Joao Felix / on loan to Chelsea

[UNITED ACADEMY]

First off, no. It doesn’t strike me as particularly unfair on Antony at all. Unfair on Rashford, maybe.

Rashford has played seasons with Ibrahimovic, Lukaku and Cavani upfront (pls don’t tell me any one of them was Bergkamp style) often playing RW to accommodate Pogba or Martial on the left, in a team struggling for top 4 most seasons and in a much tougher league. Yet his scoring stats are still better than Antony’s playing in the Dutch league, with Ajax. So, please…

Well, that's not true.
In 16/17 with Zlatan, Rashford had 5 league goals playing 1703 minutes. While Antony had 9 league goals playing 1774 minutes in 20/21.
In 17/18 with Lukaku, Rashford had 7 league goals playing 1810 minites. While Antony had 8 league goals playing 1736 minutes in 21/22.

And you’re also ignoring what I said, about not basing it purely on stats but in seeing both play. Rashford on the left plays more like forward on the wing. Antony plays more like a winger. You’re also ignoring what I said about this not being a final conclusion, players do evolve, but this is certainly what I’m seeing for now.

You were the one who started talking about Salah, Mane, Rashford, and Antony's stats. The 55 goals was you the one who mentioned it first, Antony's stats at ajax was also you, and your false statement about Rashford had better scoring stats than Antony were also started by you, which I had to reveal their stats to call it as false.

In fact, I didn't base it on stats butI based it on what I watched and I view Antony and Rashford talent as more goals provider than assist provider. The reason why you are seeing Antony plays more like a winger because he doesn't play with the Bergkamp type of striker.

No, that’s very clearly a wrong opinion. £15m for Dan James and £80m for Antony are clearly transfers of a different risk. Dan James didn’t work out yet we made profit. If Antony doesn’t work out (touch wood) both the financial and opportunity costs are much higher. It’s clearly higher risk.

And it isn’t just more money = more risk. Haaland had a release clause and only cost £60-odd million. Yet clearly at that money he was a lower risk compared to paying £20m for Amad for example, who had barely played top flight football when signed.

You clearly misintepreted the opinion because you were the one who said this signing is a high risk. And I made a point that it shouldn't be matter anyway because high reward usually come from high risk, which the meaning is the signing might have high risk but if ten Hag can get the best out of him then we can get high reward of signing world class potential instead. Hence what I like about ten Hag at ajax developing players.

First off you don’t even know if Ten Hag wants that type of player or Felix in particular. He is the one who signed Haller (he had coached him previously at Utretcht) at Ajax and as you noted he isn’t exactly Bergkamp-style. You’re saying to put my faith in Ten Hag with such (potential) signing as if it’s Ten Hag’s choice to bring such a player. It isn’t, it’s yours. If Ten Hag chooses him, then we can talk about that.

Secondly, developing young players is one thing. But it’s better to develop them in low pressure environments without placing all your expectations on them or setting them up to fail. The Netherlands were such an environment. Felix already seems to not be coping too well with the level of expectation and price tag at Madrid. The coach might be trying to play different football here than Simeone is playing there, but the pressure and expectation… it won’t be too much different here at United. In fact it’s likely to be worse given how much of a fiercer competition for top spots the EPL is.

Whether ten Hag wants Felix or no is not really how the argument started though. You have no right to tell me not to talk about it. You were the one who jumped into my conversation, so you should have never jump into this conversation.

I raised a valid argument about how Bergkamp type of striker could benefit both Rashford and Antony, even though I am not in agreement or disagreement about this but as neutral perspective I see it as valid argument because I witnessed how Rashford looks better when playing with Martial while Liverpool won the league with Firmino to get the best out of Mane and Salah.

This valid argument is also aligned with ten Hag knows how to use formation with Bergkamp type of striker as he played Tadic in a role of false 9 where the striker offers more creativity and link up. And I see Felix to be developed world class in the same role or type of striker, and this is aligned with what I view in ten Hag's asset in developing players. It looks to me that you are not so convinced that ten Hag has the ability to develop players.

 

[Mainoldo]

I don't really have a opinion on Felix, because I haven't really seen him play often. But is there cause for concern with Felix if we take into account what the tweets below from a regular observer of La Liga is saying?

This. Everyone keep saying we can’t afford him. It’s like us telling clubs they can’t afford Harry Maguire.

 

[Wayne's World]

He's a bit like Coutinho at Inter stage. He has obvious talent but unless he gets out of Atletico that will never happen. Coutinho only fully developed when he moved to Liverpool and became a superstar and I think his career would go down the same path.

 

[Remember the geese]

He's a bit like Coutinho at Inter stage. He has obvious talent but unless he gets out of Atletico that will never happen. Coutinho only fully developed when he moved to Liverpool and became a superstar and I think his career would go down the same path.

The problem is that Atletico will want a stupid fee for Felix in contrast to the €13m Liverpool paid for Coutinho.

 

[Mainoldo]

The problem is that Atletico will want a stupid fee for Felix in contrast to the €13m Liverpool paid for Coutinho.

The reality is he wants the leave. They want him out and nobody is paying over £70m for him. So there’s a big problem there that only they can fix.

Therefore it’s not really a problem is it.

 

[dhadz]

I’m not really sure on him, he has such a big reputation but every time I see him (grantedly not that often) he seems to be a bit of a recluse on the pitch. With that in mind though I see massive potential in him and could see him, rashford and Antony linking up well

 

[Bondi77]

The only reason why people think he is worth a fortune is because Atletico paid a fortune for him and it has been proven he is not as good as what they thought he would be.
Look at it in the cold light of day and base it on what he has done so far and then add a little on for potential as that can go north or south and then put a value on him.
Why oh why do people continually get carried away with the next 'Big Thing' before they have done feck all!

 

[davidmichael]

The whole “he’ll cost a fortune because Atletico paid X for him” thing is silly really as we paid £80 million for Maguire but would be lucky to see see a third of that neck or Pogba who we paid £89 million for and could get anyone to pay for at all, if a player doesn’t work out at all then just because you paid a lot for him doesn’t mean you get a large part of it back in resale.

Personally I think Felix would be great in an ETH system as he’s far more suited to ETH than anything Simeone would go with and at the age Felix is I think ETH could coach him in the way he wants him to be even more, personally I’d go with a 6 month loan from Atletico with his wages paid in full by us in January as I’m sure the rules are he can play in Europa and assess Felix then and if it doesn’t work then nothing lost but we don’t outlay a massive fee.

 

[RedRonaldo]

The whole “he’ll cost a fortune because Atletico paid X for him” thing is silly really as we paid £80 million for Maguire but would be lucky to see see a third of that neck or Pogba who we paid £89 million for and could get anyone to pay for at all, if a player doesn’t work out at all then just because you paid a lot for him doesn’t mean you get a large part of it back in resale.

Personally I think Felix would be great in an ETH system as he’s far more suited to ETH than anything Simeone would go with and at the age Felix is I think ETH could coach him in the way he wants him to be even more, personally I’d go with a 6 month loan from Atletico with his wages paid in full by us in January as I’m sure the rules are he can play in Europa and assess Felix then and if it doesn’t work then nothing lost but we don’t outlay a massive fee.

I don't think Maguire is a good example due to age/talent factor. Sancho though would be a good comparison (age/talent wise). Would we willing to let him go for a loan and recoup as little as half of his original fee (say around 40m)? I think it would be very difficult for us to agree with that.

 

[Idxomer]

Came on from the bench to score a great goal again today.

 

[Rozay]

Such a beautiful technician. Hope he’s in Manchester before Atleti or Simeone realise what fools they have been.

 

[davidmichael]

Came on from the bench to score a great goal again today.

Came off the bench in midweek and scored twice too didn’t he ? I think based on what I have seen of Felix he simply isn’t a Simeone player, you can imagine if he played for Barca or Real he’d be more let of the leash but Atletico are a proper grind a result out type of team that are all about strict tactics.

He seems very good off the ball too which with how fecking statuesque Ronaldo is would be a joy to watch, for anyone who HAS watched a lot of him how good is Felix and linking play or running in behind ? I see that he likes to drift out left like Martial so could Felix do the alternating thing with Rashford like Rashford and Martial have often done ?

 

[pocco]

Came off the bench in midweek and scored twice too didn’t he ? I think based on what I have seen of Felix he simply isn’t a Simeone player, you can imagine if he played for Barca or Real he’d be more let of the leash but Atletico are a proper grind a result out type of team that are all about strict tactics.

He seems very good off the ball too which with how fecking statuesque Ronaldo is would be a joy to watch, for anyone who HAS watched a lot of him how good is Felix and linking play or running in behind ? I see that he likes to drift out left like Martial so could Felix do the alternating thing with Rashford like Rashford and Martial have often done ?

He's very good. For me, one of the best talents currently in that sort of position. I've named him as one of my number 1 signings for a long time in that position. I actually thought City would sign him, but Haaland hasn't worked out too badly to be fair.

He's just a pretty complete footballer in my opinion. Technically very good, can link up to a high level, good at carrying the ball, good in front of goal (hasn't scored loads so far but I think there's a lot of untapped potential there and he'll explode for the right team). He's also a fighter and, in spite of his relatively small stature, he's good at holding up play and playing that false 9 type of role.

I think all the talent is there for him to be moulded into whatever type of player a manager needs. I've always said he's completely wasted at Atletico.

 

[kaku06]

No.1 priority for me to be honest. If we can land him for 70-80m, it would be a steal really. Anyone with decent pair of eyes can see how much technical and talented the kid is. If we are going for a fluid type of no. 9 then break the bank for him. Ronaldo is dead food and Martial is a ghost.

 

[Member 125352]

What is his best position cause I can’t tell.
nr 9 but he scores no goals
nr 10 but we have Bruno
nr 7 or 11 but we have Rashford, Sancho and Antony there

We have seen the last few games that Bruno at 50% is even better than Donny, we simply need his workrate, does Felix offer workrate or is he simply a technical trickster who only plays when he receives the ball?

 

[croadyman]

Has he got that workrate and fighting spirit

 

[Oaencha]

The only reason why people think he is worth a fortune is because Atletico paid a fortune for him and it has been proven he is not as good as what they thought he would be.
Look at it in the cold light of day and base it on what he has done so far and then add a little on for potential as that can go north or south and then put a value on him.
Why oh why do people continually get carried away with the next 'Big Thing' before they have done feck all!

Put perfectly. He is not someone we need.

 

[lenny_1248]

To whoever believed there is a chance:

 

[davidmichael]

To whoever believed there is a chance:

Isn’t this guy completely all over the place with stories on us ? Said we had a good chance of signing Bellingham in the summer as well as Oshimen, Frimpong, Trapp and others ?

 

[ForeverRed1]

If we could get him on loan In January with the option to buy in the summer I don’t see why it wouldn’t be a great deal. See how he fares and what he brings, would also help us out massively with all the games we got coming up. We got to be smart with loans and players coming out of contract, we need 6/7 players.

 

[croadyman]

If we could get him on loan In January with the option to buy in the summer I don’t see why it wouldn’t be a great deal. See how he fares and what he brings, would also help us out massively with all the games we got coming up. We got to be smart with loans and players coming out of contract, we need 6/7 players.

Just doesn't seem a remotely realistic possibility

 

[ForeverRed1]

Just doesn't seem a remotely realistic possibility

Hes not doing well at athletico at all, him and simeone don’t get on. Who’s going to spend what they want on him? If he is loaned out it will save them the issues and the wages. If lukaku can happen then so can this guy imo.

 

[Chairman Steve]

He’s going to be like £70m maximum in my opinion. Atletico aren’t really in a strong position to demand close to the £110m they paid for him. Barely made double figures in goals in the three seasons he’s been there. They need to take the hit especially if his wages are fecking with their FFP (£250k a week is it?) and they need to reinvest with the bad season they’re currently having.

 

[VorZakone]

Why hasn't it worked out for him at Atletico?

 

[ThierryHenry14]

He’s going to be like £70m maximum in my opinion. Atletico aren’t really in a strong position to demand close to the £110m they paid for him. Barely made double figures in goals in the three seasons he’s been there. They need to take the hit especially if his wages are fecking with their FFP (£250k a week is it?) and they need to reinvest with the bad season they’re currently having.

Loan to buy option probably is the best for both parties. The buying club can reduce the risk for such a big fee, and Atletico can probably recoup most of the fee if the loan deal works out well.

 

[UnitedSofa]

Just doesn't seem a remotely realistic possibility

A significantly large portion of the forum said the same about Casemiro

 

[SportingCP96]

Could of had a hattrick in the last game.

One of the chances in particular created by him was world class.

Ball falls to him in the box most would probably shoot it but he fakes the shot and skins two defenders in the process only for the keeper to do a fantastic save.

If someone can provide that GIF some how but it’s in the highlights of the game.

Quite simply put he’s not an atlético style of player.

I’ve said it before but him in man city with guardiola Bernardo and cancelo would be pornographic to say the least.

 

[Rampant Red Rodriguez]

Would love him as a CR7 replacement and with us still getting a unit of a Cfwd. Be 2 very good options up front, and 0.5 option in Martial. 2.5

 

[redcucumber]

Could of had a hattrick in the last game.

One of the chances in particular created by him was world class.

Ball falls to him in the box most would probably shoot it but he fakes the shot and skins two defenders in the process only for the keeper to do a fantastic save.

If someone can provide that GIF some how but it’s in the highlights of the game.

Quite simply put he’s not an atlético style of player.

I’ve said it before but him in man city with guardiola Bernardo and cancelo would be pornographic to say the least.

City have got Haaland! Pretty much impossible to get better than that.

 

[SportingCP96]

City have got Haaland! Pretty much impossible to get better than that.

Well cf course!

I’m just saying if they had not j think he would of been great option for them

 

[izec]

Should be our main transfer target. Seriously, we should push the limit with him.

 

[TheNewEra]

Should be our main transfer target. Seriously, we should push the limit with him.

He's a top player but if he's the main main in the EPL? United have big problems breaking down low block teams as it is. Would Joao Felix solve that?

 

[croadyman]

A significantly large portion of the forum said the same about Casemiro

That was never touted as loan deal though

 

[croadyman]

He's a top player but if he's the main main in the EPL? United have big problems breaking down low block teams as it is. Would Joao Felix solve that?

Yeah I just worry where are the goals coming from

 

[CannonBalls]

Although it would never happen, I have a feeling he could do well at Arsenal.

 

[SportingCP96]

This talent is being wasted in atlético, it’s clear as day.

 

[Mickeza]

He’s not even in the squad tonight unless whoscored are lying. Could be injured I guess.

 

[JohnnyLaw]

He’s not even in the squad tonight unless whoscored are lying. Could be injured I guess.

Suspended it seems.

 

[Mickeza]

Suspended it seems.

Ah! How!? He barely plays

 

[davidmichael]

This talent is being wasted in atlético, it’s clear as day.

What I liked most from that was Felix’s ability to link play, to hold the ball up and also his desire to turn and drive at the opposition as fast as possible.

He looks much stronger than I thought he was too in that video, very fast feet as well. I think as a 6 month loan with us paying his wages and maybe an option to buy at a set price in the summer he’d be the best option for us in January.