Hmmm....I see it's tied...close to closing time and Ish hasn't voted yet! 
*bribes welcome*
*bribes welcome*
Joga Bonita VS MDFC - All time 3 yr peak - Auction draft
- Thread starter Annahnomoss
- Start date
He is playing as a RCB-RB and will tailor his movements defensively to deal with Boniek. Just like Boniek would be moving centrally and out wide in his current position. It is an even battle and Bossis is the perfect player to deal with him.
I never said that. Just that with Cruyff and Keane in their zones, they will have less freedom to do that.
Conti tore him apart, not just in any match - but in the World Cup Final! Briegel conceded a penalty against Conti, with Conti playing a part in the second goal and assisting the third goal with Briegel caught up field. It's all in the OP in gifs.
I don't see how Briegel can handle Conti alone, without the support of Ardiles here. Plain and simple, anything other than that and you are letting Conti run havoc.
Hmmm....I see it's tied...close to closing time and Ish hasn't voted yet!
*bribes welcome*
Never said Briegel can handle Conti alone. I said Conti won't have the edge over Briegel PLUS Ardiles. Especially when you moved Conti to RM
Now, you're way over rating Bossis as well. Boniek vs Bossis won't end well for the Frenchman at all. He will need Conti's support. Even more so if He's playing Rcb-RB like you say.
Now, you're way over rating Bossis as well. Boniek vs Bossis won't end well for the Frenchman at all. He will need Conti's support. Even more so if He's playing Rcb-RB like you say.
That was exactly the role that Conti played in the WC Final and he tormented Briegel on the ball and shut him down, off it. With Ardiles required to predominantly help him, I see much of the advantages of your change being negated.
No one's overrating Bossis, like I said it will be an even battle and he is perfectly suited to deal with him. He won't need Conti's support like Bruegel needing Ardiles to babysit him for example.
I might sound like I'm exaggerating here but seriously though, just watch the Italy vs Germany 1982 final after this match and you'd get exactly what I'm talking about in regards to Conti. A few GIFs don't do him justice.
You are overegging this point. Briegel wasn't the man in charge for that flank, it was Bernd Forster. Briegel was playing in midfield, on the same side as Conti and surely tasked with supporting Forster. I don't think he played particularly badly, even the free kick Germany scored from was a foul on him iirc. It's more a case that Conti had a great game, somewhat aided by how the game shaped up and how it meant Germany increasingly being forced to pour forward. That could only ever mean one thing: Conti time.
I love dogs!
TACTICAL CHANGE:
Osvaldo Ardiles comes in place of Tom Finney. Formation gets changed, as a result. Stieleke goes into his preferred DM/Sweeper position, Neeskens goes into his preferred RCM position and Ardiles plays beside him. As a result, Boniek gets more freedom to play his preferred free forward role better.
The biggest beneficiary though, is possibly Maradona. He has more freedom to express himself, with the addition of the extremely hardworking Ardiles. Both Ardiles and Neeskens are adept at getting forward as well, which means Maradona has a wealth of options all around him. Restricting his influence was already a huge task, and it just got bigger.
Apart from his graft and hardwork, Ardiles brings excellent dribbling on-the-ball ability as well. Him and Neeskens are going to hound the opponents to the final whistle.
This move also further frees up Carlos Alberto, who can now maraud fearlessly, with Stielike and Neeskens covering him sufficiently.
Boniek can still switch flanks as he wishes, but while he stays on the left, its IMO still the easiest route to goal: Maradona inviting pressure on himself, and then releasing Boniek on the other side. Reminiscent of the fantastic Platini-Boniek partnership. When Boniek does go over to the right side, Ardiles is extremely comfortable in dribbling the ball out towards the left side/wing.
Now that you made the change I remembered telling you having another midfielder could be useful and discussing Ardiles. I had completely forgotten about that!This makes it a more even battle, your midfield was losing this IMO.
Oh I see @MDFC Manager needed to have a winning scoreline... You never, ever, ever do that. Could have got me to vote Joga just like with @Annahnomoss some time back.
Yes that's one point. The other point is whether there was evidence that is like a Evra-lennon mismatch which occurred time and again.
Penos!
Sorry, I don't understand?
@MDFC Manager has lost his marbles
Penalty
This game certainly deserves this.
This game certainly deserves this.
fecking hell I don't know what's happening@MDFC Manager has lost his marbles
on my shitty phonefecking hell I don't know what's happening on my shitty phone
on my shitty phoneIf that's the case then Sindelar vs Monti, Rummenigge vs Bergomi etc should never be used. Conti had the beating of Briegel in a WC Final and I don't see why it isn't a significant point in this match up.
I just watched the match recently and Briegel was struggling to deal with Conti. Don't quite recall Forster being the LB, was sure it was Briegel. Unless Forster was playing as a tucked in LCB? Conti and Bruegel constantly squared up and Conti had the beating of him in both phases.
Agreed on Germany pushing forward which meant there was more space for Conti though - esp for the 3rd goal where Briegel lost the ball high up the pitch with Conti seizing advantage to assist for the final goal.
Good game Joga.
You had drafted an brilliant team.
The team that we doesn't want to face in the first round,Unfortunately it has to be.
And anyone going out here has to be really unlucky.
I always thought our defensive set-up was some sort of versatile 343ish thing in 1982, but throughout the tournament always a bit of a clusterfeck with too many changes between games. Briegel and Kaltz were wingbacks with the Förster brothers left and right of Stielike. The big problem in the final against Italy's set-up was, that Conti could constantly exploit the space between Briegel and Karl-Heinz Förster, which made both individually look worse than they actually were. (After Hrubesch came in for Dremmler with half an hour to go, it became more of a back four though. We were chasing the game at that point after all and had to attack). Clearly Conti was fantastic and both, Briegel and Förster, had underwhelming games, but then, it's a bit unfair to judge them solely on one of their weak games when they had so many great games against top opponents. (Not that it's wrong to use it here in the game to win some votes of course
).I don't say that you shouldn't bring up that point mate. What I'm saying is that when you bring up that point in a draft, you shouldn't overstate its significance. I mean these drafts are played under ideal conditions, no? Peak level form, no injuries, etc right? In such a case, a single instance like you showed here shouldn't IMO be as crucial a factor as you're making it out to be. Which is Conti lording it over Briegel. I'm on my phone and I'll check up how other instances of Briegel vs Conti ended up during Sampdoria vs Roma
I'll echo what @Mani said. This was as good a first round battle as it can get
Good luck in the penaltiesForster was the leftmost defender, Briegel wasn't played as a defender but higher up the pitch, more a LDM than WB IMO, and the positioning probably had much to do with trying (and failing, indeed) to stop Conti in that Grande Inter Jair-style role.
It's a role he would get better at later in his career, but not what I would have down as his peak role, which is why I think it's spectacularly unfair to assess Briegel the leftback based on a game where he played anything but leftback.
I always thought our defensive set-up was some sort of versatile 343ish thing in 1982, but throughout the tournament always a bit of a clusterfeck with too many changes between games. Briegel and Kaltz were wingbacks with the Förster brothers left and right of Stielike. The big problem in the final against Italy's set-up was, that Conti could constantly exploit the space between Briegel and Karl-Heinz Förster, which made both individually look worse than they actually were. (After Hrubesch came in for Dremmler with half an hour to go, it became more of a back four though. We were chasing the game at that point after all and had to attack). Clearly Conti was fantastic and both, Briegel and Förster, had underwhelming games, but then, it's a bit unfair to judge them solely on one of their weak games when they had so many great games against top opponents. (Not that it's wrong to use it here in the game to win some votes of course
That's more or less how I remember it as well. Bernd was on the right wasn't he and Karl-Heinz on the left? I do remember poor Dremmler coming under some nasty challenges. Stielike was just phenomenal in that game. Probably the only one who gave a feck after the game seemed to be slipping away.
On the bolded point - of course not. I do rate Briegel a lot but Conti did have the better of him despite the circumstances. It wasn't like Conti had a RB to support him either - Gentile was mostly playing defensively. Conti was the prime ball carrying bridge from defense to attack and he also had to track Briegel's forays forward as well. He was just immense on that day and I really don't think I overdid his influence here and he actually does tend to be underrated in general.
Hey man, it's not 15:41 here yet, what kind of time zone sorcery is this?
edit: feck, my watch be a few mins slow
edit: feck, my watch be a few mins slow
Maybe, but not that much. I don't think his World Cup final form is a fair representation of a consistent 3 year peak in his career. It was more a standout game by a great player, nothing more, nothing less.
No, you've got that absolutely spot on. My issue wasn't that much bigging up Conti but dissing Briegel. It was already a hard enough job without Italy piling up the goals and forcing even more adventurous play. Had Germany scored first I'm sure he would have been more conservative and Conti would have had a much harder time.
Finally something interesting in a game. This really is a tough choice, esp after the change by MDFC. If he had started with this, I might have not voted at all...but had to give the early bird advantage to Joga.
Of course it isn't but it is most pertinent bit here as he is directly up against Briegel.
So who is doing penalties?
Send in the penalties to me. MDFC you choose left/right/center for 5 shots and 5 saves. To make it simpler, the POV will be from the penalty taker.
But Briegel spent most of the game playing leftback in a back four, a very different role to the one he had in that final. After the changes you could have argued it was more akin to it, but with a game that wasn't running away from MDFC it's a different scenario. I'd also rate Vierchowod as a better covering centreback than Forster.
I never really pressed the Conti vs Briegel in the initial stages, if I'm not wrong and just stated it as an advantage - not as a huge one. It was only after his change with Briegel becoming a LWB and Boniek becoming more of an inside left, that I started to press on it more as a significant advantage as it was almost an exact replica of the Conti (RM) vs Briegel (LWB) battle in the 82 final.
I'm not sure what the scoreline was when he made the change but it was 6-3 when i logged off and he was behind.
Send the penos to Annah, lets see how this ends!
Sent mate
Jogo Bonito starts the penalties. He has selected Cruyff as his first man to try and get the best of Gordon Banks in goal. He runs up,
and pulls a panenka to the middle of the goal and Banks dives to the right and can't make it back in time. 1-0 Joga Bonito.
Gordon Banks is furious at the mannerisms from Cruyff and takes the ball out of his own net and walks up to the penalty spot to get his revenge. MDFC tries to stop him but it is impossible and he runs full speed towards the ball and hits it with all his force to the right of the goal.
Dasaev dives the other way and is nowhere near the ball. 1-1
Law is next to shoot, will he score with the support of the United supporters? He taps it calmly in the middle
and it is a goal. Banks dives left and is yet again nowhere near the ball. 2-1 Joga