Spurs have created over 350 chances in the EPL (similar to City and Liverpool) to our 270 odd. They clearly are better attacking coached but lack efficient finishing. We are bottom in the top 6 for chance creation. Our chance creation (indicator of our attacking strategy) is closer to Southampton's than our top 6 rivals. Our individuals are feeding off scraps and their individual quality is bailing us out. This is what you can get from an attacking line that costs hundreds of millions
Jose Mourinho | 2017/18 Assessments | Poll Added
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Our attacking play is simply not good enough considering the personnel we have available.
I am starting to doubt if Mourinho is capable of turning us into a cohesive attacking unit.
I am starting to doubt if Mourinho is capable of turning us into a cohesive attacking unit.
When Jose had De Bruyne he sold him, when Pep had Clichy, Sagna he still finished above us yet sold them to raise money for better fullbacks which is exactly what I expected of Jose when he arrived. People go on about how City bought no one seems to notice how many players they sold to make way for the new players. He sold players like Navas, Fernando, Bony, Zabaleta some who were decent players while Jose was struggling to keep hold of Fellaini. He probably would have spent that Lukaku and Matic and Lindelof money on other players too. See? That excuse works both ways. Pep has done some extreme chopping and changing to get that City to the shape he wants, despite them already having a squad than us.
You can make all the excuses you want about how we've held Jose back by not giving him the funds he needs but there's no excuse you can make for some of his player preferences. Will you be blaming the club if by next season we're still playing Pogba/Matic in a midfield two? Or if he persists with Valencia/Young as fullbacks? Pep is shaping his team to what he wants and so is Jose, one's ideas are paying off and one's isn't, stop blaming it on the club or the players. Its been 2 seasons
In isolation it's a good thing but I worry about these things on the long run. In the league, 30% of our goals have been scored by Lingard and Martial, they have played a combined 2500 minutes, neither seem to be seen like important pieces by the manager, he is happy to put them in difficult positions which contradicts the idea that he has built some sort of attacking system where Mata and Lingard are important cogs, that's nonsense. Our reality is that Lingard, Martial, Lukaku, Mata and Rashford are good at scoring goals and they are particularly good at scoring individual goals which is something that everyone knows, our problem is with creating goals for others.
Sorry mate but this is at the level of Michael Owen ' s commentary.
This season, teams bar City have been weaker as compared to the previous. Chelsea have been wank, Arsenal not even Top 4 challengers, while Spurs and Liverpool had slow starts. While we had a head start on these teams.
If Jose doesn't even finish 3rd in such a situation, and continues his negligent handling of Alexis and Martial, questions should be asked of his management. I like him and always supported him, but assessment of ground realities must be objective.
If Jose doesn't even finish 3rd in such a situation, and continues his negligent handling of Alexis and Martial, questions should be asked of his management. I like him and always supported him, but assessment of ground realities must be objective.
I wonder what the opinion of the top reds will be if we do indeed finish outside the Top 4 and how much backtracking will be done.
I do believe we’ll finish ok though, providing we get past all this bullshit we’re seeing just now.
Spurs don't have individual quality? We'd all take most of their attackers without debate. Would Spurs score more with Lukaku or Lingard in their team instead?
Quite clearly we are efficient more so than them despite them having a RvP level striker, it's not luck or individual quality its coaching. Inarguably our coaching does lead to less chances but that's only part of the picture.
Imo, not finishing 2nd is a failure.
Top 4 is seriously in danger if we lose to Chelsea tomorrow.
It will be 1-1. I expect a cagey encounter with Mourinho putting on another cowardly setup. Conte has revenge on his mind so I think Chelsea will be up for this.
No doubt theyll blame injuries. Or blame Fergie for leaving a crap squad. Or suggest 5th is an improvement on 6th.
If all else fails they'll set fire to the argument and call everyone spoilt.
He's improved our squad and our results are better than they were so he deserves some credit.
I don't want him here long term though. His whole 'underdog' set-up doesn't suit us. I want a manager here who sets us up to try and dominate teams and that isn't him.
I don't want him here long term though. His whole 'underdog' set-up doesn't suit us. I want a manager here who sets us up to try and dominate teams and that isn't him.
It's over now unfortunately. Falling out with 2 players he has no idea how to use effectively. Signing Sanchez to replace your player of the month forcing him to the right wing when Sanchez has shown that he can be effective from that side. Playing ageing wingers at full back. Playing long balls to a striker who clearly can't play that way. `
The thing that irks me most about Jose is the money wasted by him. Signing Pogba with seemingly no idea of his strengths and weaknesses. Same for Lukaku. Signing Alexis when our left side is fine but our right side is wank. Signing Lindelof when we needed right now ability not potential.
Anyone who thinks he still has a clear plan on how he wants us to play is deluded. If he wants us to be defensive then don't go signing players who can't shine in that sort of system.
We're closer to a Ferguson team in personnel than a Jose team and it's his fault.
Get a bloody director of football in pronto.
The thing that irks me most about Jose is the money wasted by him. Signing Pogba with seemingly no idea of his strengths and weaknesses. Same for Lukaku. Signing Alexis when our left side is fine but our right side is wank. Signing Lindelof when we needed right now ability not potential.
Anyone who thinks he still has a clear plan on how he wants us to play is deluded. If he wants us to be defensive then don't go signing players who can't shine in that sort of system.
We're closer to a Ferguson team in personnel than a Jose team and it's his fault.
Get a bloody director of football in pronto.
Would probably have taken a 1-1 if things were going well for us.
As things stand, not winning tomorrow might well put us in a big downward spiral.
Indeed, and Spurs are right on our tails and in top form currently. We're really making a mess of this season!
I wanted him here and defended him heavily for the first 18 months.
But if he can't at least get top four with the squad he has now he should feck right off out the door.
But if he can't at least get top four with the squad he has now he should feck right off out the door.
That we are even discussing top four is making me fume.
We were 8 points clear of 5th just over a month ago.
We were 8 points clear of 5th just over a month ago.
Yes. The "we're still second in the table, so we must be doing ok and making progress" excuse will no longer be valid in a couple of weeks IMO.
We’ve already had plenty of that, really bizarre attitude some of them have.
Guys.. chill out.
There's 10 games left and you lot have given up thinking we'll be out of top 4.
We are still 2nd on points, get behind the team and the manager. The league hasn't end yet.
You guys expect our players not to give up when conceding, fighting till the very last minute, throwing the kitchen sink and all the good virtue we had under fergie yet you guys raised your hands up with 10 games to go and crying for the manager to get the sack.
How bout give him some benefits of doubt for a change? I can see the point of complaining if we're in 5th positions needing the top 4 to lose points, but at this moment 2nd is our to lose and until we mathematically lost it hold your horses abit.
There's 10 games left and you lot have given up thinking we'll be out of top 4.
We are still 2nd on points, get behind the team and the manager. The league hasn't end yet.
You guys expect our players not to give up when conceding, fighting till the very last minute, throwing the kitchen sink and all the good virtue we had under fergie yet you guys raised your hands up with 10 games to go and crying for the manager to get the sack.
How bout give him some benefits of doubt for a change? I can see the point of complaining if we're in 5th positions needing the top 4 to lose points, but at this moment 2nd is our to lose and until we mathematically lost it hold your horses abit.
Actually we're third now. Update your talking points.
Right. Go create mourinho sack watch thread now?
Holy shit, some of you guys are such drama fecking queens.
Our last 5 PL games include 3 wins and 2 losses. Hardly devastatingly bad like some of you seem to be crying over. We've played one home game in all competitions since the Stoke win in early Jan. We've now a run with several home games where you'll see better performances. For feck sakes, get a grip.
Our last 5 PL games include 3 wins and 2 losses. Hardly devastatingly bad like some of you seem to be crying over. We've played one home game in all competitions since the Stoke win in early Jan. We've now a run with several home games where you'll see better performances. For feck sakes, get a grip.
Individual performances, I've already said it.
If you look at the stats: We average 3 less chances created per match than our other rivals for the top 4 spot. So far this season, we have 80 less chances created than Tottenham.
Average wise: Chances created, average is 337,6. Ours is 276, so we're 61,6 below average
Key passes: Average is 295,4. Ours: 235, 60,4 below average
Shots inside area: Average is 266,6, ours is 230, 36,6 below average
Total shots: Average of 450,4, ours is 382, 68,4 below average
Total forward passes: Average of 9709,6, ours is 8522, 1187,6 below average
Basically, the only place we look good is shot accuracy...but we're still 3rd with 52%, worst is Tottenhams 47%.
It's pretty fecking dire.
Key passes, chances created, shots inside area and forward passes is a pretty decent indication that we're struggling going forward.
But hey ho, we've scored only one less goal than Tottenham so everything is mint and our attacking football is sublime
Watching us play, it looks like we're in pre-season with a brand new set of attacking players. There's very little understanding between the players.
So yeah, kudos to Mourinho for coming on and stabilizing the club, bringing in quality players that can bring the club to a higher level. I do however have serious doubts regarding his ability to get the best out of our attacking players. Personally, I feel those doubts are well documented both in stats and just looking at the way we play.
We spent 90 mins against Sevilla knocking the ball up to Lukaku, with the closest player being at left back.
It's somewhat amusing that you've looked at the recent pages and concluded that the complaints are based on our last 5 PL games, or that it's based on results.
I thought the same without seeing the stats. But seeing the stats, I think it's probably worse.
I was told stats are manipulated by some other posters, they need to be put into context, they don't show the whole picture, even though when using my own eyes and brain to look, understand the type of football we play on the pitch, all I see is performances perfectly aligning with the data provided. Yet people would rather keep their eyes closed and remain 1000% positive, despite anything else.
I've always been a realist in life and believe blind positivism is counter-productive.
I want to avoid sensationalism but if there is any truth behind Jose alienating Pogba and Martial, he only stands to lose from that situation. The club will not allow two of it's prize assets to leave, especially when it's cheaper and easier to sack a manager. I've supported Mourinho for his entire tenure and I hope everything turns around in the next couple of games, but you can't help to start to wonder whats going on behind these scenes, especially when you see the performances on the pitch, something appears to be off.
I'd also fear about who our next appointment would be, because we can't afford to get that wrong. Part of me wants Klopp, just for the sheer outrage it would cause, not to mention the dismantling of Liverpool's side.
I'd also fear about who our next appointment would be, because we can't afford to get that wrong. Part of me wants Klopp, just for the sheer outrage it would cause, not to mention the dismantling of Liverpool's side.
Ok... Our last 5 games in all comps: 2 wins, 1 draw and 2 losses. Our last 8 games include 5 wins, 1 draw and 2 losses. Our last 10 include 7 wins, 1 draw and 2 losses.
Spurs' last 5 games: 2 wins and 3 draws. Their last 8 games include 3 wins and 5 draws. Their last 10: 5 wins and 5 draws.
As I've already pointed out, you're completely missing out on what is being debated. It's not really all that complicated, it's not written in hex. So either you're too thick to debate or you have an agenda and want this to only be about results.
Well it must be based on agendas, if not results, since the constant bitching from posters like yourself hasn't stopped since day 1. Where's the debate in bitching?
Additionally, people have been airing a lot of their frustrations following the recent results against Spurs and Newcastle, so I'm inclined to believe that part of the shitfest in the past few days is based on results.
But, yeah obviously we all can't be as smart as you, Mr MThomas. And if you're going to call me thick, I think maybe you shouldn't reply to my posts.
The funny thing is, if you remove us from the equation, the average chances created for City, Tottenham, Chelsea and Liverpool is 353.
Chances created per match is lower this season than it was in Van Gaals first season at the club and it's lower than the disaster season under Moyes
If you look at the seasons 2013/2014-> to 2017/2018, the only thing we're better at this season is shot accuracy....
Chances created per match is lower this season than it was in Van Gaals first season at the club and it's lower than the disaster season under Moyes
If you look at the seasons 2013/2014-> to 2017/2018, the only thing we're better at this season is shot accuracy....
It's based on how we're playing as a team. If you're happy with the way we're playing, because currently the results are going our way, then go ahead.
Just don't pretend that the debate is about results, when it's about the way the team is playing
More and more damning it gets...
But it's ok, we're in third, which is an improvement over last season
Even if we look back at the performances over the last 10 games, they've only recently dropped off and there's nothing to suggest we can't improve. Sanchez being introduced and Pogba's reported illness have set the team back but if both issues can be resolved, I don't see why we can't beat Chelsea tomorrow or Sevilla in three weeks.
"Progress". Or it's probably due to the fact we have spent hundreds of millions of pounds every season on transfers and wages, whilst still doing feck all in the grand scheme and when compared to the top teams in Europe.
This.
2nd, the FA Cup, and a good run in the UCL is the only measure of success we can have now. If he falls short, he needs to leave.
6/10 on his time at Man United so far. Not bad, not great but pretty good.
The timing of Man City's great season really hasn't helped.
The timing of Man City's great season really hasn't helped.
Nah. Don't think it's just City.
Klopp and Pochettino are getting more out of inferior squads imo.
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