[Pogue Mahone]

Why are people calling him a scapegoat? He's not been scapegoated. He has actually been complete shit this season by his own standards.

Tom Cleverley was the scapegoat last season. He got all sorts of abuse last season but at least he was doing the basics right. Evans struggles to pass the ball to his teammates these days.

A scapegoat is an individual being singled out to blame for the failings of the collective.

When you consider how crap we've defended in a 532 this season, with and without Evans, the fact he is being singled out for so much criticism is pretty much the definition of scapegoating. Even if we look at the last game alone there were some horrible individual defensive moments from Phil Jones, he was just lucky that they weren't punished by a goal. Yet this thread has far more critical comments than Jones' thread.

For the record, I think Jones is as much a victim of the system as Evans. On the plus side, his athleticism helps him adapt to the persistent chaos at the back we've seen whenever we play three central defenders. He thrives on last-ditch defending, so has actually coped admirably well, all things considered.

 

[Fergies Formula]

What a fecking dreadful post. Embarrassing.

Fixed your post for you mate, you're welcome.

I don't need you to edit my post for me, my opinion is valid even if it is cutting.

The guy hasn't played a good game in over 2 years, the standard we are supposed to set is way above the level Evans offers.

The contrast between the proposed levels we should be achieving and the actual levels he is producing is worrying. The most annoying part about Evans is his body language and the way he tries to deflect his frustrations at other players by waving his arms in the air and sulking, always looking to pass the blame and never accepting responsibility for his mistake. He needs to look in the mirror and realise his short comings. I find this particularly embarrassing.

It has become sad that a team who should embody strength, desire, intelligence, nous and every other positive adjective that should be associated with our great team, has to resort to a player of his calibre who consistently hampers the defensive side of our game.

Granted I could have extended on my original post which was short and not extensive but what else is there to say about this player that hasn't already been said?

The proof will arrive when Van Gaal gets rid of him in the summer.

Getsme how can you keep defending this guy? you have no basis for an argument and its comical seeing your endeavours to prove his rightful critics wrong, he hasn't produced anything to note in the last 3 years so surely you can see why the daggers are out.

There are at least 15 centre backs in the English league who are better than him, that alone should tell enough of the story.

 

[Nighteyes]

A scapegoat is an individual being singled out to blame for the failings of the collective.

When you consider how crap we've defended in a 532 this season, with and without Evans, the fact he is being singled out for so much criticism is pretty much the definition of scapegoating. Even if we look at the last game alone there were some horrible individual defensive moments from Phil Jones, he was just lucky that they weren't punished by a goal. Yet this thread has far more critical comments than Jones' thread.

For the record, I think Jones is as much a victim of the system as Evans. On the plus side, his athleticism helps him adapt to the persistent chaos at the back we've seen whenever we play three central defenders. He thrives on last-ditch defending, so has actually coped admirably well, all things considered.

The formation is shit, I agree with that. It does go a long way in explaining why we are a shit team defensively on the whole. What it does not explain or excuse is the inability of Evans to even do the basics right. The sort of backpasses Evans has come up with this season are the sort you see once a season. He's done it multiple times and we've not even had half a season. There's no one he can blame for that. Not the formation, not Fellaini (as indicated above).

 

[Pogue Mahone]

The formation is shit, I agree with that. It does go a long way in explaining why we are a shit team defensively on the whole. What it does not explain or excuse is the inability of Evans to even do the basics right. The sort of backpasses Evans has come up with this season are the sort you see once a season. He's done it multiple times and we've not even had half a season. There's no one he can blame for that. Not the formation, not Fellaini (as indicated above).

Yeah, agreed. I think I made that point myself a page or two back. He's made one or two absolutely outrageously bad passes in every appearance this season. There's no defending that sort of slackness. The only mitigating factor is that he's consistently been one of our better passers of the ball in previous seasons. So there's a good chance he can iron that shit out of his game.

 

[stevoc]

Even if he had been as bad as some of the exaggerated shite spewed in this thread would have you believe in the few games he's played this season which he hasn't been. He hasn't been good by any means but hes not been completely useless either.

It still wouldn't explain the venom and hatred some seem to hold for him, its odd really. Product of our academy, good servant of the club and contributor to many of the clubs success's in recent times. What am i missing? Why do some seem to actually despise the guy?

When you read randomly plucked guff like this little gem below, it makes you wonder if some people actually watch our games with any great interest or maybe they just have very short memories.

The guy hasn't played a good game in over 2 years,

 

[Getsme]

Even if he had been as bad as some of the exaggerated shite spewed in this thread would have you believe in the few games he's played this season which he hasn't been. He hasn't been good by any means but hes not been completely useless either.

It still wouldn't explain the venom and hatred some seem to hold for him, its odd really. Product of our academy, good servant of the club and contributor to many of the clubs success's in recent times. What am i missing? Why do some seem to actually despise the guy?

When you read randomly plucked guff like this little gem below, it makes you wonder if some people actually watch our games with any great interest or maybe they just have very short memories.

I stopped reading the post after that line you quoted.
Some people only see what they want to see, they will look out for the smallest error and jump all over it to justify their beliefs.

 

[LeChuck]

Good post. Evans is a quality CB. My only criticism is that he's not as strong or aggressive in the tackle against a big/brutish type of CF.

He has struggled to adapt to LvGs new philosophy but once he cuts out his injury issues and has a run of games, he'll be back to his best.

Imagine having Skrtel and Sakho-things could be horrendously worse.

 

[Fergies Formula]

Even if he had been as bad as some of the exaggerated shite spewed in this thread would have you believe in the few games he's played this season which he hasn't been. He hasn't been good by any means but hes not been completely useless either.

It still wouldn't explain the venom and hatred some seem to hold for him, its odd really. Product of our academy, good servant of the club and contributor to many of the clubs success's in recent times. What am i missing? Why do some seem to actually despise the guy?

When you read randomly plucked guff like this little gem below, it makes you wonder if some people actually watch our games with any great interest or maybe they just have very short memories.

It depends on your definition of 'good' though, throughout Moyes tenure he may have played a handful of games that were acceptable for a squad player but non that made you believe he was that player that could be our next great player. And now under Van Gaal he has been awful.

The term 'good' was loose and should have used something along the lines of excelled, which he hasn't done.

 

[Fergies Formula]

I stopped reading the post after that line you quoted.
Some people only see what they want to see, they will look out for the smallest error and jump all over it to justify their beliefs.

If he continually makes small error after error, then I think its fair to say he is an average player, one who hasn't grown into Manchester united quality.

 

[Sarni]

Hull and Sunderland? Christ. This is a guy that has performed at a high level in stadiums all across Europe, yet you insinuate he should be playing for teams in a relegation battle?

Evans is more than good enough to play Champions League football and I suspect that many clubs across Europe would take great interest. His distribution has generally always been a strength which hasn't simply disappeared overnight and I suspect he would acclimatise rather well on the continent.

I do see Evans as the most dispensable of our three British centre half's, and It's fair to say I would look for a replacement come the upcoming transfer windows, but some of the stuff in this thread is bizarre. His injuries are his biggest problem, which I suspect has had a knock on effect on many areas of his game.

Evans has it in him to be a very good defender again, without doubt. Talk of Michael Dawson is downright laughable.

How many British defenders, or footballers in general, go to play abroad? Generally even the ones who could go to decent European clubs like Schalke or Lazio usually prefer to stay close to home and pick up better wages at clubs like the ones I mentioned. This is a trend that I haven't invented or made up, British footballers do tend to stay in Premier League when they can which is why I mentioned Hull and Sunderland rather than Lazio and Sevilla. I also don't think a top 6 side would present him an offer but a team like Newcastle definitely could.

He's injury prone, has not been very good at all this season and at 27 he is no longer a youngster who has years to develop. He is also not particularly strong for a defender. He is not a bad defender at all but I don't consider him a top one either, Jones and Smalling have more potential than him IMO.

 

[Ekeke]

I'm not sure you even understand what is meant by stats in this context. They are objective metrics that can be used to impartially assess performance. Ratings are subjective opinions, not impartial at all.

Hope this helps. Like I said, never work in science.

I gave you whats available of last season. If you wanted to have a crazy idea about Smalling not being clearly our best CB, you could have done it at the end of last season when all the individual stats that brought about his rating (and no its obviously not goals like with Skrtel) then. But instead you're having your little meltdown about him not being our best CB now, when those individual stats aren't available and are instead using his stats as a rightback for some reason.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I gave you whats available of last season. If you wanted to have a crazy idea about Smalling not being clearly our best CB, you could have done it at the end of last season when all the individual stats that brought about his rating (and no its obviously not goals like with Skrtel) then. But instead you're having your little meltdown about him not being our best CB now, when those individual stats aren't available and are instead using his stats as a rightback for some reason.

 

[Barca84]

Some people only see what they want to see

Loving your levels of self awareness here.

However I agree that he has until the end of the season to save his career, but that can be said of Jones, Smalling and Rafael.

Regarding Jones, Smalling & Rafael I think you're spot on. There's a case to be made for all of them to be fecked off if they don't improve. Odd though, and quite contradictory, to defend Evans so vehemently throughout this thread whilst above recognising that his career is on the line.

Never good enough for us and wouldn't get into the defence of the two teams above us either.

 

[Getsme]

Loving your levels of self awareness here.



Regarding Jones, Smalling & Rafael I think you're spot on. There's a case to be made for all of them to be fecked off if they don't improve. Odd though, and quite contradictory, to defend Evans so vehemently throughout this thread whilst above recognising that his career is on the line.

Never good enough for us and wouldn't get into the defence of the two teams above us either.

I’m defending Evans simply because he has come into unfair criticism and the fact that some are rewriting history in an attempt to justify their posts, it bizarre to say the least, further its far from contradictory to suggest his future is on the line and defend him at the same time, I’ve no idea how you’ve came to that conclusion. Maybe it’s because I’m not looking at the situation with a blinkered view, or I have a memory that goes beyond this season. When you don’t have an agenda you tend to see things more rationally and take a common sense approach to things.

His biggest issue isn’t his talent, contrary to belief he has had some very good games for the Club and has not only played at the highest level but has held his own and on occasion has been the standout defensive player. It’s his injuries that are holding him back and this has put his future at the Club in doubt, this belief that he has never been good enough for us, is built on the imagination of some posters, he has constantly been good enough for us in the last few years, we have won titles with him in the team FFS.

 

[legball]

He's a bag of nerves [especially when he has to lead from the back], weak physically and has that lapse of concentration in him EVERY game. I use to hear he is/was good on the ball, now we used 3-5-2 that actually requires him to show it, he's been worse. The only reason he's getting it easy is because he came through the club ranks. I mean, if everyone of our defenders could actually be fit, Smalling would be ahead of him, Jones too. He's not good enough for our first team.

 

[Barca84]

I’m defending Evans simply because he has come into unfair criticism and the fact that some are rewriting history in an attempt to justify their posts, it bizarre to say the least, further its far from contradictory to suggest his future is on the line and defend him at the same time, I’ve no idea how you’ve came to that conclusion. Maybe it’s because I’m not looking at the situation with a blinkered view, or I have a memory that goes beyond this season. When you don’t have an agenda you tend to see things more rationally and take a common sense approach to things.

His biggest issue isn’t his talent, contrary to belief he has had some very good games for the Club and has not only played at the highest level but has held his own and on occasion has been the standout defensive player. It’s his injuries that are holding him back and this has put his future at the Club in doubt, this belief that he has never been good enough for us, is built on the imagination of some posters, he has constantly been good enough for us in the last few years, we have won titles with him in the team FFS.

He's had some good games for us yes. Just not enough to be good enough for us. Thats no agenda its a reality that some of us have always seen him as a liability

Won't be here next year and you can perm him with possibly one or two others from Jones, Smalling & Rafael to be packing their bags too.

 

[Someone]

I know it's unfair to assume he's suddenly a poor defender, we all know he's capable of performing at a much higher level, we've seen him do it.

But if you're lucky enough to survive the summer storm in which we've lost players like welbeck, kagawa and nani(on loan) among others without being given a proper chance to impress, you had to know that this year is a make or break for everyone. The past won't make any difference unless you're still a young player. Anyone over 25 won't survive a poor first season with van gaal. Some of our worst players last season have managed to make amends and prove their worth for the manager, i fully expect young, valencia and felliani to be here next season, smalling is making a big case for himself, jones's age will buy him sometime, evans so far looks fecked, same for fletcher, and even new players like falcao and mata still have a lot to prove to survive next summer.

 

[Gannicus]

Let's think about Jonny in a different way:

If he were with another club over the last three seasons, performing for that club as he has for United during that time, would anyone here for one second seriously call out for Louis to buy him?

I didn't think so.

 

[Cassidy]

Let's think about Jonny in a different way:

If he were with another club over the last three seasons, performing for that club as he has for United during that time, would anyone here for one second seriously call out for Louis to buy him?

I didn't think so.

Maybe at the end of the 12/13 season yeah, we'll probably then yes, but after that no.

 

[Getsme]

He's had some good games for us yes. Just not enough to be good enough for us. Thats no agenda its a reality that some of us have always seen him as a liability

Won't be here next year and you can perm him with possibly one or two others from Jones, Smalling & Rafael to be packing their bags too.

And that can hamper your view on him, I’m not saying you personally have an agenda but when some fail to recognise any good he does in game but highlight any mistake no matter how small then surely there is an agenda, he has become this season’s scapegoat, of that I have no doubt. I’ve never understood fans who have to have someone to blame, especially given the difficulties we have had at the back this season the defence should be praised not hung out to dry. I’m not saying players should never be criticised, of course they should, but we should only do so when we look at the picture as a whole. As I said previously, I wouldn’t go as far as saying posters are hoping that Evans makes a mistake but there are certainly some who jump on his back for the silliest of things, the match day thread is evident of that, barely a mention of the superb tackle in the first half or the double block which looked like it stopped a certain goal, but plenty of mentions over a failed pass or any other error.

It would be easy to sit back, ignore this thread and let people rant away, especially when defending him has led to insults and jokes on my behalf, but feck it.

 

[MoneyMay]

Really? His longest run of games was five last season, and we did badly in them. He only performed well against Arsenal (1-0 win) in that stretch of games

Not true. His longest run of games last season was eight and, apart from the Stoke game, he did well in all of them. Should have done better against Lovren - and for Cardiff's first goal - but overall he had a very good game against Southampton. In this period, we didn't do too badly, and he was our best centre-back in the first half of the season. It's easy to forget that he was one of our better players in what was a terrible season for us.

None of that matters at the moment though because he seems to have lost his composure on and off the ball. He's making basic mistakes and is less flexible than any of our other centre-backs. At least in the Burnley and QPR games he was defending well, but since then he's looked terrible.

 

[Loublaze]

Loublaze has a tendency to make things up.

Jonny Evans has been shite all season. That statement is a fact

 

[Loublaze]

Not true. His longest run of games last season was eight and, apart from the Stoke game, he did well in all of them. Should have done better against Lovren - and for Cardiff's first goal - but overall he had a very good game against Southampton. In this period, we didn't do too badly, and he was our best centre-back in the first half of the season. It's easy to forget that he was one of our better players in what was a terrible season for us.

None of that matters at the moment though because he seems to have lost his composure on and off the ball. He's making basic mistakes and is less flexible than any of our other centre-backs. At least in the Burnley and QPR games he was defending well, but since then he's looked terrible.

It was actually 6, my mistake. He hasn't played more than 7 straight in 2 years

 

[Getsme]

Jonny Evans has been shite all season. That statement is a fact

It's your opinion, not a fact.

 

[Loublaze]

It's your opinion, not a fact.

Indeed, one that is shared by many. You can't say he's making a strong case to be part of our starting 11. Evans has easily been outperformed by our other CBs including the rookies.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

Evans has always been a confidence player, the best form we've seen from him has come in periods he's been consistently fit and selected. When he played backup to Vidic and Ferdinands, his cameos tended to be disappointing. I've no doubt in my mind he can perform better, once he remains fit.

 

[Getsme]

Indeed, one that is shared by many. You can't say he's making a strong case to be part of our starting 11. Evans has easily been outperformed by our other CBs including the rookies.

Never mentioned anything about him being in our starting 11, just stating that your so called fact is simply an opinion.

 

[Loublaze]

Never mentioned anything about him being in our starting 11, just stating that your so called fact is simply an opinion.

You clearly rate him above our other CBs. Where do you honestly see him in the pecking order?

 

[Getsme]

Evans has always been a confidence player, the best form we've seen from him has come in periods he's been consistently fit and selected. When he played backup to Vidic and Ferdinands, his cameos tended to be disappointing. I've no doubt in my mind he can perform better, once he remains fit.

And sadly, therein lies the problem.

 

[Getsme]

You clearly rate him above our other CBs. Where do you honestly see him in the pecking order?

At the moment, third, when he regains his confidence, first.
Edit: Also depends what formation we play.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

And sadly, therein lies the problem.

Same issue with all our defender then, so a bit unfair to target Evans more so that the others. Especially when a certain Brazilian full-back is by far the worst.

 

[Getsme]

Same issue with all our defender then, so a bit unfair to target Evans more so that the others. Especially when a certain Brazilian full-back is by far the worst.

Evans seems to be this years preferred target for some reason, no idea why though.

 

[Sandikan]

He's got to show improvement to stay here past the summer, I don't think that's In doubt.

Van Gaal will be ruthless, and it's hard not to see at least one quality centre back coming in, so if Evans doesn't lift himself above the younger, and physically more dominant Smalling and Jones, and manager's own Rojo, he has to be out.
Especially with a host of young defenders being blooded this year.

 

[Loublaze]

Evans seems to be this years preferred target for some reason, no idea why though.

He's playing terribly when he's supposed to be our 'leader' and most experienced CB, this is why he's the subject of criticism. Smalling has also recieved his fair amount of stick but he's responded with strong performances. Maybe Evans can do the same, but so far he's been a huge disappointment. I have more confidence seeing McNair or Blackett in the side than Evans

 

[Getsme]

He's playing terribly when he's supposed to be our 'leader' and most experienced CB, this is why he's the subject of criticism. Smalling has also recieved his fair amount of stick but he's responded with strong performances. Maybe Evans can do the same, but so far he's been a huge disappointment. I have more confidence seeing McNair or Blackett in the side than Evans

Do you honestly believe the level of criticism is justified? After 5 games, of which he has been nowhere near as bad as is being made out on here, not to mention coming back from a long lay off and playing an unfamiliar formation. He has been thrown on the scrap heap and history has been rewritten about his performances, it's laughable. From what I can see no one on here has said he has played consistently well this season, it's just some of us have a memory that goes beyond 5 games.
I'll ask you this, did you praise Evans double block against Villa that possibly got us a point, or his superb tackle in the first half when Villa broke away on a counter attack?
Further all this talk about him being a leader and the most experienced defender doesn't mean that he can't have a dip in performances?

 

[Bojan11]

I don't know why people are bringing his performances in the champions league into it last season. Considering our best defensive display was at Bayern at home without him.

 

[Getsme]

I don't know why people are bringing his performances in the champions league into it last season. Considering our best defensive display was at Bayern at home without him.

I'm going out on a limb here, but maybe it's because he played well in the Champions League, crazy I know.

 

[Bojan11]

Same issue with all our defender then, so a bit unfair to target Evans more so that the others. Especially when a certain Brazilian full-back is by far the worst.

Because he is the oldest and you'd think he'd be over these problems. Vidic and Rio at his age were helping us win the champions league and premier league. Evans can't stay fit still.

 

[Bojan11]

I'm going out on a limb here, but maybe it's because he played well in the Champions League, crazy I know.

What game did he stand out in?

 

[Ekeke]

I'm going out on a limb here, but maybe it's because he played well in the Champions League, crazy I know.

For 3 games...