Jonny Evans - What do we think?

justboy68 said:
Never understood why some people think he is crap, Evans is a very good centre back. I think he will be the leader of the back line if we don't bring in another top class defender. Evans as the mainstay and Jones/Smalling/Keane(?) coming in depending on opponents/form.
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From a neutral perspective, it is probably this point which would worry me the most as United supporter. Evans is a solid defender and good passer, but he never striked me as someone with a lot of presence on the pitch who could lead and organise a defense. If I compare him to other defensive lead players like Silva, Hummels, Ramos, Mertesacker or Kompany he simply lacks in that department. It is also not like he is a talent, who could grow into that role. I also think that the defense line is the team part which profits the most from an actual leader.

In difference to Smalling, who could become the pacy partner of defensive lead figure, I don´t see him as first choice for a club like United in the long run. A good 3rd CB, but nothing more.
 
Its crazy that some people think he's completely useless and the rest think he's world class. I think he's pretty good, like one of the better centre halves in the premier league. However, he has problems with his game just like any other player.
 
I had a chat with a fellow United supporting mate yesterday. He's convinced Evans is gash. After several back and forths, he conceded that his opinion is all based on his first few years in the team when he made some silly errors. Evans has been our best CB for about 2 years now. I hope we can get someone solid in to complement him along with Smalling & Jones. I think he can become one of the best CBs in the world over the next 2 years. At least, that's my hope.
 
Rykker_4united said:
Its crazy that some people think he's completely useless and the rest think he's world class. I think he's pretty good, like one of the better centre halves in the premier league. However, he has problems with his game just like any other player.
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That's because people compare him to Vidic-Ferdinand (the duo) not even each players separately but how they play as a tandem. They seems to forget that Ferdinand and Vidic weren't perfect (vidic is heavy on the ball and Ferdinand couldn't mark a player until he reached 31 years old).

Evans is a very good defender when he's helped by his fullback and the midfield, he has one default though, he presses to far when his midfield is inexistant, he needs to be more patient sometimes.
 
Stretch said:
I had a chat with a fellow United supporting mate yesterday. He's convinced Evans is gash. After several back and forths, he conceded that his opinion is all based on his first few years in the team when he made some silly errors. Evans has been our best CB for about 2 years now. I hope we can get someone solid in to complement him along with Smalling & Jones. I think he can become one of the best CBs in the world over the next 2 years. At least, that's my hope.
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I don't think he can be one of the best in the world. He's not good when facing someone quick and fast running at him, and he still struggles against big, strong target men who know what they're doing. However, he's very good at mopping up the mess, intercepting passes, reading the game, and playing the ball out from the back. He's better off with someone who's a good man-marker (like Jones or Smalling).
 
mazhar13 said:
I don't think he can be one of the best in the world. He's not good when facing someone quick and fast running at him, and he still struggles against big, strong target men who know what they're doing. However, he's very good at mopping up the mess, intercepting passes, reading the game, and playing the ball out from the back. He's better off with someone who's a good man-marker (like Jones or Smalling).
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You don't need to have all required qualities you've described to be the best. Looking around World Football there aren't that many great CBs around. Evans can become a great ball playing CB. Vida struggled vs quick players, Rio wasn't a great tackler, but they made up for it with other sides to the their games. I think if he has a solid partner next to him and plays to his strengths, he can be among the best in world football.
 
Stretch said:
I had a chat with a fellow United supporting mate yesterday. He's convinced Evans is gash. After several back and forths, he conceded that his opinion is all based on his first few years in the team when he made some silly errors. Evans has been our best CB for about 2 years now. I hope we can get someone solid in to complement him along with Smalling & Jones. I think he can become one of the best CBs in the world over the next 2 years. At least, that's my hope.
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No chance. I actually like him I think hes a nice guy and a committed player but he simply is not that good. The defence as a whole is quite poor right now and I'd say he was the most reliable and experienced there so hes a definite starter should LVG not make anymore signings but I bet you any money he will sort it out before September the 2nd.
 
Stretch said:
You don't need to have all required qualities you've described to be the best. Looking around World Football there aren't that many great CBs around. Evans can become a great ball playing CB. Vida struggled vs quick players, Rio wasn't a great tackler, but they made up for it with other sides to the their games. I think if he has a solid partner next to him and plays to his strengths, he can be among the best in world football.
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For me, the only two best defenders in the world are Hummels and Thiago Silva. The rest are below that standard. Having said that, if Evans is only worse off than those two, then that isn't too bad for us.
 
mazhar13 said:
For me, the only two best defenders in the world are Hummels and Thiago Silva. The rest are below that standard. Having said that, if Evans is only worse off than those two, then that isn't too bad for us.
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And Kompany is a flan ? :D
 
ItsEssexRob said:
No chance. I actually like him I think hes a nice guy and a committed player but he simply is not that good. The defence as a whole is quite poor right now and I'd say he was the most reliable and experienced there so hes a definite starter should LVG not make anymore signings but I bet you any money he will sort it out before September the 2nd.
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I agree he's not that good currently but he can become that good with a solid partner. As I've said before, there aren't that many great CBs around as it is. Maybe I'm being a bit too optimistic
 
Sammyjunn said:
Evans very good? It is oke to rate him but very good? If he is very good what is Cahill? Perfect?

Seriously thinking this lad is rated pure because he is from our academy, Clev and Welbz are also too highly rated in the CAF.
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That is one hell of an idiotic comment, well done.
 
Anyone expecting him to be a starter under Van Gaal? His our only defender who can play out from the back to.
 
I think that a lot of views on Jonny are influenced by his boyish looks. Many on this forum seem to prefer Smalling over him although Jonny has been a step ahead of him from day one (yes he's older). I'm of the opinion he's been our best centre back for the past two years or so. I don't think he's strong enough character though to lead the line. I'd be happy to see him as our second centre back but do need someone strong to bind the last four together.
 
Sammyjunn said:
Explain, I rate Cahill much much higher than Evans, and I have noticed that our academy players are also often a bit higher rated as they should be.
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Why do you rate Cahill above Evans? I'm not disagreeing but asking why, as if it's because he get's in Chelsea's first XI...
 
Sammyjunn said:
Explain, I rate Cahill much much higher than Evans, and I have noticed that our academy players are also often a bit higher rated as they should be.
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You rate him higher, you're entitled to that opinion even if it's differing to mine. Saying that, Cahill is a very good player, both he and Evans bring different things to the team, there's not much between them though, neither are as good as Rio in his prime, but how many are.
Cahill was one of the worst players at the World Cup, he's also been fortunate enough to remain largely injury free, and has had a regular playing partner, something which Evans has very rarely had. There's plenty of mistakes in him, there's plenty of mistakes in every player, it's just we choose to see them in certain players to suit our agenda. Many forget that Evans has been our best CB for the last couple of season, he was also a big part of the defence that hold the record for consecutive clean sheets.
Cleverly is not rated on the CAF, some do, but the vast majority don't. As for Welbeck, most are hoping he's given time in his natural position, he's also still relatively young, he should be given more time to prove his worth.
 
Smalling, Jones & Evans have always looked better when paired with either Rio or Vidic, stick them together in any combination and I think we will be in trouble, hence the need for a top experienced player to come in.
 
AngeloHenriquez said:
Why do you rate Cahill above Evans? I'm not disagreeing but asking why, as if it's because he get's in Chelsea's first XI...
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Cahill is a more reliable defender with less errors than Evans, who makes every 9 games an error that leads to a goal, personal errorr. Cahill is better with attackers who are running at him with pace because he is pacey, he can handle physical stong attackers better. He is better in the air, Evans is also good in the air, but Cahill is always a really big threat and scores more goals with the heads and wins more aerial battles, Cahill is also positionally better than Evans, he has more blocks than him, that shows that he knows where the threat is. Evans is the better ball playing defender, think that is a fact
 
Such a underrated defender. I think he will be one of the first names on the team sheet next season, he's a level above Smalling and Jones.

If LVG was not bullshitting when he said that he will give anyone a chance to become captain, I believe he has a good chance to be the one, or at least vice captain. For sure better captain material than the likes of Rooney and Carrick.
 
Getsme said:
You rate him higher, you're entitled to that opinion even if it's differing to mine. Saying that, Cahill is a very good player, both he and Evans bring different things to the team, there's not much between them though, neither are as good as Rio in his prime, but how many are.
Cahill was one of the worst players at the World Cup, he's also been fortunate enough to remain largely injury free, and has had a regular playing partner, something which Evans has very rarely had. There's plenty of mistakes in him, there's plenty of mistakes in every player, it's just we choose to see them in certain players to suit our agenda. Many forget that Evans has been our best CB for the last couple of season, he was also a big part of the defence that hold the record for consecutive clean sheets.
Cleverly is not rated on the CAF, some do, but the vast majority don't. As for Welbeck, most are hoping he's given time in his natural position, he's also still relatively young, he should be given more time to prove his worth.
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Cahill was named in the team of the year this season, he was one of the best defenders in the PL, rated by the majority of the players, I dont see Evans near that level. I am not saying Evans is bad, and why would I choose to not see the bad things in Cahill and choose to see it in Evans? People are often more likely to rate their own players higher than others, except if those players have been very bad.
 
Sammyjunn said:
Cahill is a more reliable defender with less errors than Evans, who makes every 9 games an error that leads to a goal, personal errorr. Cahill is better with attackers who are running at him with pace because he is pacey, he can handle physical stong attackers better. He is better in the air, Evans is also good in the air, but Cahill is always a really big threat and scores more goals with the heads and wins more aerial battles, Cahill is also positionally better than Evans, he has more blocks than him, that shows that he knows where the threat is. Evans is the better ball playing defender, think that is a fact
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Cahill's positioning is one of the worst aspects of his game. How on earth do you put that as a strong point I don't know. He was carried by Terry last season and he is susceptible to attackers running at him with pace. He is not as good in the air as you make and he makes far more brainfarts than Evans. Not to mention he is older than Evans and there is no way I would swap Evans for Cahill.
 
Sammyjunn said:
Cahill was named in the team of the year this season, he was one of the best defenders in the PL, rated by the majority of the players, I dont see Evans near that level. I am not saying Evans is bad, and why would I choose to not see the bad things in Cahill and choose to see it in Evans? People are often more likely to rate their own players higher than others, except if those players have been very bad.
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Giggs won the Player of the Year a few seasons back when he was nowhere near the best player in the league. Not to mention, that team had Lallana ahead of the likes of Sterling.
 
NK86 said:
Cahill's positioning is one of the worst aspects of his game. How on earth do you put that as a strong point I don't know. He was carried by Terry last season and he is susceptible to attackers running at him with pace. He is not as good in the air as you make and he makes far more brainfarts than Evans. Not to mention he is older than Evans and there is no way I would swap Evans for Cahill.
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Please just explain what you are saying, it looks like loose statements while I have searched from stats at Squawka for instance, or isnt that reliable any more? It says Cahill makes no brainfarts, defensive errors, so if you can prove me different please give me an example from those brainfarts you are talking about. Cahill wins 72% of his aerial duels, and Jonny 60, quite a difference right?
 
NK86 said:
Giggs won the Player of the Year a few seasons back when he was nowhere near the best player in the league. Not to mention, that team had Lallana ahead of the likes of Sterling.
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True, but be relevant, so you dont think that Cahill should be in that team? Who in your opinion would have more chance of being there? Cahill or Evans? And eehrm I also thought Lallana was better than Sterling, there was not much between them to, but if Sterling was better it wouldnt be by a big margin so I have no idea why you are putting it up as a ridiculous decision or something.
 
Sammyjunn said:
Cahill is a more reliable defender with less errors than Evans, who makes every 9 games an error that leads to a goal, personal errorr. Cahill is better with attackers who are running at him with pace because he is pacey, he can handle physical stong attackers better. He is better in the air, Evans is also good in the air, but Cahill is always a really big threat and scores more goals with the heads and wins more aerial battles, Cahill is also positionally better than Evans, he has more blocks than him, that shows that he knows where the threat is. Evans is the better ball playing defender, think that is a fact
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Strange at first i assumed you were talking about Gary Cahill that plays for chelsea, but after reading your post it seems you are describing someone else.
 
Sammyjunn said:
True, but be relevant, so you dont think that Cahill should be in that team? Who in your opinion would have more chance of being there? Cahill or Evans? And eehrm I also thought Lallana was better than Sterling, there was not much between them to, but if Sterling was better it wouldnt be by a big margin so I have no idea why you are putting it up as a ridiculous decision or something.
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Ridiculous decision? I am saying that PFA Team of the year is not something to base your opinion on. Moreover, Evans was injured a lot last season so obviously he was not going to be there. Again, stats can only tell that much of the story. How do you know how many errors Evans makes viz a viz Cahill? How do they classify something as an error? Maybe Cahill is better aerially, but his positioning is quite awful. I am sure that can only be decided by seeing the matches instead of solely relying on stats. Don't you think?
 
NK86 said:
Ridiculous decision? I am saying that PFA Team of the year is not something to base your opinion on. Moreover, Evans was injured a lot last season so obviously he was not going to be there. Again, stats can only tell that much of the story. How do you know how many errors Evans makes viz a viz Cahill? How do they classify something as an error? Maybe Cahill is better aerially, but his positioning is quite awful. I am sure that can only be decided by seeing the matches instead of solely relying on stats. Don't you think?
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No thats not my only opinion, in the other post I gave some arguements on why I think Cahill is better than Evans, but I asked you, who would you rather put in the team of the year, if you were the only person to make a choice. Stats give a fair, and objective picture (not a complete one) of players, if we are honest, plenty of times we arent objective, and I dont think that none United fans would rate Cahill equal as Evans.And please can you clarify to me why his positioning is awful, nobody has explained and it just looks like a loose statement, or a fact based on nothing. You can compare players on Squawka, there you can also see their error rate, thats what I used.
 
Sammyjunn said:
No thats not my only opinion, in the other post I gave some arguements on why I think Cahill is better than Evans, but I asked you, who would you rather put in the team of the year, if you were the only person to make a choice. Stats give a fair, and objective picture (not a complete one) of players, if we are honest, plenty of times we arent objective, and I dont think that none United fans would rate Cahill equal as Evans.And please can you clarify to me why his positioning is awful, nobody has explained and it just looks like a loose statement, or a fact based on nothing. You can compare players on Squawka, there you can also see their error rate, thats what I used.
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Their stats are very close, though. Evans is just a way better interceptor
 
JPRouve said:
And Kompany is a flan ? :D
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I'm surprised you're only picking on me over Kompany and not over Ramos, Subotic, Varane, Garay, etc. Anyways, I can discuss this topic on another appropriate thread if you don't mind bumping it. ;)
 
mazhar13 said:
I'm surprised you're only picking on me over Kompany and not over Ramos, Subotic, Varane, Garay, etc. Anyways, I can discuss this topic on another appropriate thread if you don't mind bumping it. ;)
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I supposed that it was figure of speech. ;)
 
Sammyjunn said:
Cahill was named in the team of the year this season, he was one of the best defenders in the PL, rated by the majority of the players, I dont see Evans near that level. I am not saying Evans is bad, and why would I choose to not see the bad things in Cahill and choose to see it in Evans? People are often more likely to rate their own players higher than others, except if those players have been very bad.
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So what if he was, so was Gerrard. The year before we had Vertonghen, Carrick and Ferdinand, year before that Kyle Walker and Scott Parker.

You choose to see the mistakes in players as it suits your agenda, it's natural, I've witnessed Evans blamed for goals on this forum when it clearly wasn't his fault, I've read posts where they have blamed him for certain goals when he wasn't even playing.
Your problem is that all you can see is the negatives in Evans, that's evident in your suggestion that Cahill is far far better than him, which in truth is a fecking bizarre thing to say.
 
Sammyjunn said:
I only named the facts where I saw quite a big difference in, blocks, aerial batters, and the errors. The fact that Cahill is more pacey isnt something that you can see on squawka, or that he can handle physical players better.
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In the two last seasons they have the same number of individual errors and they are very close in the aerial duel department, 67% for Evans and 69 for Cahill, all the others stats depend too much on the teams the players play in.

For instance the blocks, Chelsea defend very well has a team with two disciplined lines, the opponents try more shots from distance (i think).
Cahill has to cover or be covered by Azpilicueta or Ivanovic, for Evans it's Evra.
 
Getsme said:
So what if he was, so was Gerrard. The year before we had Vertonghen, Carrick and Ferdinand, year before that Kyle Walker and Scott Parker.

You choose to see the mistakes in players as it suits your agenda, it's natural, I've witnessed Evans blamed for goals on this forum when it clearly wasn't his fault, I've read posts where they have blamed him for certain goals when he wasn't even playing.
Your problem is that all you can see is the negatives in Evans, that's evident in your suggestion that Cahill is far far better than him, which in truth is a fecking bizarre thing to say.
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No no no, I have said multiple times that Evans isnt a bad defender, that he is okey, if I would see only the negative things I would say that he is bad, or is that too complicated for you? I also called him a better ball playing defender or is that also negative? It's no coincidence that the CAF is the place where I have heard that Evans is very good, he is okay but nothing special imo, I rate Cahill better, and coincidentally squawka does, whoscored does.
 
JPRouve said:
In the two last seasons they have the same number of individual errors and they are very close in the aerial duel department, 67% for Evans and 69 for Cahill, all the others stats depend too much on the teams the players play in.

For instance the blocks, Chelsea defend very well has a team with two disciplined lines, the opponents try more shots from distance (i think).
Cahill has to cover or be covered by Azpilicueta or Ivanovic, for Evans it's Evra.
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Could also be true, and the thing with Evans intercepting more could also be because Chelsea has the likes of Mikel, Matic who do that work. Bit still u guys havent told me why Cahill is positionally awful.?
 
Sammyjunn said:
Could also be true, and the thing with Evans intercepting more could also be because Chelsea has the likes of Mikel, Matic who do that work. Bit still u guys havent told me why Cahill is positionally awful.?
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He doesn't read the pass very well, if you play the ball behind him he is sometimes caught too easilly which is weird since he is not bad in aerial duel.
 
Sammyjunn said:
?
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I was being a bit sarcastic there mate, seriously though i like Cahill good player but your post that i quoted described what seemed a much better player than Cahill has ever been in my opinion, i don't put much stock into stats.

Cahill along with Evans are both solid defenders, both make mistakes neither will ever be world class in my opinion but good players none the less. For me there isn't much between them, Cahill has a better injury record and is probably coming off the best season of his career under Jose conversely Evans had probably his worst season last year with injuries and the team in turmoil under Moyes. Because of this some seem to think not only is Evans crap but there are 10-20-30 better defenders than him in the league which is just not true.
 
If he stays fit consistently through the season without his perennial niggling injuries, he'll be among the topmost defenders in the league. I don't rate him as highly as some others do, but some people really underrate him as well.
 
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