in him IMHO. At his peak, they wouldn't be interested in him and now that he seems past it there is no way they would. He's incompatible with the football they seek and aspire to play each game. Mourinho is very rated badly in France in general. I suspect the same things would be said regarding Bayern

No other big club will want him just due to his brand of football. He basically fell out with flair player like CR7 and Hazard due to his negative approach to the games. Now it is Pogba's turn. It is normal. I can't imagine Neymar would entertain the idea parking the bus.

 

[MDFC Manager]

There is no way PSG will ever be interested in him IMHO. At his peak, they wouldn't be interested in him and now that he seems past it there is no way they would. He's incompatible with the football they seek and aspire to play each game. Mourinho is very rated badly in France in general. I suspect the same things would be said regarding Bayern

If PSG wouldn't be interested in him, why the feck did we give him the contract extension?

 

[fellaini's barber]

No doubt theyll blame injuries. Or blame Fergie for leaving a crap squad. Or suggest 5th is an improvement on 6th.

If all else fails they'll set fire to the argument and call everyone spoilt.

You forgot Woody and the filthy Glazers not giving him enough funds to get season changers like Perisic

 

[LoneStar]

Granted that the exhibition was poor - by the United standards - 0-0 has to be considered a good result. It´s nuts that some people are saying that it was better to lose 2-1 then draw 0-0. Any win at home, including a 2-1 win will mean qualification for United.

Basicly the 0-0 assures that United will have the chance to decide the tie in front of their fans and any win by any margin will mean qualification - even a 0-0 would mean another 30 minutes at home to try and beat Sevilha.

Sevilha are a very solid team with a lot of european experience - they manage to draw the two games with Liverpool - and only lost once at home during the whole season.

Lets keep things in perspective: United is currently second in the premier league, still in a shout of winning the cup and a home game way of reaching the best 8 teams in Europe - this after a season where you manage to win two cups (three if you count the Super Cup).

It's not the result, 0-0 away is fine. It's the way we played. Had it not been for DDG, we would have lost. It was a total shambles in attack. We couldn't string 2 proper passes on the counter. It was just hoof the ball to Lukaku and hope for the best.

 

[MDFC Manager]

You forgot Woody and the filthy Glazers not giving him enough funds to get season changers like Perisic

Unforgivable those leeches have denied us a certain treble

 

[BigdaftGorby]

Because of the competition. Ferguson only won two champions leagues not because he was bad or "on the wane" in the CL, but because it is actually so hard to win that competition. mourinho also won the league with chelsea just a while ago.

When Mourinho leaves us, this "on the wane" manager will win titles with either Bayern or Psg. Jesus christ we won the europa last year, a competition Klopp and Poch could not win.

How about instead of dismissing him, you get behind him.

How about you come back down to reality?

Let me just get your point straight in my head.
You claim he’s not on the wane as he could go to PSG and Bayern and win trophies? Right?

A monkey could go to PSG and Bayern and win trophies. Both are 1-2 team leagues, that proves nothing about about his current ability to manage.

And you claim Real wouldn’t have scored 3? Do you honestly think that the petulant child that Neymar is would sit deep in his own half to protect a lead?

Do you think Jose would survive dropping Neymar? PSGs jewel in the crown?

 

[AndyJ1985]

After the fairly sizeable lead we built up over those behind us, and then strengthening with the purchase of Sanchez, the fact we're now in 3rd and will likely fall further down is ridiculous. But to be perfectly honest not unexpected. The performances have indicated for some time that we'll drop off a cliff sooner or later. We've more of less been relying on individual brilliance to snatch us a win to mask the dreadful football on show. It's unsustainable. I get that some people are of the optimistic disposition and will continue to point out that we're 2nd (now actually 3rd) and still in the CL and FA cup. But being realistic do we have any hope of beating the better teams in the CL? Of course not. Will we finish top 4? Maybe. Either way not a lot has changed from the past few seasons where instead of discussing our title challenge or analysing brilliant football, we're arguing over whether we'll actually be back in the CL next season and we're still moaning about the lack of entertainment. For me that's why I've reached the point where I want rid of him. Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results...there's a quote about that.