Exactly.
Jonny Evans | 2011/12 Performances
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Exactly.
This has to be one of the knee-jerkiest threads ever.
For me, the faults started when our defence, as a collective unit, decided that they would defend so deep whilst being 4-2 up. In a game where you are losing the majority of areial balls, to defend deep is asking for trouble... and both the goals that came were a by-product of that.
So yeah, forget blaiming individuals from our defence... we were let down by the whole collective defensive unit.
So yeah, forget blaiming individuals from our defence... we were let down by the whole collective defensive unit.
Rafael and Evra were much worse than him yesterday. People are overreacting when it comes to Evans as always.
Evans is getting the stick for his performance yesterday? why?
Because he's the biggest scapegoat on the team now that Carrick is playing well and Berbatov doesn't get games. It's ridiculous.
Whilst I don't agree with some of the overzealous criticism's ... he was poor yesterday, but then he was no poorer then Rafael, Evra or Rio.
They were all as bad as each other and should be in for equal treatment when it comes to dishing out stick (If that's what people want to do).
Because he was poor yesterday, as was the entire defensive unit and his feck up on the third goal was a massive moment in the game. Ferdinand clearly had Fellaini and Evans should never have come over to try and win that ball.
Do you think he played well Sunny? We conceeded 4 at home, we defended terribly.
its like anytime United drop points, posters feel the need to pile into the Evans thread (and before that, the Carrick thread, the Fletcher thread, the O'Shea thread, the Neville thread)
its easier to scapegoat one usual suspect rather than looking at the game objectively
its easier to scapegoat one usual suspect rather than looking at the game objectively
Or it's because he played poorly?
Check the Rafael thread and the Evra thread, they are also getting dogs abuse so stop being a drama queen gb. Our defence had a shocker and those players are being criticised for it, simples really.
Nani is also bizarrly getting slagged off for his defending too.
Not as big as Rafael's inexplicable decision to let Pienaar run off him for the fourth goal. A decision which I've yet to see him criticise him for (in fact, you've made a few posts attempting to defend him iirc).
Regarding Evans challenging for that header, you have to wonder if he heard the call from Rio (or if Rio called for the ball at all) In the grand scheme of things, it's not an clear-cut defensive howler. A mistake, probably, but nowhere near as bad as some of the slack defending which led to other goals. Rafael's failure at the basics of tracking his man being a case in point. That's the type of slack defending that would get a pub footballer bawled out by his manager. If we insists on pointing fingers that's a far more pivotal and inexcusable bit of defending than Evans' role in their third goal.
Looking at the goals, Evans would be the defender who should have less on his conscience, in my opinion.
or are you kidding me with the part in bold? The only reason I attempted to defend him was because of the harsh criticism he was coming in for
And I never said he wasn't to blame, he should've stayed with his runner, but... I did defend the fact that Pienaar was running directly in the area in which Paul Scholes was occupying and this is possibly the reason Rafael stopped tracking.
I agree with the rest of your post by the way Pogue, I just completely disagreed with gb in that "Evans is the scapegoat", we conceded 4 bloody goals at home, our entire defence is being criticized (and Nani too), that isn't so strange.
Surely that's Rio?
Neither Evans or Rio can do anything about the 1st. Evans could possibly be better positioned on the 2nd (closer to Fellaini), Evans is at fault on the 3rd, and Evans shouldn't let his man turn and pick out a pass so easily in the box on the 4th.
So why should Rio have more on his conscience? Personally I thought they had a shocker as a unit. I wouldn't lay the blame for any one goal on one player aside from possibly the 3rd.
or are you kidding me with the part in bold? The only reason I attempted to defend him was because of the harsh criticism he was coming in for
And I never said he wasn't to blame, he should've stayed with his runner, but... I did defend the fact that Pienaar was running directly in the area in which Paul Scholes was occupying and this is possibly the reason Rafael stopped tracking.
I agree with the rest of your post by the way Pogue, I just completely disagreed with gb in that "Evans is the scapegoat", we conceded 4 bloody goals at home, our entire defence is being criticized (and Nani too), that isn't so strange.
Ok, fair enough.
The defence deserves to be criticised and Evans should share the blame. His part in what happened was relatively minor though.
The idea that this performance is somehow evidence he was never that good - after an outstanding season doing the impossible task of replacing Nemanja Vidic - is getting right on my tits.
Fellaini scored that goal from almost the exact same blade of grass he landed on when he headed the ball for their third. A header that Evans should apparently have not been competing for. He can't win.
Eh? Different situations obviously.
I didn't blame him by the way, I just thought he possibly could've reacted a little quicker to try and block the shot. I think defenders rightfully defend the 6 yard back in that situation but obviously as the ball is coming in from the left the defence has moved over and Evans IS closet to Fellaini. As I said though, the defenders were probably happy with their positioning there, sometimes a goal is just a good goal.
Fellaini presented the same type of problem as a Carroll or Crouch would have done.You sometimes have to accept that you won't win an aerial battle with them so the service has to be cut off.
City will present a vastly different type of threat unless Mancini plays Balotelli
I wouldn't even get into that retarded argument Pogue, posters who come out with that sort of nonsense (and similar was said about Rafael now being "not good enough") aren't worth the time of day.
Amen. I'd say that applies to three of Everton's goals. We can point the finger at individual defenders who might have done better but the standard of goals scored (from both teams) was top drawer. Really intelligent movement and accurate passing. No wonder defenders ended up looking silly.
Bottom line is, the three goals in the second half were all very much preventable, and our defenders will leave themselves open for critics.
Evans should've done better for both the second and the third goal, and also should have stuck closer to Fellaini for the last goal - he had a poor game, which happens, the timing wasn't great.
But Rafael had a poor game as well. I actually didn't think Evra was too bad.
Scholes and Carrick struggled with Everton overloading the midfield.
All in all, Evans had probably his worst game this season, but he's been outstanding for us since the turn of the year, and kept our defence together for large parts of the first half of the season as well. Poor games happens, too bad we lost points because of it. But that doesn't mean he's had a poor season, not by any stretch of the imagination.
Evans should've done better for both the second and the third goal, and also should have stuck closer to Fellaini for the last goal - he had a poor game, which happens, the timing wasn't great.
But Rafael had a poor game as well. I actually didn't think Evra was too bad.
Scholes and Carrick struggled with Everton overloading the midfield.
All in all, Evans had probably his worst game this season, but he's been outstanding for us since the turn of the year, and kept our defence together for large parts of the first half of the season as well. Poor games happens, too bad we lost points because of it. But that doesn't mean he's had a poor season, not by any stretch of the imagination.
Maybe, maybe not.
I think there is too much responsibility on Evans to win all the aerial battles. He seemed to be the one who had to challenge consistently with both Jelavic and Fellaini yesterday.
Rio gave the ball away originally for the 4th goal iirc, which really annoyed me at the time because I had a gut feeling Everton were going to score as a result of it and it was a ridiculously stupid pass. There was probably 30 seconds after that though before the goal was eventually scored, and should have been prevented numerous times along the way.
This was the strangest thing with out tactics yesterday I though. Everton were always going to win the aerial battle, yet we seemed to play into their hands and let them get the service too easily.
I hope Mancini does play Balotelli over Tevez, because we'll beat them. The movement of Tevez and Aguero will cause Evans & Ferdinand serious problems. I'd rather Balotelli play.
oi ok, I didn't remember that.
I could be wrong. Regardless, there was so much time between us losing the ball and them scoring that we could have at least defended better.
Aguero gave Rio the runaround the last time they faced each other.
He'd give anyone the runaround. Out cbs aren't the most mobile though, unfortunately. I think they'll score against us, but we are capable of doing the same.
I have a feeling that Tevez is going to be the difference maker. He has a point to prove more than most.
What? If anything, they showed that they never gave up. Being 2 goals down at Old Trafford....twice. Most teams would have rolled over.
check the history of the thread though, people look for any excuse to slag off particular players. Bizarrely its usually homegrown players that get the worst stick
fair enough, I wasn't really aiming that at everyone
Check out "All 3 United" for example - always pops up in threads about Fletcher and Evans to have a bash when they dont play well. Very rarely seen in other threads criticising other players
Yes I do because I don't rate either player and find it amazing how many do on here. If however they have a good game I will admit it.
I am not the sort of poster that will go on about how well such a player has done i.e oooh didn't nani take his goal well, as generally there is little to debate in this type of scenario and IMO not what forums are about.
Not hard to see why. He was supposed to be cutting down the crosses from Hibbert since Evra for some reason went into the box all the time. He didn't do a good enough job disrupting Hibbert's crosses and they scored from two of them.
I'll have to assume that's a joke?
Their first 2 goals no one closes down Hibbert well enough and he has the time to control, set himself and measure in two good crosses.
Wow, so you really weren't kidding. The first goal, Nani is the deeper out of him and Evra. You can argue he wasn't close enough to Hibbert on either occasion, but just how Evra's primary duty is defending, Nani's is attacking. Imagine if we had Ronaldo, he'd be nowhere near Hibbert. For the second goal, feck knows what Evra was doing, but again Nani was the deeper of the two. Why is Nani playing more advanced than Evra, except for those two goals, when all of a sudden, he's deeper than Evra?
You can't seriously be holding Nani more accountable for the goals than Evra?
You can't seriously be holding Nani more accountable for the goals than Evra?
Where was I holding Nani accountable? I simply said I can see why people weren't fond of his defensive work. I was blaming Evra really for having to have Nani cover for him. Evra was leaving him alone and going inside so that left Nani to mark Hibbert. Since he was the one doing the job and didn't do it well enough it's fair he gets some portion of the blame. Evra too should be questioned.
Read my post again. Seems I didn't make it clear enough. Sorry about that. We're agreeing partially anyway.
Read my post again. Seems I didn't make it clear enough. Sorry about that. We're agreeing partially anyway.
Nani should have done better to stop the cross in on both occasions. He does shoulder some of the blame for the goals IMO. It's part of his job to track the full back after all. That said, where the feck Evra was is anyone's guess. He was getting pulled all over the place by their right midfield player (Osman?) following him centrally on a number of occasions leaving loads of space for Hibbert to exploit.
Seemed like it was a definite tactic they'd (Everton) worked on and it worked every time.
For me this is like blaming Evra for not putting the fifth away. If it's a forward who misses the chance, they'll be rightly criticised for it. It's their job. Yes we expect full backs to contribute to attacks, but we can forgive ther mistakes more easily as we know this isn't their main job, and it's the same with Nani's defending. Because of his attributes going forward, and moreso his contributions in that game, it's hardy fair to then blame him for two goals. Yes you can argue he could've done better, but so could everyone else, they're not perfect.
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