Jose Mourinho | 2017/18 Assessments | Poll Added

[Craig Ward]

I think the problem lies deeper than that.

Moyes tried, LVG tried, Mourinho tried and we're still shit at attacking, something is fundamentally rotten with our players' mindset. I don't think it's that simple of Mourinho didn't tell them to attack. And that's not me defending Mourinho, I just don't think the next manager comes in, lay out his plan and suddenly we're transformed into a free flowing football.

I give you Moyes probably just a bad manager, but LVG/Mourinho aren't stupid chumps, if they can't make us work then IMHO there's something wrong it's more than simply them not being told to attack.

Barcelona / Madrid changes manager almost every 2 years, but their attacking football remains intact. We changed manager every 2 season and we're still miles behind.

Put mourinho managing City he'll show some attacking flair, but put pep in our current squad we will probably be served with the same shite of disjointed football. Swap Mourinho with Zidane/Klopp/Pochetinno and he'll have a capable working squad while the swapee will look clueless managing our squad.

You might not believe it, but god forbid mourinho is sacked I bet the next manager whoever that is won't fare much different than him.

All players in our attacking line up have shown at other clubs or under other managers here that they CAN play fluid attacking football.

Lukaku - shown at everton/west brom he is a capable striker, strengths are leading the line, getting in beyond. Relies on service. We lump long balls to him playing him as a target man.
Martial - Excels on the left, can take players on. One of our key attackers. We rotate him, switch him to the right, put emphasis on defensive work rather than attacking
Rahsford - Is a central striker. Abundance of pace. We play him wide right, wide left.
Sanchez = Top class forward. Relies on freedom to drift. Can play left, right or central. We play him on the left only and offer him no freedom to roam.
Lingard = Fringe player who is best used as a #10, we often use him wide. Has hit form, but rotated often.
Mata = very good technically, best as a #10. We use him wide right only.

So I disagree - I could almost guarantee that any of pep, klopp, pochetino would have us playing better attacking football.

Half our problem is the manager uses players out of position, and sets up SO defensively that our attackers don't get the opportunity to do what they are best at.

We have no link up from midfield to attack, and Jose is misusing Lukaku as a target man I'm afraid.

Like another poster aluded too, having a good defensive does not sacrifice your attack. You can be solid at the back and have an element of attacking flair.

It's painful to watch our attacker be so misused and given no instruction to attack, only to defend. Every attacker at this club has got worse under Jose, and I'd put that down to tactics and Jose's instruction to the players

 

[FootyGirl88]

Football evolves and that may explain both struggles. LVG was sacked by Bayern, the Netherland side were mostly awful to watch also.
Mourinho has also taken over the youngest attack in his career. Before Sanchez arrived the average age was in the early 20s.
It follows Hazard's claim that Mourinho doesn't really coach the attacking side of things, as I think he expects then to figure things out.
I'm not sure that is an option for young attackers.
Just look at some of the things lacking in our play, I am convinced they won't be the case if the manager lay emphasis on them.
Even with the same set of attackers, can you imagine we'd be this passive (lack of movement and aggression)with Pochettino as manager?
I can't.

The bold bit isn't really a problem as such as Rooney said pretty much the same happened under SAF, he mentioned it when he was MNF, i'm still a newbie so i can't post the link.

I do feel we need to be coached better on the attacking side of our game as we definitely lack direction, but i do wonder about the overall intelligence of our attacking players.

 

[Sky1981]

All players in our attacking line up have shown at other clubs or under other managers here that they CAN play fluid attacking football.

Lukaku - shown at everton/west brom he is a capable striker, strengths are leading the line, getting in beyond. Relies on service. We lump long balls to him playing him as a target man.
Martial - Excels on the left, can take players on. One of our key attackers. We rotate him, switch him to the right, put emphasis on defensive work rather than attacking
Rahsford - Is a central striker. Abundance of pace. We play him wide right, wide left.
Sanchez = Top class forward. Relies on freedom to drift. Can play left, right or central. We play him on the left only and offer him no freedom to roam.
Lingard = Fringe player who is best used as a #10, we often use him wide. Has hit form, but rotated often.
Mata = very good technically, best as a #10. We use him wide right only.

So I disagree - I could almost guarantee that any of pep, klopp, pochetino would have us playing better attacking football.

Half our problem is the manager uses players out of position, and sets up SO defensively that our attackers don't get the opportunity to do what they are best at.

We have no link up from midfield to attack, and Jose is misusing Lukaku as a target man I'm afraid.

Like another poster aluded too, having a good defensive does not sacrifice your attack. You can be solid at the back and have an element of attacking flair.

It's painful to watch our attacker be so misused and given no instruction to attack, only to defend. Every attacker at this club has got worse under Jose, and I'd put that down to tactics and Jose's instruction to the players

Tbf almost every attacking player becomes a shit version of themselves after joining us.

Herrera
Pogba
Shaw
Fellaini
Lukaku
Bfs
Morgan
Di maria
Sanchez
Mkhitaryan

They all used to be a proper player but somehow looks lost upon joining united. So much that it's beggar belief they could become shit over night.

 

[Adisa]

Pochetinno will change us, no doubt about that. I just think he won't fully get the same result he wanted with our squad. Same manager same tactical approach but with us our team would somehow play very differently with his Tottenham team.

This could be the post saf influence, it's so huge that any manager comes in wouldn't be able to change thing instantlt

With all due respect, I can't agree.
There isn't a mythical force preventing us from playing good football.
There are obvious flaws in our game that everyone can see, preventing us from doing that.
Our results aren't that bad even.
My main gripe is that, I'm convinced this team is a lot better than what it's showing. I think we have some very good players who happen to all be underperforming at the same time.
Just imagine if Pogba, Lukaku, Matic Sanchez and Martial were all playing at their maximum.
I'm not one for blaming managers. My default view is that players should take responsibility for their performance.
But I also believe attacking players should be given the platform to play at their maximum.
Looking at the talent we have in our side, I don't see how constantly conceding territory and building attacks from such a low block gives them that platform. The ball takes too long to reach them.

 

[Adisa]

The bold bit isn't really a problem as such as Rooney said pretty much the same happened under SAF, he mentioned it when he was MNF, i'm still a newbie so i can't post the link.

I do feel we need to be coached better on the attacking side of our game as we definitely lack direction, but i do wonder about the overall intelligence of our attacking players.

It's worked for Mourinho also.
But I keep going back to the same issue.
Football evolves. How many managers adopt ed the high press a decade ago?

 

[L1nk]

This whole philosophy crap is annoying when you consider other managers have gone into teams and only taken a season or 2 to fully implement themselves on that team, Klopp at Dortmund and Liverpool, Pochettino and Southampton and Tottenham, Guardiola at Bayern and City, Tuchel at Mainz and Dortmund, Conte at Chelsea.

For us, everytime, it's "well the manager needs more time to implement philosophy, "we need another year or 2 of rebuilding" it's an excuse simple as that, no other club seemingly needs to go through such a daunting rebuild whenever they get a new manager and yet we always seem to need to, surely you see its just an excuse now, excuses, excuses, excuses. If we let Mourinho stay and spend another crap tonne of money i guarantee next season we won't look any better on the pitch as a team we'll just have some better individuals. Perhaps what we should be doing is, instead of hiring these pragmatic types that give virtually nobody any joy on the pitch, we hire an attacking manager that will give people joy watching us again, no im not asking for.us to win every match and cup there is, im simply requesting some enjoyment in watching Manchester United again, i simply have no desire to see the once brilliant attacking identity "erased" at this club to make way for this absolute garbage football, nobody should.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

I think the problem lies deeper than that.

Moyes tried, LVG tried, Mourinho tried and we're still shit at attacking, something is fundamentally rotten with our players' mindset. I don't think it's that simple of Mourinho didn't tell them to attack. And that's not me defending Mourinho, I just don't think the next manager comes in, lay out his plan and suddenly we're transformed into a free flowing football.

I give you Moyes probably just a bad manager, but LVG/Mourinho aren't stupid chumps, if they can't make us work then IMHO there's something wrong it's more than simply them not being told to attack.

Barcelona / Madrid changes manager almost every 2 years, but their attacking football remains intact. We changed manager every 2 season and we're still miles behind.

Put mourinho managing City he'll show some attacking flair, but put pep in our current squad we will probably be served with the same shite of disjointed football. Swap Mourinho with Zidane/Klopp/Pochetinno and he'll have a capable working squad while the swapee will look clueless managing our squad.

You might not believe it, but god forbid mourinho is sacked I bet the next manager whoever that is won't fare much different than him.

Of course, we won't. But it's a standard in the modern western world, when things go south, to always try and find the "bad guy" who must take all the blame. In football, that guy is almost always the manager because he's just one person and therefore he's easier to be replaced. Just take a look at how Zidane is being treated after winning back to back CL titles. A part of me wants United and Mourinho to part ways with the type of manager that most people desire getting appointed. Because if the fundamental issues within our team take us closer to Arsenal than to City and Liverpool (a possbility no one seems willing to consider), then we'll finally run out excuses.

The problem with Mourinho is that we're half-way through his initial three-year contract and we don't seem to have progressed enough. And when i say progress, i mean us becoming a really good Mourinho side. Next May he'll be here for two whole seasons. Is the defence stable? No, it isn't. Nevermind the fact that we still rely on players like Smalling, Jones and makeshift full-backs to get the job done. Is the midfield sorted out? Can't say it is. We'll probably be looking to sign a player who'll do the job he thought Pogba would do and paid 90 odd million for it. As for the attack? Feck the moaning about the lack of an attacking plan just for a second and answer me this: What's the point of adding attacking/creative players who want the ball at their feet and are better at creating chances for themselves (Sanchez) to an attack that doesn't lack this type (Martial, Rashford) while your main forward flourishes when he's fed the ball too. The only way they'll be able to work patterns by themselves (which is Jose's plan in the final third) is if UEFA and the FA allow us to play with two or three balls.

You expect from a manager of Mourinho's calibre to get the simple things right. Sometimes understanding that 1+1=2 and trying to work toward that is all you need. And i'm not talking about his utilization of Pogba. I argued in several threads that thinking that a player with Pogba's abilities can become a world-class b2b midfielder isn't high treason like some want to think. But the lack of width? The disjointed attack? You think that he would have sorted that out by now. We ended 2015/16 with Lingard and Mata trying to provide all the off the ball movement in the attacking half. We are about to end 2017/18 in exactly the same predicament. Why's that, i honestly can't tell. For example, Salah is having the season of his life because Firmino as the forward is very good at working the spaces between the lines and at doing one-twos with the wide attackers with a minimum of one or two touches. If you put Lukaku in there, Liverpool will look disjointed. In fact, they did last season when Klopp experimented with Firmino in a wide role. But he immediately changed it back. See? 1+1=2, the simple things.

While i agree with the notion that any new manager will need time to sort things out, this shouldn't be the case with a team who has Mourinho as its manager. He should be doing better.

 

[Garethw]

Matic, Pogba, Herrera, McTominay, Mata, Lukaku, Sanchez - none of them played for SAF (except Pogba as a kid in 2-3 games).

How does it take years to erase philosophy that isn't even there?

Exactly, and why is it that other clubs don’t have this issue?

It seems to be more an excuse to cover the fact that the club has appointed the wrong manager three times in a row now.

 

[Adnan]

The thing is there's no guarantee an attacking coach can better our result, while it might look prettier but result wise nothing is guaranteed. And changing managers at this point isn't without its own risk, the next manager is still a 50/50 gamble, there's no guarantee our squad will buy his tactics, or that he has the right personnel, etc.

Answer this honestly, would you be happy if we play attacking football and finished 5th? I'm not happy with our football at the moment, but at least we have the pts, the next manager may not have both.

I honestly think we'd easily finish 2nd with a attacking coach like Tuchel with our financial resources. The only difference would be that we'd have many games in the season under Tuchel that would live long in the memory and he'd get more out of our attacking players like Martial and Pogba...

 

[Raees]

I honestly think we'd easily finish 2nd with a attacking coach like Tuchel with our financial resources. The only difference would be that we'd have many games in the season under Tuchel that would live long in the memory and he'd get more out of our attacking players like Martial and Pogba...

FWIW I agree.

I don't think people realise we had clowns like Moyes and LVG in charge. Anyone with half decent pedigree could have improved on them, so considering how much we have spent.. Jose's achievements are actually par for the course, and I genuinely think any talented manager would with the resources at our disposal be closer to City and have us playing way better than we are currently seeing.

 

[Sweet Square]

So far my overall feelings are Mourinho is doing perfectly fine job.

 

[Garethw]

So far my overall feelings are Mourinho is doing perfectly fine job.

Are you happy with the football being played?

When an entire team is playing like shit over a sustained period of time then the manager has to take the blame.

With the squad and resources available, Mourinho is doing far from a perfectly fine job.

 

[Member 5225]

If we injected our league standing into literally any other season we’d be there or thereabouts (6pts off 2016/2017, joint top 2015/2016, etc).

Let’s put it into perspective here!

 

[Fergie's gum]

It's as if the players don't train together. No cohesiveness. Set pieces are a joke. We used to get excited when the opposition would win a corner, as it would likely lead to a counter attack resulting in a goal.
This is the epitome of "sh*t on a stick" football and Mourinho is the one responsible. I can't imagine what Fergie must be thinking.

 

[L1nk]

If we injected our league standing into literally any other season we’d be there or thereabouts (6pts off 2016/2017, joint top 2015/2016, etc).

Let’s put it into perspective here!

The perspective for me is we are 2nd by a couple of points, even though teams around us have done quite badly, and we're still in a position in which we could still end up outside the Top 4. It also gets rid of the fact that, well, if not for De Gea we'd be in a considerably worse situation.

 

[Minimalist]

1 shot on target last night. Thought we sacked Van Gaal?

I can only assume people are supporting United through a spreadsheet because the only progress I see is on paper. If you watch our matches - I can't fathom how you can feel positive about where things are going in the long-term.

 

[Adisa]

If we injected our league standing into literally any other season we’d be there or thereabouts (6pts off 2016/2017, joint top 2015/2016, etc).

Let’s put it into perspective here!

As I've said many times. My gripe isn't really the results.
I can't shake the feeling we aren't getting the best out of the squad we have at the moment.
You say those things and you're right but which player can you say is in form at the moment?
This team short comfortably be in second place playing much better football.

 

[meninred]

I have joined the club that believes that as sucessful as mouriniho is the game has evolved and left him behind.

 

[haram]

1 shot on target last night. Thought we sacked Van Gaal?

I can only assume people are supporting United through a spreadsheet because the only progress I see is on paper. If you watch our matches - I can't fathom how you can feel positive about where things are going in the long-term.

Our home form is good, when teams sit deep we break them down. We wasn't doing that last year. The problem this year is away from home, dealing with the press, the transition from defence into attack from deeper areas and our counters.

 

[Womp]

I'm a big fan of Jose but he simply needs to improve things now. Results are still pretty good, but we need them to start converting into top trophy challenges.

 

[Fergies Formula]

I like Jose and have supported him for as long as I can, but his time here is up.

He produces the same boring, uninspiring tumescent football. We are miles behind city, play poor football and it doesn't look like changing. He used to be a revolutionist but there is nothing fresh about his approach. Our recruitment policy is bizarre, the way we have purchased Sanchez, with the idea of proving our starting 11, the proceed to drop our most productive attacking player just highlights the mentality of the man. Again, look at Lindeloff, Matic, Mykitarian, these players aren't good enough. He hasn't galvanised the team and there is by no means a clear vision that we can see is trying to be implemented.

This is Man Utd, we expect to be entertained and this is the reason for the unrest. He doesn't seem to grasp the ethos of the club and his approach is the exact opposite of what we represent.

Sorry Jose but you have lost my support.

 

[MackRobinson]

Put mourinho managing City he'll show some attacking flair, but put pep in our current squad we will probably be served with the same shite of disjointed football. Swap Mourinho with Zidane/Klopp/Pochetinno and he'll have a capable working squad while the swapee will look clueless managing our squad.

You might not believe it, but god forbid mourinho is sacked I bet the next manager whoever that is won't fare much different than him.

This has to be a joke right?

You are talking as if Manchester United have shit attacking options. Pogba, Sanchez, and Martial would all surely thrive under Pep. I would add Mata and Herrera to that list as well. Hell, I think the entire team sans a few players would look miles better on the attacking end. This notion that the attacking players are so shite, that you can't blame Mourinho is a joke of an excuse. We are talking about one of the most expensive teams in world football, not Everton. This team has enough attacking talent to dominate or at least put pressure on the likes of Sevilla. I saw nothing of the sort yesterday.

 

[R'hllor]

This is some next level shit, laughing at people in match day thread then this. Personally, i dont even demand a entertaining, ultra mega fluid attacking football but can we at least get basic mid range football? Like, string 3 passes together, not to pass sideways back sideways back to DDG so he can just punt it long.

 

[redIndianDevil]

Even Spurs had a go at the fecking Bernabeau against the current CL champions. Yet people defend this nonesense with 'typical European away performance'.We're second best away to EVERYBODY!

Yeah apparently that doesn't count to Mourinho fanboys here, apparently Pochettino hasn't won a cup so his teams' performance against Madrid doesn't count.

 

[Sweet Square]

Are you happy with the football being played?

When an entire team is playing like shit over a sustained period of time then the manager has to take the blame.

With the squad and resources available, Mourinho is doing far from a perfectly fine job.

I find the football to be a bit rubbish, with United just about doing enough to keep my eyes looking at the screen. But it's been like that for a while even during the last of the Fergie days - overall performances being quite dull but with moments of magic to keep things ticking over.

The league is really the only disappointment but even then considering the form City have been in, I find the league position hardly worth being annoyed about. We've got a good FA Cup tie that should put us in the semi finals and last performance was pretty standard for away CL game.

So far not a great or good season but nothing to worry about(So far).

 

[JoaquinJoaquin]

I think the problem lies deeper than that.

Put mourinho managing City he'll show some attacking flair, but put pep in our current squad we will probably be served with the same shite of disjointed football.

You might not believe it, but god forbid mourinho is sacked I bet the next manager whoever that is won't fare much different than him.

Some of the Pep love on this forum is well overboard, but at the same time if you truly believe that statement bolded then you may be deluded.

 

[redIndianDevil]

We don't need super ball playing CB, I can agree. However, for a CB to pass to the feet of our forward, when our midfielder, wide players who closer to the forwards can't do that, do you think a CB with average ability on ball can execute?

You don't really need Maldinis and Beckenbauers to play a high line. Sevilla perfectly managed a high line yesterday, they don't have any world class players. You just need a manager who prefers a high line that is all, if Smalling is so poor at even passing the ball, how the hell did he look like an excellent player under LvG who employed a high line and was incredibly anal about his defenders needing to bring the ball out from the back?

 

[Greck]

Some of the Pep love on this forum is well overboard, but at the same time if you truly believe that statement bolded then you may be deluded.

Especially ridiculous because both managers had a hand in shaping their respective teams. For example Pep would never buy Lukaku for any price

 

[diplomat]

If we injected our league standing into literally any other season we’d be there or thereabouts (6pts off 2016/2017, joint top 2015/2016, etc).

Let’s put it into perspective here!

And if we didn't have DDG in goal but any other GK out there, we would be on Arsenal's level and points.

 

[JohnnyKills]

1 shot on target last night. Thought we sacked Van Gaal?

I can only assume people are supporting United through a spreadsheet because the only progress I see is on paper. If you watch our matches - I can't fathom how you can feel positive about where things are going in the long-term.

This.

People who trot out stats are ignoring the reality. That things are getting worse rather than better.

We may be second in the league but that's mainly due to our blistering start. We got 19 points from the first seven games and 23 from the first 10. At that stage it looked like United and City were in an echelon above the rest.

Since then we've got 33 points from 17 games; if that form were repeated over the entire season we'd be out of the top four. Everyone else has caught us up, and all the other clubs around us have had genuinely brilliant performances in that time. What have we managed? A victory at Arsenal where our goalkeeper was the MOTM?

The graph is pointing downwards at the moment, and if the apologists want to throw stats around then they should think about the fact that, Yeovil aside, we've scored five goals in our last six games.

I really hope JM comes good and starts producing some good attacking football, but I'm getting the same feeling I had when things went pear-shaped for Moyes and LVG, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

 

[Oldyella]

things are getting worse rather than better.

I really hope JM comes good and starts producing some good attacking football, but I'm getting the same feeling I had when things went pear-shaped for Moyes and LVG, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

Nope, same here. I have been all for Mourinho but it's hard to look past the downturn in performances as the season has progressed. Similar happened last year too, but we had the cup run in Europe to gloss over things. I just dont see any style of play with us, good or bad, we are just, there.

 

[Canagel]

It's as if the players don't train together. No cohesiveness. Set pieces are a joke. We used to get excited when the opposition would win a corner, as it would likely lead to a counter attack resulting in a goal.
This is the epitome of "sh*t on a stick" football and Mourinho is the one responsible. I can't imagine what Fergie must be thinking.

I wonder how he stays motivated to watch our games these days. Every game he is in the stands and we consistently produce shite football. The glory days of his era seem like a long time ago.

 

[Hawks2008]

At this rate I honestly feel like we could miss out on top 4. That should be unthinkable considering we've been top 2 all season and at one point had a big buffer between us and 3rd. But fair play to Mourinho, he couldn't give us a title race so he's giving us a top 4 race instead.

 

[Nuts]

Some of the Pep love on this forum is well overboard, but at the same time if you truly believe that statement bolded then you may be deluded.

I just struggle to see, sometimes, the effect Mourinho is having. At City you can point to so many things - Pep stuck to his guns on the goalkeeper front, in the face of mass criticism last year, and has sorted that position out. The disaster people expected their central defence to be this season hasn’t happened. We all know what he expects from wing backs and he’s gone and sorted that. He’s worked Aguero into the team and got that situation back from Aguero’s exit looking pretty certain. He’s got Sterling playing so consistently and with decent end product and he’s got De Bruyne to carry his form on into the PL. Even fringe guys like Gundogan are always slowly improving.

You put that energy and skill set to work on our squad and I’ve no doubt you’d see an uplift.

With Jose I see the same thing constantly - taking a player out of the team to see if there’s a reaction, and then putting them back. I must be missing something, but I don’t see progress, or players comfortable in a system or any of the great attacking players we’ve got expressing themselves.

 

[whatwha]

There are many things to worry about with this Utd team and Jose, but let's please take into consideration that 6 of the last 7 games have been away fixtures. We're always a bit shit away. Right now everything seems extra dreary because we've had so little home football to break up the away football for over a month.

 

[Member 5225]

And if we didn't have DDG in goal but any other GK out there, we would be on Arsenal's level and points.

and if we didn't have Jose he might not have hung around...

 

[diplomat]

and if we didn't have Jose he might not have hung around...

DDG might still not hang around, especially if we finish outside the top 4 for another consecutive year and miss on the CL yet again.

 

[Member 5225]

DDG might still not hang around, especially if we finish outside the top 4 for another consecutive year and miss on the CL yet again.

This convo could go on in a loop....

 

[diplomat]

This convo could go on in a loop....

I'm just saying that it's a big possibility right now, because we are facing another top 4 battle and it will be ugly, I'm 100% convinced.

I supported Jose so far, was extremely happy with the new contract but we have been showing no signs of improvement since the City defeat - on the contrary, we have been slipping ever since. Don't want yet another manager to fail but we can't be sentimental just for the sake of it. If the team becomes unhappy with the way we play, just like it was with Moyes and LVG, the buck stops at Mourinho and he needs to take the blame for not being able to create a proper team.

 

[Member 5225]

I'm just saying that it's a big possibility right now, because we are facing another top 4 battle and it will be ugly, I'm 100% convinced.

I supported Jose so far, was extremely happy with the new contract but we have been showing no signs of improvement since the City defeat - on the contrary, we have been slipping ever since. Don't want yet another manager to fail but we can't be sentimental just for the sake of it. If the team becomes unhappy with the way we play, just like it was with Moyes and LVG, the buck stops at Mourinho and he needs to take the blame for not being able to create a proper team.

Literally how can you say that?
Seems you don't even agree that we are building (albeit slowly) in the right direction?