Joao Neves | signed for PSG

[davidmichael]

We aren't going to spend 100m on a 19 year old deep playmaker when we have to sign at least 2 center backs and a couple of midfielders (with the physical DM being the priority next to Mainoo). Oh and we won't have CL football next season for the extra income, oh and we have FFP issues.
Do people even try making rumors realistic or nah?

Isn’t Neves more of a ball winning player that’s very good on the ball too with a good range of passing that sits in front of the back four ? Not in the same ball winning mould as a Casemiro as Neves isn’t as physical but from what I’ve seen Neves can tackle, good positionally, good stamina, good range of passing and lots of potential to become world class.

 

[davbon]

Isn’t Neves more of a ball winning player that’s very good on the ball too with a good range of passing that sits in front of the back four ? Not in the same ball winning mould as a Casemiro as Neves isn’t as physical but from what I’ve seen Neves can tackle, good positionally, good stamina, good range of passing and lots of potential to become world class.

That is very true. People here really underestimate Neves' ball-winning abilities as they see a slight guy who is good on the ball. He is not a lone 6 but I'm certain who would work so well Mainoo in a double pivot.

 

[davidmichael]

That is very true. People here really underestimate Neves' ball-winning abilities as they see a slight guy who is good on the ball. He is not a lone 6 but I'm certain who would work so well Mainoo in a double pivot.

Thank you for clarifying mate, from what I’ve also seen I thought he’s the type that would be perfect in a two man midfield but can also play in a three man as long as he’s not the one solely left as a pure defensive midfielder like a Makelele.

The problem we have is Fernandes being such a luxury player and also now being captain as I think if we were to buy Neves from Benfica and Varela from Porto then play them two with Mainoo in a three man midfield we’d have a perfectly balanced midfield with a great mix of pace, power, creativity and steel.

I also love watching Angel Gomes play ever since he left United and he’s become a very good central player, his only downfall for me is his size but I’d love to bring him back as well as bringing in Neves and Varela and I’d happily move VdB, Casemiro, Eriksen and Hannibal to do so.

 

[devilish]

First of all a wise negotiator will probably not blow 100m on a player. He would probably break the fee into chunks payable per year for X amount of years. Thus if United is led by competent people and we're interested in Joao Neves then we might break the fee in 3 years for let's say 40m, 30m and 30m. Then we might find a buyer for McT for 40m which means that the first chunk would be on a free (give or take).

Then there are other factors to consider that might help the club to spare significant amount of money. For example I fully expect the club to go all in for Todibo and Thuram. They are both at Nice, the former wants to come and the latter has 1 year left in his contract. Its a win win for both clubs. United can get players on the cheap while Nice would benefit greatly in becoming an unofficial route to United as it would make it more attractive for the average player then it is now.

I haven't watched Joao Neves to give a definitive opinion on him. But keep in mind three things. First of all what made United sides great was how well players knew one another. There was a time when Scholes could pass the ball to Giggs without even watching simply because he knew exactly were the Welsh winger was. That gives the team that extra split of a second to exploit on opposition which made the treble side's counter attacks simply lethal. That understanding require time to build something Mainoo-Neves will have. Secondly legs plays a huge role in football. I've seen the tragic end of some of my favorite players from Baresi to Keane right to Gattuso, Buffon and Gaz. You can be the most experienced and talented player in the world but if you can't catch up with your opponents then you're sitting duck. Joao Neves has plenty of gas left in his tank. Finally a generational talent with the right talent and attitude is what says in the tin. SAF was renowned for being skint but he'll rarely let one of those go without a fight. When he did (ex Rio to Leeds) he went on eating humble pie the size of OT and went on buying him for way more money. You might say that those times are over. I'd reply to that with one simple question. How much would it cost you to buy Jude Bellingham now?

 

[Gordon S]

also love watching Angel Gomes play

Me too, doesn’t happen too often but am a bit impressed everytime i do. Half the size of Casemiro but much quicker, feet and thought. Doesn’t scream world class potential perhaps would love to have the option of a player in central positions that is really quick agile and tidy with the ball. Tired of seeing our leggy clumsy midfielders give the ball away far too often. He has mentioned he would love to come back and has a year left on his contract, could be a smart signing

 

[davidmichael]

First of all a wise negotiator will probably not blow 100m on a player. He would probably break the fee into chunks payable per year for X amount of years. Thus if United is led by competent people and we're interested in Joao Neves then we might break the fee in 3 years for let's say 40m, 30m and 30m. Then we might find a buyer for McT for 40m which means that the first chunk would be on a free (give or take).

Then there are other factors to consider that might help the club to spare significant amount of money. For example I fully expect the club to go all in for Todibo and Thuram. They are both at Nice, the former wants to come and the latter has 1 year left in his contract. Its a win win for both clubs. United can get players on the cheap while Nice would benefit greatly in becoming an unofficial route to United as it would make it more attractive for the average player then it is now.

I haven't watched Joao Neves to give a definitive opinion on him. But keep in mind three things. First of all what made United sides great was how well players knew one another. There was a time when Scholes could pass the ball to Giggs without even watching simply because he knew exactly were the Welsh winger was. That gives the team that extra split of a second to exploit on opposition which made the treble side's counter attacks simply lethal. That understanding require time to build something Mainoo-Neves will have. Secondly legs plays a huge role in football. I've seen the tragic end of some of my favorite players from Baresi to Keane right to Gattuso, Buffon and Gaz. You can be the most experienced and talented player in the world but if you can't catch up with your opponents then you're sitting duck. Joao Neves has plenty of gas left in his tank. Finally a generational talent with the right talent and attitude is what says in the tin. SAF was renowned for being skint but he'll rarely let one of those go without a fight. When he did (ex Rio to Leeds) he went on eating humble pie the size of OT and went on buying him for way more money. You might say that those times are over. I'd reply to that with one simple question. How much would it cost you to buy Jude Bellingham now?

The bolded part is a massive part of how we’ll almost certainly now operate as we’re bringing in people like Berrada, Ashworth, Blanc and trying for more so we’re best in class in recruitment and negotiations after years of being taken to the cleaners over transfers.

Just from an academy point of view you’ve got Greenwood, McTominay, Hannibal, Williams, Fernandez and Gore that could realistically bring in around £100 million which is pure profit then there’s Lindelof, Maguire, Varane, Casemiro, VdB, Eriksen, Sancho, Pellestri and Martial who we’re likely to see most of moved on which is massive wage wise but could bring in a fair amount also.

I don’t see Ratcliffe and his team allowing us to be ripped off anymore so transfers will be negotiated properly and expertly over periods of time and not ridiculously high due to panic, I don’t think Benfica would really want £100 million either but reporters are so lazy these days they don’t differentiate euros and pounds let alone know actual fees.

 

[Rozay]

One likely positive factor in a potential deal is that we seem to have gone in very early with Neves. By all accounts, he’s been identified a long while ago and we’ve likely been speaking to him/his people, communicating our vision and making the player feel wanted.

He does look a great CM in the making. I don’t worry about Mainoo at all. It’s like saying Barcelona are only allowed to have one of Pedri and Gavi. If it works, the true strength of the pair will come when the two are paired. Both players will bounce off each other, play triangles and develop a telepathy due to similar wavelength.

We are now in the midfield 3 era, so the third midfielder can be used to compliment the pair in different ways. A midfield of Mainoo/Neves + 6 would be applicable for certain games, and a midfield of Mainoo/Neves + 10 would be applicable for others. Both players do more than their fair share of defensive work for the latter scenario, and both have enough creativity for the former set of tactics. In a squad, you want to have about 6-7 options where all profiles are covered in midfield. A specialist DM and a specialist 10, who can also play out wide and will thus get games in both roles across a season would compliment them. A player like Eze, for example, would be great with them, as he’d play ahead of them as the 10 at home to Forest, and could play on the left ahead of them +6 away at City.

And all of this is before considering that we don’t really know which role Mainoo will take long term anyway, as he may well simply just be a DM himself. I certainly think we need a physical DM, but I wouldn’t be against Neves as a DM can often be bought for cheap with effective scouting. There are always loads of strong players who can cover ground and win duels. Fofana at Monaco for example has been linked, and is out of contract in a year I believe. Adrien Rabbit is out of contract this summer. Then there are others on the continent like Gourna-Douath or Mandela Keita who can probably be signed for less than 20m on low wages. Players like Bissouma, Sarr, Baleba, Kamara etc will always be available for 20m or less.

 

[gajender]

First of all a wise negotiator will probably not blow 100m on a player. He would probably break the fee into chunks payable per year for X amount of years. Thus if United is led by competent people and we're interested in Joao Neves then we might break the fee in 3 years for let's say 40m, 30m and 30m. Then we might find a buyer for McT for 40m which means that the first chunk would be on a free (give or take).

Then there are other factors to consider that might help the club to spare significant amount of money. For example I fully expect the club to go all in for Todibo and Thuram. They are both at Nice, the former wants to come and the latter has 1 year left in his contract. Its a win win for both clubs. United can get players on the cheap while Nice would benefit greatly in becoming an unofficial route to United as it would make it more attractive for the average player then it is now.

I haven't watched Joao Neves to give a definitive opinion on him. But keep in mind three things. First of all what made United sides great was how well players knew one another. There was a time when Scholes could pass the ball to Giggs without even watching simply because he knew exactly were the Welsh winger was. That gives the team that extra split of a second to exploit on opposition which made the treble side's counter attacks simply lethal. That understanding require time to build something Mainoo-Neves will have. Secondly legs plays a huge role in football. I've seen the tragic end of some of my favorite players from Baresi to Keane right to Gattuso, Buffon and Gaz. You can be the most experienced and talented player in the world but if you can't catch up with your opponents then you're sitting duck. Joao Neves has plenty of gas left in his tank. Finally a generational talent with the right talent and attitude is what says in the tin. SAF was renowned for being skint but he'll rarely let one of those go without a fight. When he did (ex Rio to Leeds) he went on eating humble pie the size of OT and went on buying him for way more money. You might say that those times are over. I'd reply to that with one simple question. How much would it cost you to buy Jude Bellingham now?

The bolded part is a massive part of how we’ll almost certainly now operate as we’re bringing in people like Berrada, Ashworth, Blanc and trying for more so we’re best in class in recruitment and negotiations after years of being taken to the cleaners over transfers.

Just from an academy point of view you’ve got Greenwood, McTominay, Hannibal, Williams, Fernandez and Gore that could realistically bring in around £100 million which is pure profit then there’s Lindelof, Maguire, Varane, Casemiro, VdB, Eriksen, Sancho, Pellestri and Martial who we’re likely to see most of moved on which is massive wage wise but could bring in a fair amount also.

I don’t see Ratcliffe and his team allowing us to be ripped off anymore so transfers will be negotiated properly and expertly over periods of time and not ridiculously high due to panic, I don’t think Benfica would really want £100 million either but reporters are so lazy these days they don’t differentiate euros and pounds let alone know actual fees.

You guys do realise that most transfers fees are paid and recieved in installments , infact our so called inept structure has been doing the same for years .

 

[Powderfinger]

£100m on a 19-year-old midfielder with one professional season as a regular first team starter in Portugal and who may have an uncertain adaptation to the pace and power of the PL is a move Todd Boehly would envy.

 

[Ali Dia]

Enzo (and Sancho/Antony who I thought were as close to sure things as you could get) have put me slightly off this transfer.

 

[AltiUn]

£100m on a 19-year-old midfielder with one professional season as a regular first team starter in Portugal and who may have an uncertain adaptation to the pace and power of the PL is a move Todd Boehly would envy.

You lot bid £85m for Mudryk so you can pipe down fella

 

[devilish]

You guys do realise that most transfers fees are paid and recieved in installments , infact our so called inept structure has been doing the same for years .

My point is that serious negotiators can drive the price down or at least keep it to a realistic level and then go on and break that deal in very manageable installments thus making the bid feel less daunting. Meanwhile they'll be selling the deadwood thus compensating for the fee in one way or another. We had struggled on all counts. The Maguire fee was said to have been paid in one big swoop while we went for Antony believing that he's a 30m signing only to end up spending 80m on him. The least said about our ability to sell players for a decent fee the better. Its all about having top quality people in the recruitment department who work 24/7 on each of those three stages. I remember an old interview of Mino Raiola were he was discussing Pogba's deal to United and Balotelli's deal to Nice. There couldn't be two more different deals in football at the time. Pogba's deal was a high profile transfer were the agent was fully dedicated in cutting as much flesh out of the deal as possible while the latter saw Raiola literally going around with the begging bowl and trying to find a suitor for this wantaway striker. Raiola would claim that he had dedicated equal energy on both to get the maximum benefit out of both deals. A good negotiator can drive prices down, he can find money out of nowhere (ie by polishing and then selling turds) and he can break deals in ways that they become manageable.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Enzo (and Sancho/Antony who I thought were as close to sure things as you could get) have put me slightly off this transfer.

I'd gladly take Enzo off their hands when he finally decides to leave that mess.

 

[Powderfinger]

You lot bid £85m for Mudryk so you can pipe down fella

That number included a lot of unlikely to be realized add ons but it was still clearly stupid in hindsight and thankfully we didn't get the player.

 

[OleGunnar20]

That is very true. People here really underestimate Neves' ball-winning abilities as they see a slight guy who is good on the ball. He is not a lone 6 but I'm certain who would work so well Mainoo in a double pivot.

Agreed. I think Neves - Mainoo would be a potentially world class midfield, either behind the right #10 or alongside someone more balanced if we're looking to keep things tighter.

If the price is £100m of course its a non starter with the amount of work our squad needs. But if you could snag him for say £60m, move a decent wedge of players out and still invest in 3 or 4 more smart purchases I could see the sense in that.

Seems unlikely knowing Benfica.

 

[aeh1991]

sigh.. After all these years you guys would still blow £100m on one 19 year old player, while ignoring the other positions? Have you not learnt from our past mistakes (as well as Chelsea's recent ones)? with that money you could buy 2-3 really good players instead. Just as an example, let's take these 3 players who have release clauses: Nico Williams (43m), Frimpong (35m), Dovbyk (25m) = 103m. Would be a better deal, no?

 

[AltiUn]

That number included a lot of unlikely to be realized add ons but it was still clearly stupid in hindsight and thankfully we didn't get the player.

I am actually in agreement that we’d be completely fecking mental to spend that sort of money on a teenager, especially given how many areas we need to sort out as is

 

[Ghostrider318]

sigh.. After all these years you guys would still blow £100m on one 19 year old player, while ignoring the other positions? Have you not learnt from our past mistakes (as well as Chelsea's recent ones)? with that money you could buy 2-3 really good players instead. Just as an example, let's take these 3 players who have release clauses: Nico Williams (43m), Frimpong (35m), Dovbyk (25m) = 103m. Would be a better deal, no?

Sshhh. Youre not allowed to use logic here

 

[Ali Dia]

I am actually in agreement that we’d be completely fecking mental to spend that sort of money on a teenager, especially given how many areas we need to sort out as is

Then again we *cheaped out* by signing Casemiro instead of Rice. Which is looking like a better value transfer now? That was a Fergie transfer. Kane for 60/70 a few years ago also. It nails down a position for years with a player who has already excelled in the league in a worse team. It’s smart. Neves might actually turn out to be another one of these kind of unmissable players but If we are taking punts on players who’ve never played in the league I do think we need to cap it as it’s 50-50 at best whether it’ll work out.

 

[Rozay]

sigh.. After all these years you guys would still blow £100m on one 19 year old player, while ignoring the other positions? Have you not learnt from our past mistakes (as well as Chelsea's recent ones)? with that money you could buy 2-3 really good players instead. Just as an example, let's take these 3 players who have release clauses: Nico Williams (43m), Frimpong (35m), Dovbyk (25m) = 103m. Would be a better deal, no?

There is no formula to that. To answer your question, the more impactful player(s) would be the better deal. It’s that simple. Declan Rice at 105m is better value than 3 squad players at 30m each. Is buying Martial for 35m, Memphis for 20m, Mata for 37m a better long term investment than us spending 100m on Harry Kane at 24?

 

[AltiUn]

Then again we *cheaped out* by signing Casemiro instead of Rice. Which is looking like a better value transfer now? That was a Fergie transfer. Kane for 60/70 a few years ago also. It nails down a position for years with a player who has already excelled in the league in a worse team. It’s smart. Neves might actually turn out to be another one of these kind of unmissable players but If we are taking punts on players who’ve never played in the league I do think we need to cap it as it’s 50-50 at best whether it’ll work out.

Rice was 24, West Ham captain and already had over 200 senior appearances. Not even remotely similar situations. We shouldn't be spending £100m on anybody until the squad is in a far healthier and balanced state.

 

[Ali Dia]

Rice was 24, West Ham captain and already had over 200 senior appearances. Not even remotely similar situations. We shouldn't be spending £100m on anybody until the squad is in a far healthier and balanced state.

To be fair the links to Rice had been going on since his early 20s. I didn’t see it with him but he’s been a shrewd signing for sure. Much better than other flashier names in the same position who moved for big money

 

[Blood Mage]

100 mil you are having a laugh, we're no longer in a position where we can take such financial risks even for such a talented player.

 

[Drz]

Only way this happens is if INEOS want to make a statement signing and somehow inject cash directly to that effect.
The positives:
- Grow into a partnership in midfield alongside Mainoo
- Forge an understanding with Bruno which could be helpful for his national team as well
Cons:
- Might leave United a bit vulnerable in overall hight of the team or in terms of physicality
- We would need another player in the DM position even if we assume he can play there

 

[aeh1991]

There is no formula to that. To answer your question, the more impactful player(s) would be the better deal. It’s that simple. Declan Rice at 105m is better value than 3 squad players at 30m each. Is buying Martial for 35m, Memphis for 20m, Mata for 37m a better long term investment than us spending 100m on Harry Kane at 24?

I would argue that, at this point, signing those three would have a much bigger impact than one Joao Neves. Also, Rice or Kane were EPL proven, older and less risky than a teenager from the Portuguese league who just has his breakthrough season. Not writing off any of his qualities but there is a huge risk, especially since we need to strengthen a lot of other positions as well.

 

[Dion]

You can't build a team around two 19 year old midfielders, and for £100m you would have to build the team around Neves.

If you're building a squad and you spend £100m on Neves then you have to sell Mainoo to raise funds to buy a more established player to play next to Neves. That to me just seems pointless.

He's a cracking player but it's the wrong time for us. We need someone a couple of years older.

 

[Kingslayer18]

One likely positive factor in a potential deal is that we seem to have gone in very early with Neves. By all accounts, he’s been identified a long while ago and we’ve likely been speaking to him/his people, communicating our vision and making the player feel wanted.

He does look a great CM in the making. I don’t worry about Mainoo at all. It’s like saying Barcelona are only allowed to have one of Pedri and Gavi. If it works, the true strength of the pair will come when the two are paired. Both players will bounce off each other, play triangles and develop a telepathy due to similar wavelength.

We are now in the midfield 3 era, so the third midfielder can be used to compliment the pair in different ways. A midfield of Mainoo/Neves + 6 would be applicable for certain games, and a midfield of Mainoo/Neves + 10 would be applicable for others. Both players do more than their fair share of defensive work for the latter scenario, and both have enough creativity for the former set of tactics. In a squad, you want to have about 6-7 options where all profiles are covered in midfield. A specialist DM and a specialist 10, who can also play out wide and will thus get games in both roles across a season would compliment them. A player like Eze, for example, would be great with them, as he’d play ahead of them as the 10 at home to Forest, and could play on the left ahead of them +6 away at City.

And all of this is before considering that we don’t really know which role Mainoo will take long term anyway, as he may well simply just be a DM himself. I certainly think we need a physical DM, but I wouldn’t be against Neves as a DM can often be bought for cheap with effective scouting. There are always loads of strong players who can cover ground and win duels. Fofana at Monaco for example has been linked, and is out of contract in a year I believe. Adrien Rabbit is out of contract this summer. Then there are others on the continent like Gourna-Douath or Mandela Keita who can probably be signed for less than 20m on low wages. Players like Bissouma, Sarr, Baleba, Kamara etc will always be available for 20m or less.

I don't think a Mainoo-Neves midfield pair are complementary. I think that backfield lacks power and there is a lot of overlap of skills. Although a specialist DM behind them could do a lot of heavy lifting, I don't know if it is ideal to build a midfield pair that are very similar as opposed to offering different attributes that make up greater than the sum of the parts. Given his transfer fee, I think we should look elsewhere for that no 8/6 player that can better complement Mainoo in a midfield. The specialist 10 that can also play out wide essentially describes Mount, so we probably won't look to bring in a player like Eze until Bruno gets sold. By the time Bruno gets sold, Eze will be 27/28 and we will probably look to bring in a younger player. If we could rewind the transfer window, we should've gone for Eze rather than Mount given the transfer fee we paid. If you're going for Mount and he's close to his last contract year, we should've paid no more than 40m. But alas.........

 

[CallyRed]

How's he been doing against the mighty Rangers?

 

[Lash]

How's he been doing against the mighty Rangers?

Absolutely superb, he just doesn't stop running and battling. I will be camping in this thread come the summer!

 

[mu4c_20le]

How's he been doing against the mighty Rangers?

Usual self, mature decision making and positioning. Great engine. Would immediately be better than Enzo if he came here.

 

[bosnian_red]

Absolutely superb, he just doesn't stop running and battling. I will be camping in this thread come the summer!

Don't waste your time, he might be a world class prospect but it's a non starter for us this summer

 

[DJ_21]

Not sure he’s someone who we’ll splash a lot of money on. We don’t have it to spend and we have so many positions we need.

 

[Lash]

Don't waste your time, he might be a world class prospect but it's a non starter for us this summer

Tell that to 1000+ pages of the De Jong threads. I've learned nothing.

 

[Dinghy]

I like him. Had many tough challenges where he easily could have gone down for a roll, yet he always stayed on his feet. Surely can't be portugese...

 

[golden_blunder]

I like him. Had many tough challenges where he easily could have gone down for a roll, yet he always stayed on his feet. Surely can't be portugese...

Don’t worry Bruno will soon coach that out of him

 

[didz]

Only way this happens is if INEOS want to make a statement signing and somehow inject cash directly to that effect.
The positives:
- Grow into a partnership in midfield alongside Mainoo
- Forge an understanding with Bruno which could be helpful for his national team as well
Cons:
- Might leave United a bit vulnerable in overall hight of the team or in terms of physicality
- We would need another player in the DM position even if we assume he can play there

He's pretty bloody good in the air for his size and I don't think he'll struggle much physically, but I'm not too sure about building a midfield around two 19 year olds, regardless of their quality. Chelsea's attempts to get Caicedo and Enzo going is a bit of a cautionary tale and they've got years on Mainoo and Neves - arguably talent too. Experience does help.

 

[redNATION]

Him, Mainoo with Wirtz just in front would be unstoppable, Ineos gave to make it happen

 

[UpWithRivers]

I think the days of every player they have being worth 100 mill plus is coming to an end. Who's going to buy him for 100 mill? If we want him bid 60/70 and walk away. If someone outbids us for 80 mill plus then fair enough. But I don't think there will be many takers

 

[OleGunnar20]

I think the days of every player they have being worth 100 mill plus is coming to an end. Who's going to buy him for 100 mill? If we want him bid 60/70 and walk away. If someone outbids us for 80 mill plus then fair enough. But I don't think there will be many takers

Yep, I agree. £60m would be a very good deal considering we spent that on Mount last year..

If Benfica have a better offer / don't accept that's fine, move on. Either way he looks an amazing prospect and I'd love to see him develop next to Mainoo.

 

[Roboc7]

I think the days of every player they have being worth 100 mill plus is coming to an end. Who's going to buy him for 100 mill? If we want him bid 60/70 and walk away. If someone outbids us for 80 mill plus then fair enough. But I don't think there will be many takers

Hopefully this is the type of logic we start to see at United. Neves looks like a really good player but 60-70m is more than enough. If he can’t be bought for that then move on to other targets.

The market is going to have to settle down, it might take a bit of time especially if Chelsea or someone else have another summer of going crazy. We also need a lot of players so going to have to spread our money around rather than go all in on a handful of players as we have done recently.