Youth tournaments do not give us the full picture of how the young player will develop when he's older.
Jones has characteristics to be a great full back and a good midfielder.
Jonny Evans | 2011/12 Performances
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Youth tournaments do not give us the full picture of how the young player will develop when he's older.
Jones has characteristics to be a great full back and a good midfielder.
Err, what are those characteristics then that exclude him from CB?
True but....Well, why I mentioned that was because that was the first time we got to watch him outside Blackburn. Because for Blackburn his center back performances are the reason we bought him. I bet the United set up are surprised as to how versatile he really is.
The attributes he needs to be a great centre-half are clearly there, dominance in the air, physical presence, recovery speed, timing in the tackle, comfort on the ball. His weaknesses in there have been rashness and positional naievity, common enough in a young player and easily eradicated. He's a good full-back and looked very capable in the middle beside Carrick, but these are bonuses, nothing more. He'll end up a centre-half.
Spot on.
Added to that he's shown true leadership qualities at 19(very rare IMO) which mark him out as a exceptional talent. Obviously nowhere near fulfilled.
I hope we can find a fixed position outside of central defence for Jones, because it looks very likely that Smalling and Evans will be top class centrebacks for years to come. They already are actually.
He lacks that yard of pace to make him amongst the very best. I also think he is very much a confidence player and needs to get mistakes, or bad games out of his system quicker. You can immediately detect his body language during games going into a different mode.
On a serious note, I have not read any of the criticisms of Jones as a centre back in this thread but I'd hope posters would realise Jones is still only 19. His potential in any position is huge and I'd still have him down as potentially the most important youngster we have. I was pointing out his deficiences at cb early in the season when the central midfield was being overly hammered but his potential is obviously massive.
I was the only one who criticised him and I just said he's more mistake prone at the moment but has qualities that hide that, Evans on the other hand doesn't so he gets more criticism for less. I still think he's a phenomenal talent and I do reckon he'll be a top class centre back. He's got more talent he's just a lot more raw at the moment.
He's pretty quick and I wouldn't say lightening speed was an essential in a centre-half. I'd agree with the confidence thing but for a guy his age, doesn't seem lacking in that department.
I'd say positional sense, recovery and quick turn of pace are some of the most important attributes for any budding top defender.
Confidence wise it's probably the highest we've seen him at United. He is also getting regular games. It's no wonder we've been seeing him at his best.
Some of the best centre halfs in the game aren't particularly quick. Our own Nemanja Vidic for starters.
Absolutely. Look through the pantheon of our great centre-halves and you'll find plenty...Steve Bruce, Kevin Moran, Martin Buchan. Jonny Evans, rightly garnering praise for his recent form, can look like he's running backwards when a nippy forward gets face-on with him. But Jonny, or Vids, or any top quality centre-half, will minimise those situations through their positional play, interceptions, how tight they mark their man etc. That's all I meant about pace. Not all of them get to be blessed with the pace Rio had at his peak, but that doesn't have to be a terminal deficiency.
Paul McGrath was world class without any turn of pace or actual knees
Don't know, Dec. Even with the seemingly essential ingredient of knees, I remember him as pretty quick.
At the end of career I mean. He was pretty quick back in the day alright.
Evans reads the game very well. sign of all top CBs. But he is not as slow as some make him out to be either.
Could argue that whilst he was world class, its not particularly relevant as there seems to be far more pacey strikers around than when he was playing
I already responded to this post on the previous page, but forgot something else that I was going to say as well. I can see where you're coming from with the English mentality idea, but there's a major flaw to that. I know plenty of people who don't really rate Carrick, but are massive fans of other midfielders such as Alonso and Pirlo, who are similar midfielders that play in a similar way to him.
I think many of the people who gave Carrick criticism were just not big fans of him, which was understandable. He'd had good spells before, but I think that this has really been the season where he's improved his performance level and played up to a very high standard. Before this season, I personally think that a lot of the criticism he came in for was valid. It's probably the same with Evans as well, although there are differences between the two, with the notable one of course being that Evans is a lot younger than Carrick.
Yes.
He has however struggled with pacey strikers in a number of games. Nemanja's strength is his all round power, positioning and is phenomenal in the air.
Paul McGrath was turbo charged.
It's not the most important aspect for a defender, and they can get away with it if they have a lack of pace, but many defenders who have next to no pace at all can be ripped apart by the opposition because of it.
Pace may not be essential in a centre half but it is still an asset. Jones is quicker than Evans, and, I would guess, Smalling and Rio. The recovery tackle on Bale at Old Trafford showed his speed.
Moderate pace + good positioning > Rapid pace + poor positioning
As an aside, you don't think Carrick was pretty bloody good for us between 2006 and 2009? As I recall he had a dip after that and a few injuries.
He was good then, but he did have a couple of dodgy years inbetween where he came in for a lot of criticism, and quite rightfully so.
it depends on who you are paired with, CB's should complement each other
Couple of dodgy years at United? He'd have been shipped off!
Really it was only the first half of last season when he was a bit shit.
Evans has looked good lately, let's hope he can put a few more performances on the spin like that - we'll need them, particularly at Spuds away
Pace was never Evans' problem. He has had never had it, but that is not what let him down at times.
What let him down was physical challenges in the air or on the ground. He has turned that around, and has (again) starting winning most headers and challenges. I think that has to do with confidence. There has never been a problem with his size.
I've been one of his critics, but the way he is playing atm there is not a lot he can be critizised for.
What let him down was physical challenges in the air or on the ground. He has turned that around, and has (again) starting winning most headers and challenges. I think that has to do with confidence. There has never been a problem with his size.
I've been one of his critics, but the way he is playing atm there is not a lot he can be critizised for.
I think with a lot of centre halves it is not their top speed that is the problem, it is the acceleration, the amount of time needed to get to top speed. They are some of the biggest lads on a football pitch, and often need twice as long as shorter players to get to top speed.
I don't see Evans as slow, but i think he could work on his off the mark acceleration. At a club like Utd whose defenders are often high up the pitch, recovery pace can be the difference between being a very good defender, or a great one.
Like it or not, lack of pace is a weakness that can be exploited as we saw when Torres targeted Vidic, rather than Rio a few years ago. That was the one advantage Torres had over Vidic and he used it to good effect. It is not absolutely imperative for a CB to have good pace, but it certainly helps.
Rio is a good example, only 2 or 3 years ago when he had that fantastic recovery pace, he was the best CB on the planet. Now he has lost that turn of pace, he looks much more vulnerable.
I don't see Evans as slow, but i think he could work on his off the mark acceleration. At a club like Utd whose defenders are often high up the pitch, recovery pace can be the difference between being a very good defender, or a great one.
Like it or not, lack of pace is a weakness that can be exploited as we saw when Torres targeted Vidic, rather than Rio a few years ago. That was the one advantage Torres had over Vidic and he used it to good effect. It is not absolutely imperative for a CB to have good pace, but it certainly helps.
Rio is a good example, only 2 or 3 years ago when he had that fantastic recovery pace, he was the best CB on the planet. Now he has lost that turn of pace, he looks much more vulnerable.
tidy post
Evans has been very good recently.
Has stepped in well and taken advantage of the injuries. Has been better than Rio.
Just needs to cut down his "customary" brutal mistakes which he has done tbf and he will be top class.
Has stepped in well and taken advantage of the injuries. Has been better than Rio.
Just needs to cut down his "customary" brutal mistakes which he has done tbf and he will be top class.
I must admit, it's taken me until now to fully appreciate the form that Jonny Evans is in. After his fantastic start to his United career, it was quite a shock to see the absolute collapse that followed at times, and I wasn't sure we were looking at a player who would be mentally or physically strong enough to play for United. That's from someone who was singing his praises to anyone who would listen for a year or so during his Sunderland loan, quite often to the sound of ridicule.
Basically, well played Jonny Evans. On reflection, he's been composed, solid and fantastic at bringing the ball out. If he keeps this up, it's going to be him and Smalling at centre back for years to come, and Jones is going to have some work to do to nail down a spot at centre back (though I should imagine Jones will nail cement a place somewhere in the team - the guy's a fecking force, if we're being honest...).
Basically, well played Jonny Evans. On reflection, he's been composed, solid and fantastic at bringing the ball out. If he keeps this up, it's going to be him and Smalling at centre back for years to come, and Jones is going to have some work to do to nail down a spot at centre back (though I should imagine Jones will nail cement a place somewhere in the team - the guy's a fecking force, if we're being honest...).
His recent "mistakes" have largely been blown out of proportion (similar to de Gea). His general play has been very high and his mistakes are often singled out. I've been confident when he's been in the back line.
I still maintain that his distribution is very important for our attacking play. Makes us a much more free-flowing unit.
His achilles heel is his decision making at times. He can get caught wrong side, he can challenge for balls he has no chance of winning, and he can get dragged out of position. As he gets older, he will make fewer mistakes like these because a lot of it comes down to a lack of maturity.
Gonna put it out there that he's now established as third choice centre back ahead of Smalling? Or is may be because he compliments Rio better, but on form I think he deserves it
Evans has been fecking immense thus far in the game.
Am I the only one who feels that he has some captain material about him? He doesnt seem afraid to speak his mind on the pitch or to take the initative if movement is poor and not much is happening. Hes by far the best with the ball in his feet and the best passer out of himself, Smalling and Jones, and if he gets the physical part of his game together on a consistent basis (like he has today against Norwich's physical and aerial approach) he will be great.
Doesnt seem to have long slumps of poor form after making mistakes either, which is nice for a young defender who is bound to make some from time to time.
Am I the only one who feels that he has some captain material about him? He doesnt seem afraid to speak his mind on the pitch or to take the initative if movement is poor and not much is happening. Hes by far the best with the ball in his feet and the best passer out of himself, Smalling and Jones, and if he gets the physical part of his game together on a consistent basis (like he has today against Norwich's physical and aerial approach) he will be great.
Doesnt seem to have long slumps of poor form after making mistakes either, which is nice for a young defender who is bound to make some from time to time.
Smalling, for me, would still be ahead of Evans in the pecking order. Obviously, Smalling can also slot in at right back though, so Evans will still start most games.
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