Which is??
Jose Mourinho | 2017/18 Assessments | Poll Added
- Thread starter Suedesi
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Well you see, Pogba needs Toni Kroos and Sergio Busquets behind him, as well as Patrice Evra at left back to help him out when he needs it. Don't forget what he has for dinner is also important; if he eats some dodgy lasagna before the game then he can't perform either. Oh and also, no hanky panky the night before, you know what LVG said about the players needing to be horny, that's important as well.
Cheers!
Oh yea I don't really disagree at all. I am not a fan of his vision of football. I was just saying that he, like every other manager, does what he knows and what he feels comfortable with. It just so happens that what he likes is getting more exposed nowadays than it was 10 years ago.
If the season carries on in this direction it's going to end up a disaster, at which point the summer is absolutely perfect to bring our club and our football into the modern age with Thomas Tuchel at the helm. Supporters would actually feel some joy and excitement in watching our football again, not boredom and depression. More and more that contract extension is beginning to look like a rush job, Mourinho needs to sort this out for christ sake.
If it goes on as it is we could end up 5th or 6th
Exactly, disaster.
Jose's team has been very effective and functional in the past. This is not the same as this United team. We are no longer effective and no longer functional either. This is the main issue. His teams put to the sword any lesser teams and then can shut up shop and nick wins against better teams. This is not what is happening with United now. We are terrible against most teams whether they are lesser or better teams. It is all of our own making. It is not teams that are better than us in having better players than us. Our players are as good as that most other teams have. Yes he play terrible football and do not win games we should win easily. For sure there is a lot of wrong with what is going on at United. It is not the style that worries me but the results now mostly.
I feel the same.
I never expected champagne football under Mourinho, but his teams were always structured and coherent. They had a plan and they executed. And they were brilliant on the counter. Able to set up shop when necessary.
With us though, we look awful in defense and attack against any half decent team. It's very worrying.
Agree @Foxbatt @Eddy_JukeZ
Also, the part about Mourinho's past teams being brilliant at counter. I think, other than inconsistency issue, that has to do with some of our players still doesn't buy into his ideas and ways of football. This is a big problem, especially if one of our best players are rebelling, IF that happened of course.
In addition, is Mourinho tactics that negative/dreadful all games? really? His teams of the past, yes in some games play negative tactics full 90 mins, yet not all the time, and in fact they have played many entertaining games with exciting plays. Early this season, we have played total exciting football mind, with solid defense tactic.
Also, the part about Mourinho's past teams being brilliant at counter. I think, other than inconsistency issue, that has to do with some of our players still doesn't buy into his ideas and ways of football. This is a big problem, especially if one of our best players are rebelling, IF that happened of course.
In addition, is Mourinho tactics that negative/dreadful all games? really? His teams of the past, yes in some games play negative tactics full 90 mins, yet not all the time, and in fact they have played many entertaining games with exciting plays. Early this season, we have played total exciting football mind, with solid defense tactic.
None of them are enjoying the football.
Everything is a slog .
Everything is a slog .
It doesn't even need to be exact positions like on football manager or FIFA. But most realize that Pogba is best when seen in advanced positions to the left of the striker and that Sanchez is best shadowing the striker.
It's a hell of a lot better than playing Pogba DM and Sanchez as effectively a left wing back.
this is a big part of it. jose first time round at Chelsea the players did not mind it so much as they had the best squad in the league and were winning games for fun. the players were young and winning for the first time so it did not bother them so much.
since then at Madrid and Chelsea second time round, the players seem to take to it much more negatively and then it goes bust. this time round too the players are grinding out games and I fear this is the best we will get and it wont get us the league. next season I think the players will stop buying in to the methods even more and it will be even worse.
once you lose that with the players then its awful.
the 'we are second in the league' is papering over the cracks big time as last season we may have been unlucky with some points but this year I feel we have been lucky to get this many points! we have won games when we have been awful and DDG has made the saves to get us big points. we so easily could be based on our performances, in 8-10 less points this year and pretty much everyone would be calling for jose's head!
im still wondering where those fans are gone who were saying to me they would genuinely rather have jose than pep! I wonder if they are brave enough to come forward now.
we need to look at the situation in the summer big time. if jose is able to get in some quality and change the way we play then lets go. but all the evidence points to him spending whatever it takes to get the bigger players like sanchez, lukaku and pogba and serving up the same trash.
sanchez had a goal every other game at arsenal and was usually the best player on the pitch. he has one in 6 for us (from the pen spot) and is playing like a kid trying to chase down hopeful balls and not doing much with it!
something has to change. whether that's a new manager coming in the summer or the board having a strong word with jose and demanding a change in style. roman did it with jose and it worked for a while however jose kept going to the media moaning about roman asking for a different style to win!
For me our problem since SAF went has been timing. We missed out on Pep, Klopp, and Mou at the time it was probably right for them to come and pick up from where SAF left off rather than after Moyes and LVG.
Since SAF went we went in for players at the wrong time in their careers to really add to our team, except for Martial. And we got rid of players without having an actual plan of who get in their place (in thinking mainly of our back line here)
We then extend Mour’s contract at a time where we’re in mid season without really makin any headway in the way we play or set up.
I like the manager for what it’s worth, and wanted him after the great man retired. I just think when we eventually picked him, it was at the wrong time.
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Glad we hired Mourinho and wanted him in 2013 but at the moment he seems muddled in his thinking, would love it if he adopted what historically could be called the "Utd" way if he was to just select the likes of Chong,Gomes,TFM,Pereira etc and just tell them to express themselves,sadly the men in suits want absolute guaranteed top 4 hence we find ourselves losing some identity and becoming just like the rest of the status quo!
SAF demonstrated it was essential to keep evolving, refresh your coaches etc. to stay at the top long term.
Jose still has the same coaches etc? He needs to start with Rui "Brian Kidd" Faria for a start, but suspect he's too loyal/stubborn to change anything.
Jose still has the same coaches etc? He needs to start with Rui "Brian Kidd" Faria for a start, but suspect he's too loyal/stubborn to change anything.
Van Gaal was sacked because
a) Mourinho was available
b) Finished outside the top 4
Had mourinho not been on the market he might have got another season.
Hit the nail on the head here. Sums up what I was thinking as well, his approach is past it largely with influx of quality managers that have the money now to match their vision of fluid football.
None of them are using their brains either very often. The squad still lacks few intelligent players.
If United go out in the second leg, i expect Jose to throw someone under the bus instead of taking blame for being negative in the first leg and not going for the win. If Jose stays, i doubt, Pogba, Martial, Sanchez type of players are going to enjoy playing football. They all just seem like going through the motions, giving interviews about how they are ready for the big game and then just fizzle out.
The other thing that pisses me off about Jose is his talking about how CL is great for United at Old Trafford, which is something United have missed etc etc and expecting the crowd to be up for it. Then on the day, with the dire football, he will expect the crowd to raise the roof. He is a hypocrite with massive ego. Doubt this season run in or the next season is going to improve.
I was never his fan but was happy to see that he steadied the ship and was learning to understand him and give him time but he is running off course straight in to the iceberg territory.
The other thing that pisses me off about Jose is his talking about how CL is great for United at Old Trafford, which is something United have missed etc etc and expecting the crowd to be up for it. Then on the day, with the dire football, he will expect the crowd to raise the roof. He is a hypocrite with massive ego. Doubt this season run in or the next season is going to improve.
I was never his fan but was happy to see that he steadied the ship and was learning to understand him and give him time but he is running off course straight in to the iceberg territory.
Mata, The Mkhi we bought, Sanchaz, Matic, Pogba, etc... These players have won trophies prior been coach by Mou. I really dont get the logic that these players are all of a sudden playing without intelligent..
Why not let us look at Mou history and allocate blame accordingly.
Nowadays people are to fast to jump to conclusions. Either that or we like to suffer by anticipation - its unreal seeing so many of us talking about dropping from top 4 and being eliminated from the champions league.
Focusing on the facts - they arent subjective - we see United second in the premier league, still fighting for the domestic cup and having an home game against Sevilha to try an make it top 8 in Europe - this are the facts all the rest its futurology.
Mourinho teams - at least the ones that actually lift the European Cup - were never dominant and by no means did they have the said artistic note for their exhibitions, but they were efective and knew how to drill out a result. In fact he didnt won his champions league groups in his Inter run to glory or in his Oporto run. As you can see in the Inter results bellow he didnt even won is three first group games with Inter and was losing 1-0 in Kiev in his fourth game until very close to the end... Mourinho has proved many times in the past that his teams can win major honors withouth being considered the favorite and withouth being playing an attractive brand of football. So I believe we should all focus in supporting the team and leave the knifes in the drawer at least untill the end of the season.
Internazionale
0-0 
Barcelona
Rubin
1-1 Internazionale
Internazionale 2-2 
Dynamo Kyiv
Dynamo Kyiv 1-2 Internazionale
Focusing on the facts - they arent subjective - we see United second in the premier league, still fighting for the domestic cup and having an home game against Sevilha to try an make it top 8 in Europe - this are the facts all the rest its futurology.
Mourinho teams - at least the ones that actually lift the European Cup - were never dominant and by no means did they have the said artistic note for their exhibitions, but they were efective and knew how to drill out a result. In fact he didnt won his champions league groups in his Inter run to glory or in his Oporto run. As you can see in the Inter results bellow he didnt even won is three first group games with Inter and was losing 1-0 in Kiev in his fourth game until very close to the end... Mourinho has proved many times in the past that his teams can win major honors withouth being considered the favorite and withouth being playing an attractive brand of football. So I believe we should all focus in supporting the team and leave the knifes in the drawer at least untill the end of the season.
Internazionale
0-0 BarcelonaRubin
1-1 InternazionaleInternazionale
2-2 Dynamo KyivDynamo Kyiv
1-2 InternazionaleWe aren’t going to win the title under this one. Might as well get someone who can get the squad playing better football while we’re at it.
Also the manager looking to progress in the UCL with a smaller budget and squad and tougher fixture, also the manager who finished runner up in the title race last season.
I'm not fully sold on Pochettino, but at least we can see he has a plan on the pitch that can actually work, and he can get a side playing as a team. Can you imagine Spurs with Martial, Pogba, DDG as well as Sanchez!
So basically you think Mourinho is doing a better job at United than Poch is at Spurs? If not I'm not sure what your point is here. And if you do think that then I'd question what you've been smoking
It's his second season for feck sake. We're second to another world class manager who has spent £480m on a squad that was already far better than Uniteds. Jose's spent £310m. Maybe give him time to complete the job?
Pochettino is in his fourth season with Spurs now and still hasn't won anything. You can argue that he's spent less but the likes of Kane, Vertonghen, Erikson, Dembele and Lloris who make up the core of his squad were already there. If Mourinho had Kane, Vertonghen and Erikson he might not have spent the best part of £200m on Lukaku, Bailly and Pogba.
See above, it's his fourth season with the club. He's done well in the league, no denying that but he's sacrificed every cup run for it. We basically had to drop the priority of the league last season and focus on the EL due to injuries and it paid off. We have two trophies in the cabinet and are in the Champions League this season.
We're also second and as I said in another thread, our poor form consists of away losses to Spurs and Newcastle and an away draw to a revitalised Sevilla in a tough stadium. So in the last 10 games, aside from those three mentioned we've won all 7 of them scoring 16 and conceded 0.
Time for a bit of fecking perspective, please? Our midfield has been riddled with injuries for months and we're now trying to introduce Sanchez. It's no surprise things are a bit disjointed at the moment.
He's delivered success and Poch for all his plaudits hasn't. At the end of the day when I walk into the Old Trafford museum, I don't see a bunch of awards for "Most Entertaining" in the Premier League, FA Cup, EFL Cup, CL, EL etc. Hell we've a great chance of winning at least one trophy and being successful again this year. For all of the praise that Poch has received, I'd rather have José as in my opinion I don't want to win the people's choice award I want at least the FA Cup.
Since Jose has arrived what has our form been like vs the top 6 sides? Yes we are pretty good until we play a side which is capable of playing decent football then we look utter shite.
However asides from the results, we don't look like a functioning team, we beat poorer sides because of the sheer quality we have on the pitch and not because we are a good football team. This is why when we play any good side, we struggle and we struggle badly.
On the other hand the other manager yes 4 years at Spurs, where were Spurs 4 years ago?
Do they have the squad depth to compete in the league and the cups? No not really, I think they reached the FA cup semi last season as well as coming second.
This season they have improved again league forms suffers a bit but they are now competing in the UCL and the league, the improvements as he builds the squad are clear.
Now as I said again, I am not fully sold on Poch, however his team look like a team, they also compete, without much squad depth. We on the other hand do not look like a team, and we usually win due to having some brilliant individual players, despite having the second best squad in the league.
Were you at the thirsty bear last game?
One manager is on the up, the other on the wane.
Mourinho has always been lauded for his instant success not long term project. Now if one had to analyse on both fronts, then is difficult to argue if he has delivered on that promise.
We generally can't see what the plan and purpose is. He comes out to criticise atmosphere but how difficult it is to cheer a team that can't even get you up your seat. Everything seems slow, passive and reactive. We need some excitement!
My general view about his long term future is not good, because once you begin to pick fights or trying to make your better players look bad, once you begin to make it difficult for players to build momentum i.e Shaw then the whole team becomes disjointed.
Someone argued that Debruyne was doing well in Worlsburg before his city move but he has moved up 2 levels playing in a more deeper role since Pep came in. Is very had to see any of our players who have moved up levels since Mourinho took over.
No team can have 11 world class players in all positions; Sane, Sterling, Salah, Mane have all become better under different managers, whereas ours have become worse. There is only one conclusion; the manager. Even the players he has brought in himself have looked subpar.
The truth is Jose needs to take a hard look at himself and see if he really has lost touch with the game. Any team that cone put 2 passes together in midfield just cut us open.
No matter how people want to analyze his time here so far, if they are sincere they will agree that it has been underwelming or perhaps short of the expectations.
We don't just look like building anything!!!
Mourinho has always been lauded for his instant success not long term project. Now if one had to analyse on both fronts, then is difficult to argue if he has delivered on that promise.
We generally can't see what the plan and purpose is. He comes out to criticise atmosphere but how difficult it is to cheer a team that can't even get you up your seat. Everything seems slow, passive and reactive. We need some excitement!
My general view about his long term future is not good, because once you begin to pick fights or trying to make your better players look bad, once you begin to make it difficult for players to build momentum i.e Shaw then the whole team becomes disjointed.
Someone argued that Debruyne was doing well in Worlsburg before his city move but he has moved up 2 levels playing in a more deeper role since Pep came in. Is very had to see any of our players who have moved up levels since Mourinho took over.
No team can have 11 world class players in all positions; Sane, Sterling, Salah, Mane have all become better under different managers, whereas ours have become worse. There is only one conclusion; the manager. Even the players he has brought in himself have looked subpar.
The truth is Jose needs to take a hard look at himself and see if he really has lost touch with the game. Any team that cone put 2 passes together in midfield just cut us open.
No matter how people want to analyze his time here so far, if they are sincere they will agree that it has been underwelming or perhaps short of the expectations.
We don't just look like building anything!!!
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Too much knee jerk.. recent performances have been bad but thats how we play in the away games. We never play beautifully on away turfs and always win ugly. We have only played at home once in last 7 games so people are getting a bit frustrated (rightfully so) because of the performances.
Few home games, few wins and we will be fine.
That's what I hope.
Few home games, few wins and we will be fine.
That's what I hope.
if we beat liverpool and chelsea everyone will calm down. IF
I still want him gone
I do think you're overrating many of our defensive players bar DDG - I don't put much stock in the fact we have a number of 'seasoned international' CBs, international form means nada at club level. Our fbs are not elite level either and I do include Valencia in that assessment now - he's been solid for us but isn't a natural RB and also seems to have developed a long term niggling injury.
However, I'd agree that if you look at our attacking players on previous form and reputation, we are immensely disappointing. We are very unbalanced (and therefore quite easy to defend against) and I think most defenses know that Lukaku isn't actually that difficult to stop as long as you double up on him (which is easy as he's normally completely isolated). I think vs Spurs he was actually tripled up on such was our disinterest in any kind of attacking play.
Can we all agree that rebuilding job was always going to be difficult after last few seasons? . We are in great great position across all competition bar league cup. All of clubs bar one would gladly swap our position to theirs. We should be ecstatic with the way this season is going.
Nope, haven't been to one since the group stages in October i think.
You're the good luck charm. We need ya
100% win record
If United make it past the quarters, i am in
Just a bit busy juggling with work, sleep & baby. Things might be better settled by then.People say we're playing like a bunch of individuals and a not a team. I'd agree. There is a problem when players don't listen to the Manager and play to their own style/liking. Pogba seems to be the key example of this and Jose was right to tell him to look at the sign on the door. You play they way the Manager tells you to play. Jose has won numerous titles in numourous leagues with numerous teams. Play for the manager, play as a team.
Which manager won two trophies last year? Which is the most successful active manager in Europe?
They do, for the most part, Pogba but his last 3 matches have been poor. It's a recent thing, which means that they're probably getting tired of playing awful football when they know they could be playing a lot better under a more attacking manager.
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