Joao Neves | signed for PSG

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Kingslayer18 said:
I think Neves is more an 8, whereas Vermeeren is more a 6. Vermeeren could play as an 8 as well though. I agree, it makes no sense paying 100m for potential unless its Mbappe like level. There are a number of young midfielders around that could fulfill our requirements and be purchased at a reasonable level. I have heard of Moscardo before, Chelsea made a bid for him which seemed to have been rejected at the time. I wonder how Moscardo compares to Federico Redondo, who seems to be gaining much attention. Could Moscardo play alongside another 6 like Amadou Onana or is he more a single pivot?

Agreed, we lack speed and athleticism in the central areas as well as the technical ability to progress the ball. Whereas most top teams are looking at getting press resistant midfielders, we don't have anyone in the squad with that profile for us, aside from Mainoo and Hannibal. The CBs and midfielders you mentioned would go a long way to making us into a modern team. Having Todibo and Diomande in our defensive line, with a midfield of Onana and other, we would have the ability to get up the field easily and benefit from Andre Onana's passing ability in goal.
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Redondo stylistically looks similar to a Busquets type #6 and Moscardo shares similarities to a Roy Keane/Paul Ince where his ground coverage, duel winning ability, ball carrying along with his technical qualities in possession are very good for his age. It's difficult to say if Moscardo will end up as a single pivot or someone utilised in a more box to box role due to him recently turning 18. But he does look a interesting prospect with a well rounded game and someone who I think could develop into a very good midfielder for a top team. I think both types of midfielders can exist in a midfield composition with the only question mark being that can they adapt to the EPL. I think Moscardo is made for the EPL, and Redondo as long as he's got players around him at CB and in midfield who can eat up ground quickly, then he will have the platform to potentially thrive.

More and more coaches are adopting to play in a compact high block with the aim of defending from the front, so it's important the players furthest back in the block have physical and athletic capabilities to compact space and hence control/contain the opponent's fast transitions. Being aerially dominant in such a setup is a bonus but it's far more important to have players who are strong at compacting space when the space opens up in transition.

Moscardo is still very young and falls into the developmental type talent but I'd say stylistically he's very rounded potentially and would work well with Amadou Onana. I know Onana has played as a single #6 for Belgium in some games but imo he's best utilised as the #8 where he can step into a double pivot in the build up phase but also drive forward with the ball in a box to box #8 role. He's surprisingly press resistant for such a big unit and can evade/resist the opponent's press very well along with helping the team progress the ball with his surging runs from midfield.

There's other options apart from Amadou Onana as well who I believe we can also target. And if we target players who have the physical, athletic and technical qualities in possession, then I'm confident we'll be a very competitive team before long. If you know how you want to play in possession along with understanding what is required of your players out of possession when they're playing 40 yards higher up the pitch in a compact high block, then it's not difficult to sign the correct profile of players. Data analytics can only help you if you first know what you're looking for, and if you don't know what you're looking for then data analytics isn't going to be of great help imo.
 
Messier1994 said:
I am convinced of that size — at specific positions — is very overrated in today’s game. This is not to say that size on the pitch is overrated, you need it to defend set pieces. And it’s not entirely easy to fit it in if you don’t have it at CB/perhaps CDM/Striker.

But a team that play a state of the art brand of football — which definitely is necessary to compete in the long run — is just not going to have many clear 1 on 1 heading duels. And of the few situations they come — like 90% will from goalkicks etc and you can easily put a No 8 instead of a No 6 in those headduels.
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I doubt Rodri would be as good as he is if he were 1.74m.

Neves would play as no8 in the PL.
 
Adnan said:
Redondo stylistically looks similar to a Busquets type #6 and Moscardo shares similarities to a Roy Keane/Paul Ince where his ground coverage, duel winning ability, ball carrying along with his technical qualities in possession are very good for his age. It's difficult to say if Moscardo will end up as a single pivot or someone utilised in a more box to box role due to him recently turning 18. But he does look a interesting prospect with a well rounded game and someone who I think could develop into a very good midfielder for a top team. I think both types of midfielders can exist in a midfield composition with the only question mark being that can they adapt to the EPL. I think Moscardo is made for the EPL, and Redondo as long as he's got players around him at CB and in midfield who can eat up ground quickly, then he will have the platform to potentially thrive.

More and more coaches are adopting to play in a compact high block with the aim of defending from the front, so it's important the players furthest back in the block have physical and athletic capabilities to compact space and hence control/contain the opponent's fast transitions. Being aerially dominant in such a setup is a bonus but it's far more important to have players who are strong at compacting space when the space opens up in transition.

Moscardo is still very young and falls into the developmental type talent but I'd say stylistically he's very rounded potentially and would work well with Amadou Onana. I know Onana has played as a single #6 for Belgium in some games but imo he's best utilised as the #8 where he can step into a double pivot in the build up phase but also drive forward with the ball in a box to box #8 role. He's surprisingly press resistant for such a big unit and can evade/resist the opponent's press very well along with helping the team progress the ball with his surging runs from midfield.

There's other options apart from Amadou Onana as well who I believe we can also target. And if we target players who have the physical, athletic and technical qualities in possession, then I'm confident we'll be a very competitive team before long. If you know how you want to play in possession along with understanding what is required of your players out of possession when they're playing 40 yards higher up the pitch in a compact high block, then it's not difficult to sign the correct profile of players. Data analytics can only help you if you first know what you're looking for, and if you don't know what you're looking for then data analytics isn't going to be of great help imo.
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In terms of our squad building, with Dan Gore also having B2B capabilities, similar to Mainoo, I would be more reluctant to bring Moscardo in as opposed to a Vermeeren. Vermeeren could come in as a DLP and add great passing ability to the team. He would effectively replace what Erikksen brings to the team. Whilst I know Amadou Onana has great #8 abilities, I like him more for us as a 6. Similar to how Declan Rice can play as an 8, but is more valuable to a team as a 6, that's how I see Amadou Onana. The fact that he's used to the EPL, still young and way off fulfilling his potential means he's the one midfield transfer we should be targetting in the next summer window. In fact, ETH should have moved for him instead of Mount and waited for Mount on a free. That would've been better squad building to what actually happened. Which other options do you see apart from Amadou Onana for that role that can fulfill the technical, athletic and press resistant capabilities?
 
Kingslayer18 said:
In terms of our squad building, with Dan Gore also having B2B capabilities, similar to Mainoo, I would be more reluctant to bring Moscardo in as opposed to a Vermeeren. Vermeeren could come in as a DLP and add great passing ability to the team. He would effectively replace what Erikksen brings to the team. Whilst I know Amadou Onana has great #8 abilities, I like him more for us as a 6. Similar to how Declan Rice can play as an 8, but is more valuable to a team as a 6, that's how I see Amadou Onana. The fact that he's used to the EPL, still young and way off fulfilling his potential means he's the one midfield transfer we should be targetting in the next summer window. In fact, ETH should have moved for him instead of Mount and waited for Mount on a free. That would've been better squad building to what actually happened. Which other options do you see apart from Amadou Onana for that role that can fulfill the technical, athletic and press resistant capabilities?
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I think the plan was to move McTominay on and sign Amadou Onana with reports stating that we approached Everton near the end of the window and made a enquiry after both Fulham and West Ham were showing interest in McTominay. But McTominay didn't want to leave and stayed put. The Mount signing was for different reasons and the potential signing of Amadou Onana along with promoting Mainoo was for different reasons. When you're constructing a team to play in a compact high block then you need central players who can enhance the build up in a deeper role, along with having the ability to cover ground quickly. The central players in more advanced areas are required to press high, create and also have the running power to make a difference in the high pressing tactics.

We then attempted to sign Youssouff Fofana from Monaco on a loan but were rebuffed by Monaco according to The Athletic. The idea was right but when you go into a summer window and the priority is signing a GK and striker, then most of the funds are going to go on those positions. And signing Mount for the advanced midfield position was the correct move imo and developing Mainoo and signing Ambrabat on loan after missing out on both Onana and Fofana was about as good as it got for us. I expect to see us prioritze both a CB and a deeper lying midfielder in the summer a long with a forward, possibly.

I'd like to see us target Amadou Onana, Lucas Gourna-Douath or even Mats Wiefer from Feyenoord as a low risk, high reward type signing. And if we can then add a player like Vermeeren to the squad, it will make the midfield composition look more balanced.
 
Adnan said:
I think the plan was to move McTominay on and sign Amadou Onana with reports stating that we approached Everton near the end of the window and made a enquiry after both Fulham and West Ham were showing interest in McTominay. But McTominay didn't want to leave and stayed put. The Mount signing was for different reasons and the potential signing of Amadou Onana along with promoting Mainoo was for different reasons. When you're constructing a team to play in a compact high block then you need central players who can enhance the build up in a deeper role, along with having the ability to cover ground quickly. The central players in more advanced areas are required to press high, create and also have the running power to make a difference in the high pressing tactics.

We then attempted to sign Youssouff Fofana from Monaco on a loan but were rebuffed by Monaco according to The Athletic. The idea was right but when you go into a summer window and the priority is signing a GK and striker, then most of the funds are going to go on those positions. And signing Mount for the advanced midfield position was the correct move imo and developing Mainoo and signing Ambrabat on loan after missing out on both Onana and Fofana was about as good as it got for us. I expect to see us prioritze both a CB and a deeper lying midfielder in the summer a long with a forward, possibly.

I'd like to see us target Amadou Onana, Lucas Gourna-Douath or even Mats Wiefer from Feyenoord as a low risk, high reward type signing. And if we can then add a player like Vermeeren to the squad, it will make the midfield composition look more balanced.
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Who would you choose between Fofana and Wiefer ?

Are they both can play as a lone 6 ?

what do you think will be their price ?
 
SAF is the GOAT said:
Who would you choose between Fofana and Wiefer ?

Are they both can play as a lone 6 ?

what do you think will be their price ?
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Fofana is playing in a better league and imo is best suited to playing in a double pivot. And Wiefer is someone who is playing in a weaker league but does have the potential to play as the single pivot in midfield and is physically quite a imposing player at 6'3 and has potential to be a good ball progressor from a deeper role. I think imo he'd cost around £30m but that's just a guess but he does look a interesting player who could be possibly be signed as a low risk, high reward type of midfielder alongside a Amadou Onana.
 
Cathy Ferguson said:
I doubt Rodri would be as good as he is if he were 1.74m.

Neves would play as no8 in the PL.
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For City, never. But Pep has always been married to the idea of having a stationary No 6. He has talked about it numerous times explaining how it’s so hard for a GK or CBs or full backs to under pressure make a good pass to a No 6 that always is moving around — that he wants his No 6 to not run around looking for open spaces.

In addition, playing defense when you attack with as many players as City does is all about — not — losing the ball in certain situations.

You know when you turn the play and things look somewhat exciting, we move forward with 6-7 players, and then Antony or Rashford or someone is a little reckless with the ball and all of a sudden we are facing a counter attack against us instead. City is — extremely — disciplined in these situations. Unless they are certain that they can get off a shot almost, they will turn back, make a few pirouettes around the perimeter, let those 6-7 players moving up pitch arrive in the right positions, the defending team will of course pick them up and sink very deep — and then City gets to work starting to take risks.

This is why Rodri works so fantastically well for them. When he defends as a CDM it’s target practice against a deep sitting team that is hit with a very heavy pressure. This is also why Bousquets did so well for Barca.

Don’t get me wrong — Rodri would of course be a fantastic asset for any team. But just move him to play for Klopp and he immediately is held back more by his big body running up and down the pitch.
 
Adnan said:
Redondo stylistically looks similar to a Busquets type #6 and Moscardo shares similarities to a Roy Keane/Paul Ince where his ground coverage, duel winning ability, ball carrying along with his technical qualities in possession are very good for his age. It's difficult to say if Moscardo will end up as a single pivot or someone utilised in a more box to box role due to him recently turning 18. But he does look a interesting prospect with a well rounded game and someone who I think could develop into a very good midfielder for a top team. I think both types of midfielders can exist in a midfield composition with the only question mark being that can they adapt to the EPL. I think Moscardo is made for the EPL, and Redondo as long as he's got players around him at CB and in midfield who can eat up ground quickly, then he will have the platform to potentially thrive.

More and more coaches are adopting to play in a compact high block with the aim of defending from the front, so it's important the players furthest back in the block have physical and athletic capabilities to compact space and hence control/contain the opponent's fast transitions. Being aerially dominant in such a setup is a bonus but it's far more important to have players who are strong at compacting space when the space opens up in transition.

Moscardo is still very young and falls into the developmental type talent but I'd say stylistically he's very rounded potentially and would work well with Amadou Onana. I know Onana has played as a single #6 for Belgium in some games but imo he's best utilised as the #8 where he can step into a double pivot in the build up phase but also drive forward with the ball in a box to box #8 role. He's surprisingly press resistant for such a big unit and can evade/resist the opponent's press very well along with helping the team progress the ball with his surging runs from midfield.

There's other options apart from Amadou Onana as well who I believe we can also target. And if we target players who have the physical, athletic and technical qualities in possession, then I'm confident we'll be a very competitive team before long. If you know how you want to play in possession along with understanding what is required of your players out of possession when they're playing 40 yards higher up the pitch in a compact high block, then it's not difficult to sign the correct profile of players. Data analytics can only help you if you first know what you're looking for, and if you don't know what you're looking for then data analytics isn't going to be of great help imo.
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I keep seeing this Amadou Onana idea...he is NOT good enough. His passing is not elite, his dribbling is meh, his positioning is very average and he doesn't score much either. His carrying is based on strength rather than technique. This has Fellaini and Mctominay vibes written all over it. He tackles well and does the defensive work really well but Manutd expects a lot more from the DM than just tackling. Actually, for top teams, tackling is the last thing required. Carrick, Busquets etc all dominated midfield from just good game reading and positioning. Even for Belgium, watch him against the top sides in the world...he disappears into the background. We should not spend the kind of money Everton will ask for on such a limited footballer. Onana is not Pogba at all...Pogba confused everyone, as long as you are big and can dominate weak teams they call you the next Pogba. Pogba had elite passing and elite dribbling...Onana is not it at all. Just spend a few moments and watch Onana vs. Manchester City, Liverpool, Arsenal, or any other top team. He never dominates that midfield in any area. We of course can buy him and mould him, BUT for the money Everton will ask for, we should go buy other more complete midfielders for much less
 
Mwooyo said:
I keep seeing this Amadou Onana idea...he is NOT good enough. His passing is not elite, his dribbling is meh, his positioning is very average and he doesn't score much either. His carrying is based on strength rather than technique. This has Fellaini and Mctominay vibes written all over it. He tackles well and does the defensive work really well but Manutd expects a lot more from the DM than just tackling. Actually, for top teams, tackling is the last thing required. Carrick, Busquets etc all dominated midfield from just good game reading and positioning. Even for Belgium, watch him against the top sides in the world...he disappears into the background. We should not spend the kind of money Everton will ask for on such a limited footballer. Onana is not Pogba at all...Pogba confused everyone, as long as you are big and can dominate weak teams they call you the next Pogba. Pogba had elite passing and elite dribbling...Onana is not it at all. Just spend a few moments and watch Onana vs. Manchester City, Liverpool, Arsenal, or any other top team. He never dominates that midfield in any area. We of course can buy him and mould him, BUT for the money Everton will ask for, we should go buy other more complete midfielders for much less
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You obviously know very little about the player.

 
Adnan said:
You obviously know very little about the player.

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I actually do know about the player. You are literally quoting stats for Everton. Being the best in a bad team doesn't mean anything. Onana ain't it....he is a good player, don't get me wrong...he just is not good enough for the top teams. Just go watch him vs top teams...don't get bogged down on stats without the Eye test. Onana === Midfield Lukaku (Great stats in a bad team)
 
Mwooyo said:
I actually do know about the player. You are literally quoting stats for Everton. Being the best in a bad team doesn't mean anything. Onana ain't it....he is a good player, don't get me wrong...he just is not good enough for the top teams. Just go watch him vs top teams...don't get bogged down on stats without the Eye test. Onana === Midfield Lukaku (Great stats in a bad team)
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Amadou Onana is a player that is required in a team that wants to play higher up the pitch. His ability to dominate duels is up there with the best in the league. And he's playing for a Everton team that isn't very good. In the EPL right now you need a variety of players who can dominate in possession as well as control the defensive transition when the opponent is transitioning on the counter. How do you suggest we control the defensive transition out of possession when playing in a higher line? We can't just throw everything on controlling the game in possession because I don't believe we'll be able to do that in the most physically demanding league in the world.
 
Adnan said:
Amadou Onana is a player that is required in a team that wants to play higher up the pitch. His ability to dominate duels is up there with the best in the league. And he's playing for a Everton team that isn't very good. In the EPL right now you need a variety of players who can dominate in possession as well as control the defensive transition when the opponent is transitioning on the counter. How do you suggest we control the defensive transition out of possession when playing in a higher line? We can't just throw everything on controlling the game in possession because I don't believe we'll be able to do that in the most physically demanding league in the world.
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That is the biggest myth going around. Playing high up the pitch does not need a player to dominate duels. It requires more of the opposite...positioning, channeling, intercepting being efficient on the ball, great vision, and timing of passes. Carrick helped us play high up the pitch and he was not dominating duels. Just flushing out danger at the right time. Onana would be worth the effort if he was relatively cheap and we would buy with the idea of molding him into that...however, for the price Everton will ask for...and his limited skills, he is NOT the guy. It will be Fred all over again. Fred had great tackle success, and a huge work rate but found himself benched...why? he was not good on the ball. For the top teams, you must be really good on the ball as a basic foundation. Onana is not. Even his carrying is not elite... it's based on pure strength, I wouldn't bother with this dude. Redondo or any of the other options mentioned are a much better fit for us.
 
Mwooyo said:
That is the biggest myth going around. Playing high up the pitch does not need a player to dominate duels. It requires more of the opposite...positioning, channeling, intercepting being efficient on the ball, great vision, and timing of passes. Carrick helped us play high up the pitch and he was not dominating duels. Just flushing out danger at the right time. Onana would be worth the effort if he was relatively cheap and we would buy with the idea of molding him into that...however, for the price Everton will ask for...and his limited skills, he is NOT the guy. It will be Fred all over again. Fred had great tackle success, and a huge work rate but found himself benched...why? he was not good on the ball. For the top teams, you must be really good on the ball as a basic foundation. Onana is not. Even his carrying is not elite... it's based on pure strength, I wouldn't bother with this dude. Redondo or any of the other options mentioned are a much better fit for us
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We didn't press high in a coordinated press when Carrick was playing for us and upon losing the ball Carrick would drop slightly deeper and hence being positionally sound in a lower block was fine. The new breed of coach isn't playing like that and are aggressively pressing high with players in rest defense who are strong at controlling the defensive transition in large spaces. Arsenal, Liverpool and even City now have players who are strong at winning duels. Take Akanji at City, him and Ake are being utilised as CBs who are expected to go one v one against attackers and they have the physical and athletic ability to contain/control transitions along with Rodrigo. Arsenal with Rice, Saliba and Gabriel and Liverpool had it with Van Dijk, Matip and their central midfielders who imo weren't the best on the ball. We're the only top team that has neglected that part of the game.
 
Adnan said:
We didn't press high in a coordinated press when Carrick was playing for us and upon losing the ball Carrick would drop slightly deeper and hence being positionally sound in a lower block was fine. The new breed of coach isn't playing like that and are aggressively pressing high with players in rest defense who are strong at controlling the defensive transition in large spaces. Arsenal, Liverpool and even City now have players who are strong at winning duels. Take Akanji at City, him and Ake are being utilised as CBs who are expected to go one v one against attackers and they have the physical and athletic ability to contain/control transitions along with Rodrigo. Arsenal with Rice, Saliba and Gabriel and Liverpool had it with Van Dijk, Matip and their central midfielders who imo weren't the best on the ball. We're the only top team that has neglected that part of the game.
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Lets skip carrick...how about busquets at Barcelona. Where they not a modern high pressing team. How about rodri at mancity...are they not a high pressing team. All the comparisons with akanji and ake are absolutely useless because they are not midfielders. Even when you talk of declan rice, he is overall like 100 times better than Onana with the ball.

Onana is NOT elite on the ball...that is MAJOR problem for midfielders of top teams. It doesn't matter how hard he works etc, as long as he isnt really elite...he will not make it at manutd. Why? because we have already had midfielders like Onana before...Fred is the most recent one. Mctominay is another one

Onana and mctominay have similar strengths and weaknesses...with Onana being slightly better. Why should we pay Everton 50 or 60m for slightly better. Did we not learn from the mount mistake. Onanas biggest issue is he looks kinda like Pogba so everyone thinks he is Pogba with the defensive work rate. Nope. He is not, he is nothing like Pogba on the ball.

Onana is just lukaku part 2. Lukaku at Everton used to pass the stats test but never the eye test. Everytime you sat and watched him, you could see the lack of technical skills or vision in his game. But we blunded then and got carried away with the stats and the young age. We should not blunder again
 
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Mwooyo said:
Lets skip carrick...how about busquets at Barcelona. Where they not a modern high pressing team. How about rodri at mancity...are they not a high pressing team. All the comparisons with akanji and ake are absolutely useless because they are not midfielders. Even when you talk of declan rice, he is overall like 100 times better than Onana with the ball.

Onana is NOT elite on the ball...that is MAJOR problem for midfielders of top teams. It doesn't matter how hard he works etc, as long as he isnt really elite...he will not make it at manutd. Why? because we have already had midfielders like Onana before...Fred is the most recent one. Mctominay is another one

Onana and mctominay have similar strengths and weaknesses...with Onana being slightly better. Why should we pay Everton 50 or 60m for slightly better. Did we not learn from the mount mistake. Onanas biggest issue is he looks kinda like Pogba so everyone thinks he is Pogba with the defensive work rate. Nope. He is not, he is nothing like Pogba on the ball.

Onana is just lukaku part 2. Lukaku at Everton used to pass the stats test but never the eye test. Everytime you sat and watched him, you could see the lack of technical skills or vision in his game. But we blunded then and got carried away with the stats and the young age. We should not blunder again
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Onana is a superior player to both McTominay and Fred. A player like Mctominay who constantly hides from the ball isn't a patch on Amadou Onana.

And I don't believe Onana is similar to Pogba but rather we needed players like Onana to play alongside Pogba to make best use of Pogba's creative talents. Like France did where they had two athletic players covering for Pogba in Kante and Matuidi and they won a World Cup with Pogba playing well in a deeper role with the defensive duties taken care of. Both Matuidi and Kante are good on the ball but they won't elite. It's about creating a system for your best players to thrive in possession.

If you can point me to where the next Busquets or Rodri is then we can sign that player. And I've written posts about how we should sign Rodri from Atletico Madrid in the past. Just tell me where these players are because a peak Busquets along with Rodri would be the correct signing. We've got Mainoo and are being linked with Joao Neves who are both potentially progressive midfielders with a high technical level. Having Amadou Onana will only help the younger midfielders thrive and you don't need elite players in every position on the pitch as long they're functional and enhance the system then you can win the league like Liverpool have shown with the likes of Wijnaldum and Henderson.
 
Mwooyo said:
Lets skip carrick...how about busquets at Barcelona. Where they not a modern high pressing team. How about rodri at mancity...are they not a high pressing team. All the comparisons with akanji and ake are absolutely useless because they are not midfielders. Even when you talk of declan rice, he is overall like 100 times better than Onana with the ball.

Onana is NOT elite on the ball...that is MAJOR problem for midfielders of top teams. It doesn't matter how hard he works etc, as long as he isnt really elite...he will not make it at manutd. Why? because we have already had midfielders like Onana before...Fred is the most recent one. Mctominay is another one

Onana and mctominay have similar strengths and weaknesses...with Onana being slightly better. Why should we pay Everton 50 or 60m for slightly better. Did we not learn from the mount mistake. Onanas biggest issue is he looks kinda like Pogba so everyone thinks he is Pogba with the defensive work rate. Nope. He is not, he is nothing like Pogba on the ball.

Onana is just lukaku part 2. Lukaku at Everton used to pass the stats test but never the eye test. Everytime you sat and watched him, you could see the lack of technical skills or vision in his game. But we blunded then and got carried away with the stats and the young age. We should not blunder again
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To be honest I pretty much shared this view when we were first linked. But I ended up watching Everton a lot from October to the break and he's practically always the standout. Against Liverpool, in particular, he was probably the best player on the pitch before the dodgy penalty changed the game.

The McTominay comparison falls down straight away because Onana is always looking for the ball and is often used as an outlet to escape pressure. If he doesn't beat a player and lay it off then he very often wins a foul at the very least. As to the Fred matchup, he's nowhere near as loose in possession and while a big part of that is because he has a beneficial physique that he knows how to use, it makes him a far more valuable player.

He isn't the most progressive passer around, but he does get it up the pitch by beating players, while being very good at the defensive part of the game - qualities we could use on both counts. I'd absolutely take him based on this this season.
 
Adnan said:
If you can point me to where the next Busquets or Rodri is then we can sign that player. And I've written posts about how we should sign Rodri from Atletico Madrid in the past. Just tell me where these players are because a peak Busquets along with Rodri would be the correct signing. We've got Mainoo and are being linked with Joao Neves who are both potentially progressive midfielders with a high technical level. Having Amadou Onana will only help the younger midfielders thrive and you don't need elite players in every position on the pitch as long they're functional and enhance the system then you can win the league like Liverpool have shown with the likes of Wijnaldum and Henderson.
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Zubimendi
 
Sounds like the most Wolves player name imaginable. Must be a tidy midfielder.
 
didz said:
To be honest I pretty much shared this view when we were first linked. But I ended up watching Everton a lot from October to the break and he's practically always the standout. Against Liverpool, in particular, he was probably the best player on the pitch before the dodgy penalty changed the game.

The McTominay comparison falls down straight away because Onana is always looking for the ball and is often used as an outlet to escape pressure. If he doesn't beat a player and lay it off then he very often wins a foul at the very least. As to the Fred matchup, he's nowhere near as loose in possession and while a big part of that is because he has a beneficial physique that he knows how to use, it makes him a far more valuable player.

He isn't the most progressive passer around, but he does get it up the pitch by beating players, while being very good at the defensive part of the game - qualities we could use on both counts. I'd absolutely take him based on this this season.
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Nah, I think the problem is watching him without the other options. There are a good number of better options we can and should be looking at. This is especially true when you consider how much Everton will ask for. Let's move on...I would keep the options we have currently over signing this dude. Rather go splash that money on Micheal Olise and fix the RW permanently.
 
didz said:
To be honest I pretty much shared this view when we were first linked. But I ended up watching Everton a lot from October to the break and he's practically always the standout. Against Liverpool, in particular, he was probably the best player on the pitch before the dodgy penalty changed the game.

The McTominay comparison falls down straight away because Onana is always looking for the ball and is often used as an outlet to escape pressure. If he doesn't beat a player and lay it off then he very often wins a foul at the very least. As to the Fred matchup, he's nowhere near as loose in possession and while a big part of that is because he has a beneficial physique that he knows how to use, it makes him a far more valuable player.

He isn't the most progressive passer around, but he does get it up the pitch by beating players, while being very good at the defensive part of the game - qualities we could use on both counts. I'd absolutely take him based on this this season.
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Same. Dont think «stats» do him justice. Huge presence.
 
Messier1994 said:
For City, never. But Pep has always been married to the idea of having a stationary No 6. He has talked about it numerous times explaining how it’s so hard for a GK or CBs or full backs to under pressure make a good pass to a No 6 that always is moving around — that he wants his No 6 to not run around looking for open spaces.

In addition, playing defense when you attack with as many players as City does is all about — not — losing the ball in certain situations.

You know when you turn the play and things look somewhat exciting, we move forward with 6-7 players, and then Antony or Rashford or someone is a little reckless with the ball and all of a sudden we are facing a counter attack against us instead. City is — extremely — disciplined in these situations. Unless they are certain that they can get off a shot almost, they will turn back, make a few pirouettes around the perimeter, let those 6-7 players moving up pitch arrive in the right positions, the defending team will of course pick them up and sink very deep — and then City gets to work starting to take risks.

This is why Rodri works so fantastically well for them. When he defends as a CDM it’s target practice against a deep sitting team that is hit with a very heavy pressure. This is also why Bousquets did so well for Barca.

Don’t get me wrong — Rodri would of course be a fantastic asset for any team. But just move him to play for Klopp and he immediately is held back more by his big body running up and down the pitch.
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Good post Sir.
 
Made a point to watch him tonight. Well, the first half anyway before I had to go out. He was again quality, and stopped a few attacks with tackles too. I’m a firm believer that you don’t get the best out of players like him and Mainoo until you have a partner for them who they can play their game with. Like, you can’t play Xavi and McTominay in midfield. Scott doesn’t allow Xavi to be the best he can be. Xavi and Iniesta (and Busquets) all got the best out of each other’s game because they were on the same wavelength.

Whether it’s Neves or not, I believe we will see the best of Mainoo when his midfield partners are also highly technical and composed on the ball. Because they will trust each other with it in all circumstances, even in the tightest of spaces, and basically run rings around opponents. It’s great that Mainoo is graceful, but he’s not going to do a give and go with McTominay in the centre circle and break forward. Neves/Gore/Hannibal is the type we need in our midfield.
 
Cathy Ferguson said:
Will of course depend on his role in the team. Height is quite important for a CDM but not for an AM like the players you mention.
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To be fair, some of the best defensive minded midfielders (of a box-to-box or anchoring variety) in league history, like Makelélé, Kanté or Mascherano, have been relatively “short”. Height, within a resonable range of course, should not be a limiting factor if the rest of a player's game lines up (and he evidences the requisite physicality and tenacity), and the structure around him mitigates certain concerns.

Given Neves' all-action style, deftness in possession, aggresiveness, low center of gravity and comfortability in half-spaces, he could operate as a left or right sided midfielder in a 4—3—3, too (as is by no means a pure, isolated No. 6).




There are four major issues, with this potential signing:
  • The player is good but exceptionally young for the position (and there will be growing pains, no doubt). Should we properly commit to a long-term project, and take that risk as a club that already expects a lot from lads like Mainoo, Garnacho, Højlund (who are all works in progress but expected to be our saviors, in contrast with the finished articles at leading Premier League outfits?) Don't mind that approach at all, personally speaking, but vast segments of the support-base have a different mindset and will expect immediate results (at this point, you can't even blame them — they're sold false promises of new beginnings, which simply don't materialize in ensuing years).
  • Do we want to develop Mainoo as a No. 8 or as a No. 6, and as a single pivot player or as a double pivot player? There's some overlap between his and Neves' skill set(s), so there must be a clear plan with a degree of compartmentalization, where they fit together and accentuate each others' strengths (we clearly didn't have this plan when we made expensive signings like Fellaini, Mata, Pogba, Di María — who were moved around quite a bit and oftentimes put in unfavorable positions, and consequently failed to produce their best football on a consistent basis).
  • Our play needs to be better organized and more streamlined to get the best out of a prospective Mainoo x Neves partnership, be it in a midfield three or in a double pivot with a No. 10 ahead of them (or a double pivot in a 3—4—3 and, so forth). Playing poorly structured, frantic football with reliance on individualism (where the base of the midfield is excessively strained, catering and defering to more advanced but less technically refined players (who treat the ball as a hot potato), chasing shadows on a regular basis and needlessly scrambling with their decision-making) is not ideally suited to their developing abilities, particularly if they have an erratic, consummate speculator of a No. 10 ahead of them (who invites even more pressure).
  • He is going to be extremely expensive, maybe even prohibitively so; lots of personnel-related deficiencies need fixing at United so spending €70-120 million on a talented but still unproven kid might not be the best idea all things considered?
 
IrishRedDevil said:
Please put him beside Mainoo

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He’d be expensive but fantastic. If we sell Casemiro and McT then I’d be all in on getting him this summer, alongside a someone like K. Thuram to provide something different in midfield too.
 
Remember the geese said:
He doesn't look like a DM. Bring him in by all means, but we definitely need a DM too.
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I agree that I wouldn’t bring him in as a DM. It Doesn’t look like both him and Silva will be leaving Benfica in the summer so maybe he’ll be an option in 2025.
Normally I’d look to build a midfield from roughly 1 CAM, one CM and a DM. It’s anyones guess at this point where Mainoo will eventually end up but I don’t think it’s outside the realms of possibility that you could build a well balanced midfield like this;

Mainoo - Neves

DM​

Sort of like the Real Madrid midfield of Kroos, Casemiro and Modric.
I really feel that for this summer a DM has to be first priority, and that spending however much Benfica would ask for Neves probably isn’t an option unless we can balance our budget through sales.
 
Raoul said:
This is where offering a player or two combined with a decent fee would be beneficial.
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There's no player we'll be willing to give that Benfica would be interested or could afford. This isn't Fifa swaping players is almost impossible.
 
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